zero degree drill angle works!!

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littleJOEYrimshot
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zero degree drill angle works!!

Post by littleJOEYrimshot »

as ball tester/reviewer for the Bowlers journal, I have the luxury of testing each new ball with both a base layout and one of my choice. my base layout is a 60x4.5x40 to best compare each product VS each product with the same matched layout. For xotic layouts I have used 70x6x10, 60x3x10, 20x7x50, 60x1x20 and so on. the layout of choice for the new Lane One Stealth Bomber pearl is a 0x6 1/8x48 for tester Ryan Jastroch. Ryan has a 500-540 rev rate, 10-13 tilt and 25-70 rotation range. he can also manipulate his speed 3 mph with consistency. watch the youtube video t view his zero degree drilling angle in action.

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Re: zero degree drill angle works!!

Post by Mo Pinel »

littleJOEYrimshot wrote:as ball tester/reviewer for the Bowlers journal, I have the luxury of testing each new ball with both a base layout and one of my choice. my base layout is a 60x4.5x40 to best compare each product VS each product with the same matched layout. For xotic layouts I have used 70x6x10, 60x3x10, 20x7x50, 60x1x20 and so on. the layout of choice for the new Lane One Stealth Bomber pearl is a 0x6 1/8x48 for tester Ryan Jastroch. Ryan has a 500-540 rev rate, 10-13 tilt and 25-70 rotation range. he can also manipulate his speed 3 mph with consistency. watch the youtube video t view his zero degree drilling angle in action.

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joe cerar
No reason it shouldn't work! I set the 10* minimum drilling angle to make sure the migrating PAP had to cross the pin to PAP line. Just a safety feature.
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Re: zero degree drill angle works!!

Post by littleJOEYrimshot »

and if it doesn't cross the line?
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Re: zero degree drill angle works!!

Post by steve s »

The zero drill angle has been use for a long time ....Remember the ole blue hammer with the cg on the pap and the 9 inch weight hole..? I understand the learning we have made since then about the mass bias being near the thumb hole....The lay out has been used on several different balls with a built in m/b though ...I have never had a ball that didn't work as planned when it was used....It seems to create a strong back end reaction ....compared to other layouts on the same ball.....Maybe I have always just hit the right val angle to complement it....by luck....Steve S
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Re: zero degree drill angle works!!

Post by JohnP »

littleJOEYrimshot wrote:and if it doesn't cross the line?
There may be other reasons besides this. -- JohnP

From: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6766&view=unread#unread" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I try to make sure the PAP of the migrating axis goes past the pin to PSA line. This helps the ball to rev up more easily on the back end of the lane
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Re: zero degree drill angle works!!

Post by The Kid »

littleJOEYrimshot wrote:and if it doesn't cross the line?
The rev rate increases as it crosses the pin-to-spin line. This is because the minor axis of each RG contour (and, most importantly, the RG contour for the PAP) is on pin-to-spin line. For objects in "orbit" (the PAP), their speed increases from the minor axis of the orbit until it passes the major axis of the orbit. (An ellipse is like a flattened circle. If you draw a crosshair in an ellipse with one long line and one short line, the longer line is the major axis and the shorter line is the minor axis.)

If the PAP doesn't cross the pin-to-spin line, then it never gets the "boost." In fact, if you completely ignore the effect of friction (and any other factor), then the rev rate would actually slow down if it didn't cross the pin-to-spin line. But, it will definitely rev up whether or not it does cross the line, but only because of friction.
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Re: zero degree drill angle works!!

Post by TH58PZ700U »

Forgive my ignorance but could this not be used by people like me who see too much over/under with most modern cover stocks? I could see this helping decrease the crazy flip I see as the ball transitions by reducing the rotational rev up, thus decreasing the total rev up I see when the ball encounters friction.

If I'm correct, how sensitive is the pin length and Val angle when the drilling angle is taken out of the equation?
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Re: zero degree drill angle works!!

Post by elgavachon »

TH58PZ700U wrote:Forgive my ignorance but could this not be used by people like me who see too much over/under with most modern cover stocks? I could see this helping decrease the crazy flip I see as the ball transitions by reducing the rotational rev up, thus decreasing the total rev up I see when the ball encounters friction.

If I'm correct, how sensitive is the pin length and Val angle when the drilling angle is taken out of the equation?
I may be wrong here since I am only guessing, but i don't think you are taking anything out of the equation. You still have a pin to spin line (between Pin and PSA). The VAL angle will raise or lower the rg and total differential of the drilled ball. What you are doing with low Drill Angle Layouts is determining how soon the ball will stop sliding and start hooking. (Not good for low tilt & dry lanes)
A lower ratio will help the over under reaction you are talking about. I think you will get basically the same results using the 10* drill angle as your minimum (just in case your PAP changes a little or you have it mis-marked).
Since you sometimes have 25* of tilt and 70* of rotation, a small drill angle will probably be something you like in your arsenal. If I understand what you are saying by "rev-up", it will just happen sooner. Not going to help on drier conditions (especially when you are using 15* tilt and 30* rotation).
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Re: zero degree drill angle works!!

Post by The Kid »

TH58PZ700U wrote:Forgive my ignorance but could this not be used by people like me who see too much over/under with most modern cover stocks? I could see this helping decrease the crazy flip I see as the ball transitions by reducing the rotational rev up, thus decreasing the total rev up I see when the ball encounters friction.

If I'm correct, how sensitive is the pin length and Val angle when the drilling angle is taken out of the equation?
Are you talking about using a 0* drilling angle or not crossing the pin-to-spin line?

A 0* drilling angle, if your PAP is correct, would rev up as early as possible and the most possible (everything else equal). It's only when your PAP starts left of the pin-to-spin line (Negative Drilling Angle) that you don't get the full effect of the increased rev up. It will still rev up, just not as much- basically decreasing the total flare.

If you really wanted to take the drilling angle out of the equation, you would have to use a very large drilling angle (90*+). Not always a safe bet with where you'll flare.
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Re: zero degree drill angle works!!

Post by odddood »

with 500 rev off course it work try it on 200 rev lol. Also would work but he won't use it very much
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Re: zero degree drill angle works!!

Post by TH58PZ700U »

The Kid wrote: Are you talking about using a 0* drilling angle or not crossing the pin-to-spin line?

A 0* drilling angle, if your PAP is correct, would rev up as early as possible and the most possible (everything else equal). It's only when your PAP starts left of the pin-to-spin line (Negative Drilling Angle) that you don't get the full effect of the increased rev up. It will still rev up, just not as much- basically decreasing the total flare.

If you really wanted to take the drilling angle out of the equation, you would have to use a very large drilling angle (90*+). Not always a safe bet with where you'll flare.
I have a ball with a 115* drilling angle that works well on the right house shot, I should also remeasure my specs because my tilt is lower, my rotation is lower and my speed is lower.

Here's my reasoning, someone please point out where its wrong so I can understand. My PAP is 5 right 1/2 up, with a ball drilled 0 x 5-1/2 x 55, low top weight, I have the cg near enough to the grip to not need a balance hole, assume asymmetric, the PSA starts right of the PAP. Because the PAP starts on the pin to spin line, assuming a repeated release, it will never cross the line and get the rotational boost from doing so. It will still migrate along the RG contour and if the release misses and the PAP is inside the line, no difference?

What I'm asking is can we use a zero or negative drilling angle to effectively negate the effect of the migrating PAP crossing the pin to spin line and receiving a boost to the rev rate. By controlling the VAL angle and using a long pin, I can also force the ball to shed tilt early and smooth out the hook phase.

Something tells me I could also achieve a very similar effect by using a balance hole that's excessively large on the PAP, maybe even the PSA on the PAP and effectively diminish the precession that occurs during flare and just ignore the effect of the migrating PAP axis. Or maybe I'm losing it and need to get more sleep. But I do think there's a way to negate certain rotational effects to modify ball reaction with layout and balance holes.
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Re: zero degree drill angle works!!

Post by Mo Pinel »

0* drilling angle used to be called "axis leverage". In the AMF XS drilling instructions, I also added "flip axis leverage", which was axis leverage with a small VAL angle. It's amazing how accurate that was almost two decades ago.
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Re: zero degree drill angle works!!

Post by elgavachon »

Mo Pinel wrote:0* drilling angle used to be called "axis leverage". In the AMF XS drilling instructions, I also added "flip axis leverage", which was axis leverage with a small VAL angle. It's amazing how accurate that was almost two decades ago.
I am totally amazed at how accurate Mo's observations have been through out the years. I think most of his original theorys (for lack of a better word) were all done with the naked eye and trial and error. Remember, he didn't have all the information at his fingertips which we have now.(Most drillers were still using CG placement as the #1 variable along with static imbalances on the dodo scale)
LittleJoeyRimShot should take a bow also. TRAIL BLAZERS. Along with Blueprint and MathIsTruth.
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Re: zero degree drill angle works!!

Post by The Kid »

TH58PZ700U wrote: Here's my reasoning, someone please point out where its wrong so I can understand. My PAP is 5 right 1/2 up, with a ball drilled 0 x 5-1/2 x 55, low top weight, I have the cg near enough to the grip to not need a balance hole, assume asymmetric, the PSA starts right of the PAP. Because the PAP starts on the pin to spin line, assuming a repeated release, it will never cross the line and get the rotational boost from doing so. It will still migrate along the RG contour and if the release misses and the PAP is inside the line, no difference?

What I'm asking is can we use a zero or negative drilling angle to effectively negate the effect of the migrating PAP crossing the pin to spin line and receiving a boost to the rev rate. By controlling the VAL angle and using a long pin, I can also force the ball to shed tilt early and smooth out the hook phase.

Something tells me I could also achieve a very similar effect by using a balance hole that's excessively large on the PAP, maybe even the PSA on the PAP and effectively diminish the precession that occurs during flare and just ignore the effect of the migrating PAP axis. Or maybe I'm losing it and need to get more sleep. But I do think there's a way to negate certain rotational effects to modify ball reaction with layout and balance holes.
Let me go back a step to be clear on my understanding of RG contours and the pin-to-spin line:

I start with the assumption that everything else is equal.
If the PAP is in "orbit" along its RG contour (which is an ellipse), then it will change how fast it migrates as it migrates- this means that the rev rate will change as the PAP migrates.
Because the RG contour is an ellipse, the PAP will migrate slowest at the minor axis of the ellipse and the fastest at the major axis of the ellipse.
Therefore, its migration "speed" (the rev rate) increases after crossing the minor axis until it reaches the major axis. After this, the migration speed decreases until crossing the other side of the minor axis.
The pin-to-spin line is the minor axis of the RG contour, so the rev rate begins to increase when the PAP migrates past the pin-to-spin line. It continues to increase until it gets another 90* (6 3/4") around the ball (to the major axis of the RG contour).

Real world conclusion: Using a 0* or lower drilling angle doesn't negate the boost. The rev rate will increase still. When using a 90* drilling angle, the ball starts off in it's "fastest" state (ignoring friction, which we can't really do) with the PAP on the major axis of the RG contour. The rev rate then decreases (ignoring friction, again) until it reaches the pin-to-spin line, where it revs up.

If you were to use a negative drilling angle, I think you would still have to use -90* to best negate the effect of the drilling angle. That's not really reasonable though.

Best bet: use a symmetrical ball (so that the drilling angle matters less) or a 90* drilling angle on an asymmetric. Symmetricals also shed tilt quicker and are smoother anyway.
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Re: zero degree drill angle works!!

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littleJOEYrimshot wrote: October 14th, 2012, 2:21 am " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;FM WhatsApp

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Cool.
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