Lefty vs Righty

[Triplicate]

YOU CAN'T HAVE INTEGRITY WITHOUT EQUALITY!!

I'm going to add to this thread since this point has not yet been covered. I think I know why also.

One dictionary says... •Integrity as a concept has to do with perceived consistency of actions, values, methods, measures, principles, expectations and outcome. People use integrity as a holistic concept, judging the integrity of systems in terms of those systems' ability to achieve their own goals (if any).

So bottom line is Bowling will NEVER achieve integrity without the ability to be fair to everyone. I can't think of any other sport that has the problem Bowling has since it's inception.

So what's wrong?? I'll tell you what's wrong in my viewpoint...

1. It's impossible to provide the same conditions to everyone.

We play on a oil covered environment and what has been mentioned all through this thread, and what we all agree on is that it's the "oil" can make or take away your ability to score.

It's the "oil" that moves, breaks down, wears out, changes, opens up the lane, goes away, tightens up, fill in the blank.............. you can surely add to this list as to what oil is responsible for in our sport.

It's the "oil" variables that drives ball selection, where you play, the speed you throw and all the adjustments you have to make to try to score well.

It's a simple fact that the less the "oil" moves the greater your chances/abilities are to score well.

Now here is where I"m going with this if you have not yet figured it out for yourself.... We have both left and right handed players.

Now we have unfair playing conditions. Clearly the left side that gets less traffic with less "oil" movement, breakdown, change, inconsistency, goofiness etc. thus the lefties, like it or not have a tremendous advantage!

This point is not even worth arguing about. It's a no win situation. It's simply the way it is and as such we can never achieve equality or integrity.

I'm a right hander who knows what it's like to be a leftie. I just get a pair of lanes for myself in practice and get line up and strike at will. Really! It's boring.

As a left hander, do you know what it's like to be a rightie? Answer: You will Never know until you get a a pair with 9 other lefties and bowl three games.

I can go on but first some responses if you care to do so.

Thus... integrity is impossible to achieve. (now stepping down from podium)

[russelldean]

"Clearly the left side that gets less traffic with less "oil" movement, breakdown, change, inconsistency, goofiness etc. thus the lefties, like it or not have a tremendous advantage!"
This is only true on house conditions. Being lefthanded on sports patterns, is usually a disadvantage. The amount of oil put down for todays balls, makes finding a hookspot on the left impossible on some of those conditions. The right side almost always breaks the lane down, and opens it up. Advantage on house conditions= Who cares. It is too easy on both sides. As far as reigning in the balls, good luck. The politics is the main obstacle. This really needs to start on the tournament level. The foundation games were on the right track. Just need to get other associations on board.

[Triplicate]

Quote from Triplicate "Clearly the left side that gets less traffic with less "oil" movement, breakdown, change, inconsistency, goofiness etc. thus the lefties, like it or not have a tremendous advantage!"

This is only true on house conditions.

Only on house conditions!!!!! Not True at all. All the houses I've bowled in over the years have a few left handers and some clearly are not good bowlers. Yet, when you look at the top 10 averages it's mostly lefties.

Being left handed on sports patterns, is usually a disadvantage. The amount of oil put down for todays balls, makes finding a hookspot on the left impossible on some of those conditions. The right side almost always breaks the lane down, and opens it up.

I would agree. Don't forget 1 or 2% of bowling is on sports patterns so here is where "who cares" really applies.

Advantage on house conditions= Who cares. It is too easy on both sides.

Once again you're misinformed. Everyone cares except the moonlighter and the recreational bowler. Everyone whos competitive cares. The left side will not break down and they may not move all night. The right side gets worse starting from the middle of the first game with totally dries out in the third game. Don't think I haven't seen lefties stand on the same spot and throw at the same area with the same ball all night long. This is unheard of on the right during house conditions.

In Tournaments it's a joke. The lefties start off with a fresh shot while the right side breaks down from traffic already in the first game. By the 4th game the lefties are still getting a fresh shot with every lane move while the right handers have to deal with continuous transition. Many times in match play their still landing on fresh oil. Oh, there are times when some other leftie has bowled on that pair for one game.

TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY UNFAIR SO, ONCE AGAIN, NO INTEGRITY!

[ibyz]

This talk of Left-hand / right-hand makes me think of a scratch tournament I was in a few years back.

There were only three lefties (accomplished players) entered in the tournament. They drew the same pair and subsequently stayed together throughout qualifying.

They were not at all happy about it and weren't timid in letting it be known. They said it was a "conspiracy" and didn't play to their ability because they were so upset.

Does the heavier traffic on the left make a difference? They sure thought it did.

The way they carried on was pretty funny to us guys on the right.

[guruU2]

Bowling was, unfairly, a right handed game until some key lanesmen figured out how to block the lanes and lefties such as Eddie Brickell, out of Texas, Jerry McCoy, and Dave Davis started to make some noise. Since then, it has been. . . .[fair]?

[glssmn2001]

Being left handed I have heard it all, while some of it is true, I do not think it has any bearing on the integrity of the sport. If you are serious about your game, your goal as a bowler in PBA events and a left handed bowler stands less of a chance on those patterns alone than with a few other right handed bowlers on the lanes.

Oddly enough, I bowl on a team which has 3 left handed bowler and the small 9 team has quite a few left handed guys. There are two occasions when we bowl certain team that there are more left than right handed bowlers. Two things I notice on these nights, the left handed bowlers I bowl with and against ( @200 average) struggle to move inside, but the right handed bowlers who you would assume to be "lighting it up" usually do not. Is this enough to compiles tons of data, nope, but in my mind in renders the left vs. right argument a non-issue.

[Triplicate]

Being left handed I have heard it all, while some of it is true, I do not think it has any bearing on the integrity of the sport. If you are serious about your game, your goal as a bowler in PBA events and a left handed bowler stands less of a chance on those patterns alone than with a few other right handed bowlers on the lanes.

Oddly enough, I bowl on a team which has 3 left handed bowler and the small 9 team has quite a few left handed guys. There are two occasions when we bowl certain team that there are more left than right handed bowlers. Two things I notice on these nights, the left handed bowlers I bowl with and against ( @200 average) struggle to move inside, but the right handed bowlers who you would assume to be "lighting it up" usually do not. Is this enough to compiles tons of data, nope, but in my mind in renders the left vs. right argument a non-issue.

I appreciate you sharing your opinions and being a spokes person form the left.

I'm also well aware of the PBA lefties vs righties issues. They learned a long time ago you can't dress the lanes the same on both sides and expect to proclaim things are now equal/fair. When the PBA puts down oil the left and right sides are, and should be, completely different patterns and volumes. This is their "attempt" to "even out" the two sides. This has proven extremely difficult to achieve and/or repeat. Some times they just open up the left side and you have an all leftie stepladder final. The fact that they do this is clear evidence that it's not an even playing field for all.

The problem is that house leagues put out the same pattern (block, crown) equally on both sides, without consideration of the fewer number of lefties and/or the much higher traffic on right. Local Tournaments do the same. This is where it's unfair.

This very much affects integrity because of the two very different scoring environments and circumstances.

What would happen if your have a tournament for 100 bowlers and said "We're going to take a small group over to house A and they will bowl on our THS. The remainder of our group will bowl in house B with a 45 foot sport shot. We will then compile all the scores and determine the finalists" What would happen? Yet we think its ok to do this with two completely differnt scoring environments/conditions on each side of the lane and pretend to proceed with blinders on thinking nothing about it!!! This is so obvious yet we've been conditioned to accept this as fair?? Give you head a shake! It's not fair under any circumstances so how is integrity possible here?

Can you or anyone name me another sport that left handed vs right handed makes a big difference such as it does now in Bowling?

Golf?, no makes no difference. Basketball?, nope, doesn't matter, Pool, nope, Baseball, nope. Chess, nope here also. Maybe football, naa. Swimming, Track and Field, fishing... nope, nope, nope. I can't think of a single one.

This is why, from it's conception, bowling has never been a level playing field since oil has been involved. I say this because if you take all the oil off the lane, and you have a new lane, then and only then can you say it's equal on both sides. Add the oil again and all bets are off.

It's a real problem people. Get you heads out of the sand if you think otherwise. But hey, maybe I've got it all wrong.

[nomore4s]

The other advantage the lefties have is most of the time they tend to play the same areas with similar type shots.

Maybe if the right-handers were smarter and played together to open the lanes up instead of destroying the lanes for each other we might not hear the righties whinge so much?

One more note on short and long conditions, the problem of playing long and short is somewhat different for men and women. Traditionally the women break down lanes together in the track area (7-12 board) and the graphs taken afterwards show the lane to almost be blocked after bowling.

When men bowl the whole middle of the lane oil pattern is destroyed in the front of the lane and narrows down to six or seven boards at the end. This works well on the long pattern but, on the short it is a disaster for scoring pace and the women usually outscore the men.

For the long the opposite is usually true. The women will still break down the track 4-5 boards away from the true best area to play and the men will outscore the women on the long, but not always.

http://www.kegel.net/library/foArticles.asp?iKodYazi=2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

While the above quote is taken from an article about long & short oil patterns it does highlight the fact that bowlers playing the same areas can in fact open the lanes up and increase scoring pace on certain conditions.

I always find this debate between left & right amusing as it is one of the many challenges of our sport, the fact is certain patterns and lane conditions are going to suit certain bowlers (left or right handed) while other bowlers are going to struggle on the same conditions, it is part of the uniqueness of our sport. You are never ever going to get an even playing field for all contestants in this sport, imo it is part of the sport and what makes versatility such an important factor.

Anyway if you aren't happy bowling on the right you can always change hands or bowl back up

(Please note most of this post is tongue in cheek and I just enjoy giving some back to the righties)

[russelldean]

Triplicate,
I am not missinformed. I speak from experience. You keep talking about the top bowlers in the house. Once again HOUSE PATERN. Does the left have an advantage on the house shot? Yes. Do top bowlers in your area bowl for significant money on house shots? They don't often in mine. If you are tired of being beat up by inferior lefties, move up to the next level. There are bigger issues with bowlings integrity, then left to right. The disadvantage on a top level, is and has been on the left for a few years now.

[spillup24]

My question is that if the lack of integrity bothers you so much then why to you keep playing? If I was so against something as you are than I would definitely stop participating in it.

[glssmn2001]

As for how the PBA dresses their lanes I have no evidence that they dress the lanes differently from side to side so I can not comment on that. I wish not to speculate on that issue, could it happen sure.

As for house leagues and tournaments, I tend to look at it differently. The left side is what it is, good or bad. If it is good than fine, our/my shot will not break down as fast or as much and I/we will not have to move as much. If it is bad, than it is bad all night long and it never changes. I do not call foul, or say it is unfair, I search for that spot and hit it as best I can. I wish I could get the lanes to open up like the right side, for years I have watched right handed bowler get an area to bowl upon where I have a couple boards. I live in the Detroit area and all the best bowler I know (230+ averages) are right handed. Why is that ????? Lack of left handed bowlers, maybe, I tend to think it has to do with patterns and how they break down and transition.

I bowl in tournament on sports conditions, that is all as of right now. Now it has been said that left handed bowler have a dis-advantage on sport, I agree. I have cashed in half the tournament and have never won though. Should I ask them to dress the lanes differently on my side ?????? Where is the integrity in that.........

As for other sports and its difference in handedness, Golf- I guess it depends on which way it dog legs and if you can better hit fades or draws. You see it does make some difference. How about baseball, left vs. right makes a huge difference. This is why they keep separate average stat categories on the subject. This is also why you see relief pitches warming up for 15 minutes to pitch to one guy, because the left vs right come into play. We have not even gotten into trying to play third base or shortstop left handed, have you tried it, I have think about it. You have to pirouette around just to throw the ball to first. It make a difference and throwing out runners is difficult at best.

While comparing the sports and left and right handedness, you have overlooked on major thing. You are trying to compare professional athletes in every other sport to local amateur bowlers, bowling on the easiest of patterns. Apples to oranges, maybe, some would say.

Is it a problem, I say no. If anything is a problem it is the right handed bowlers thinking the left side has it so much easier, and the head games begin. If your are beat mentally than do not eve bother rolling the ball, just go home. You will not win.

There are two sides to every coin, and while you do not have all wrong, you are looking at it from one side......

[crazyjim]

I do not worry about who has the better shot when I bowl I just try to be the best player on the pair that day....

[elgavachon]

I think they should allow you to switch from one hand to the other at will. If you think there is an advantage on a particular day you could switch hands.

[cheech]

i havent read the entire thread but here is my perspective on oil movement as a lefty. you can say m not a typical lefty, my coaches have called me a lefty that thinks like a righty. i like to get in and wheel it when possible but also can play the twig and anywhere in between. i do admit in a regular house league i would say leftys have the advantage of less traffic and transition. an easy pattern where you can strike at will on the fresh wont change much if there is only 1 maybe 2 lefties on the pair. there also have been times where there were 7 or 8 lefties on my pair and i did see quite a bit of transition. i did score a little lower because i was thrown off guard but i didnt complain like righties do. transition is part of bowling and if you have been bowling leagues for 20-30 years righties should be used to this by now. transition makes it tougher but it is still just a house shot so it shouldnt be that hard to score still. pretty much the only move you have to make in chasing the oil in and making the proper ball adjustments to play the different angles.

now on sport shots it is a completely different story. this is coming mostly from college team tournaments where you bowl 6 team games in a day. in this environment i actually think righties have an advantage. on the fresh pattern there is obviously less room for error than the house shot. if a lefty cannot find a look he is often stuck grinding for 4 out of the 6 games because he is one of the only left handed players breaking down the pattern on that side of the lane. if the righties cannot find a look on the fresh pattern they can easily work together to create a dry area within a game or 2. this makes the pattern considerably easier for them for the remaining 4 games and they can use this to their advantage over the lefties. another thing to consider is that when the left side finally breaks down, the righties are usually in playing 4-5th arrown crossing the left side of the heads making my ball read early and dying downlane where there is still oil. then when i move into 4th arrown there is no head oil on the right side so i cannot get anyhting through the heads. my only option is to move all the way back on the gutter.

in conclusion i think each hand has their advantages but i think lefties get more of the criticism because to the average bowler who only bowls house leagues they get the advantage more of the time.

[bilbojankins]

Where I am from there are quite a lot of left handers, my wednesday night league you average 2-3 lefties a night and on the rare night 4-5 a pair. (3 person teams) I cant stand in the same spot all night but do admit I probably don't move more then 6 boards in a night.

Dang this coming week I will have to bowl with 4 on the pair should be fun. I am one of the lefties that other lefties hate because they tell me I mess up there lines idk who cares lol. Right handers around here average better, have more area left and right, and win more tournaments so I dont really see anyone having the advantage, you still have to make shots.

[Triplicate]

Triplicate,
I am not missinformed. I speak from experience. You keep talking about the top bowlers in the house. Once again HOUSE PATERN. Does the left have an advantage on the house shot? Yes. Do top bowlers in your area bowl for significant money on house shots? They don't often in mine. If you are tired of being beat up by inferior lefties, move up to the next level. There are bigger issues with bowlings integrity, then left to right. The disadvantage on a top level, is and has been on the left for a few years now.

Yes, our leagues with THS do have a lot of money involved. We're talking the Detroit area here and yes there are a lot of high money leagues. You can't bowl in them all there is so many.

I agree with you that at the top level the lefties clearly do have the advantage. Of course it's the top level also that get in all the jackpots.

We can't fault the guys (left or right) that are good top level players. This in itself will never be a problem for our sport.

[Triplicate]

My question is that if the lack of integrity bothers you so much then why to you keep playing? If I was so against something as you are than I would definitely stop participating in it.

People who care about bowling should be concerned about the integrity of their sport! Maybe you don't care but I sure do. I'm pointing out a fact that most people like to turn a blind eye to the obvious in-equalities. They have their head buried in the sand and most also don't what to admit, own up to, or discuss this controversial issue and fact.

[StrikeTheory]

If you have ever taken tapes of a lane's breakdown after a night of 8 Righty's, and 2 Lefty's, you can see a huge disparity between the two sides. The oil is absolutely obliterated in the track, all the way from the heads to the outside.

Not to mention the carrydown difference.

Anyone can learn to bowl with either hand, I've seen people who have broken a wrist swap hands, and after a few weeks get pretty close to their old average.

After doing annual Lane Inspections for our whole usbc region the past few years, I can personally attest that the left side has less depressions, and is generally straighter than the right hand side.

It's especially evident on wood lanes that have not been cut in a few years.

[Triplicate]

I think they should allow you to switch from one hand to the other at will. If you think there is an advantage on a particular day you could switch hands.

You can do exactly that on the PBA.

As for the USBC you can also but you have to pick a side and stay their for that league. A talented leftie I know very well has both left and right handed averages and carries almost a duce on the right.

He's very open also about how much of an advantage he has on the left. He had 9 300 one season with no summer leagues. It's a record. Some lefties will just live in denial when they keep preaching that it's equally fair. Not him! He knows.

[Triplicate]

i havent read the entire thread but here is my perspective on oil movement as a lefty. you can say m not a typical lefty, my coaches have called me a lefty that thinks like a righty. i like to get in and wheel it when possible but also can play the twig and anywhere in between. i do admit in a regular house league i would say leftys have the advantage of less traffic and transition. an easy pattern where you can strike at will on the fresh wont change much if there is only 1 maybe 2 lefties on the pair. there also have been times where there were 7 or 8 lefties on my pair and i did see quite a bit of transition. i did score a little lower because i was thrown off guard but i didnt complain like righties do. transition is part of bowling and if you have been bowling leagues for 20-30 years righties should be used to this by now. transition makes it tougher but it is still just a house shot so it shouldnt be that hard to score still. pretty much the only move you have to make in chasing the oil in and making the proper ball adjustments to play the different angles.

now on sport shots it is a completely different story. this is coming mostly from college team tournaments where you bowl 6 team games in a day. in this environment i actually think righties have an advantage. on the fresh pattern there is obviously less room for error than the house shot. if a lefty cannot find a look he is often stuck grinding for 4 out of the 6 games because he is one of the only left handed players breaking down the pattern on that side of the lane. if the righties cannot find a look on the fresh pattern they can easily work together to create a dry area within a game or 2. this makes the pattern considerably easier for them for the remaining 4 games and they can use this to their advantage over the lefties. another thing to consider is that when the left side finally breaks down, the righties are usually in playing 4-5th arrown crossing the left side of the heads making my ball read early and dying downlane where there is still oil. then when i move into 4th arrown there is no head oil on the right side so i cannot get anyhting through the heads. my only option is to move all the way back on the gutter.

in conclusion i think each hand has their advantages but i think lefties get more of the criticism because to the average bowler who only bowls house leagues they get the advantage more of the time.

Good Post Cheech! Thanks for your candor.