Laser scanning a solid bowling ball after 1 game ( you'll be surprised !! )

[TheJesus]

Your feedback always welcome in the comments !

[EricHartwell]

Modern bowling balls absorb oil.

I have a theory.

The surface peaks and valleys are getting filled with oil so the laser scanner isn't actually measuring just the bowling ball.
It is measuring the peak to the surface of the oil. Not the bottom of the actual trough in the surface of the ball.
To help substantiate, each time you rolled the ball you used what appears to be a micro fiber towel.
I my opinion microfiber towels just smear the oil around the ball.
Allowing the full surface of the ball to absorb the oil or as I propose,
It just sucks it in enough to not feel oily, actually filling in the troughs.

It is what has been called Oil shine.
Some bowlers call it push and all of the sudden they have to move back out.
This usually happens early in the first game as the ball builds its' surface load of oil.

I propose don't wipe the ball off between shots.
Let the ball normally absorb the oil in the track area.
Measure the results.
Dry ball vs Wet ball
Then clean the ball with a non abrasive cleaner/oil remover.
Then scan the after results.
Dry ball vs Dry ball

I predict that the track will show more wear/shine. The other areas of the ball will be closer to the before measurements.

[TheJesus]

Thanks for watching and commenting !

About your theory :

Microfiber is known to be quite absorbent for oil, so it is unlikely that oil is merely smeared. If that were the case we would see totally different results once it absorbed in.
Also, in the scanner manual it is stated that wiping the oil with an absorbent cloth is sufficient for a proper scan.
So your theory begins with 2 untrue hypothesis.

I have never heard of "oil shine" i must admit. (then again i don't live in the USA lol )
I have heard of "push" but they say it when a ball skids more (regardless of the reason). If they don't wipe the oil, then their track is still oily for the next shot and the ball may go longer. Which is why i never leave oil on the ball. (plus i dont want oil going in the ball).

I have pretty much done what you propose in another video 3 months ago, (but forgot to post it here) which you can watch here and it will give you several answers : --->


If you have any questions or suggestions after watching that video, i'd be happy to discuss , thanks !

[EricHartwell]

Thanks for watching and commenting !

About your theory :

Microfiber is known to be quite absorbent for oil, so it is unlikely that oil is merely smeared. If that were the case we would see totally different results once it absorbed in.
Also, in the scanner manual it is stated that wiping the oil with an absorbent cloth is sufficient for a proper scan.
So your theory begins with 2 untrue hypothesis.

I'm sorry, you need better data to convince me otherwise.

Oh, your data does support my theory about "Oil Shine"
All you had to do was smear oil on the ball and scan it. The data said it was Shinier.
The scanner is measuring from to the peak to the surface of the oil.

My hypothesis are not untrue.

Microfiber is known to be quite absorbent for oil,

Really?

To support my "opinion" about microfiber towels...
Let's get into some Chemistry.

They are made of Plastic, Nylon/Polyester
From Google...
"Most microfibre fabrics consist of a combination of polyester and polyamide (nylon). Textile manufacturers produce these two fibres separately and then fuse them together using heat"

These fibers Do not absorb oil. They are made from oil.
Again other quotes from Google...
"Polyester is a manufactured synthetic fiber. It is a kind of plastic and is usually derived from petroleum. "
"What fabric doesn't absorb oil?
Polyester fabric offers water absorption and oil repellency."

Take a True urethane ball, roll it a couple a few times then wipe it with a microfiber towel.
Make sure to wipe the Entire ball. Don't turn the towel over.
How shiny is it now?
I'd describe it as Rather shiny. Because the towel just smeared the oil around the ball.

A leather cleaning pad/shamy or a clean cotton towel are way more absorbent and works WAY better.
In my opinion a paper towel is better than a microfiber towel.

To say that the lane doesn't have an effect on the surface of the ball is Way off from what I believe as well.
I can visually see burn marks on the dry lane flares on many of my balls.
Dull balls more so than shiny ones.

The surface definitely changes because of the lanes.
Let's get into some Physics now...

Two polyurethane surfaces opposing each other is going to have an effect on Both surfaces.
Take a look at the lane surface at 45-50'
The lane surface is affected by the ball as well.
Do some infrared camera work and you will see the amount of heat created is significant.

Heat is the result of friction.

Heat, pressure and movement will affect/change the surfaces.

I truly believe that the surface changes on every shot.
The Oil, Lane and the ball return all have their affects on the ball surface.

[Glenn]

[Makes bowl of popcorn, pulls up comfy chair, and wades into the deep end of the pool. LOL!]

Microfiber, as the name suggests, is an extremely thin man-made fiber that can be spun, woven, or knitted into a wide variety of textile products. Microfiber itself is a continuous filament fiber, which essentially means it is comprised of two different materials – polyamide and polyester [and maybe polypropylene]. Polyamide is a by-product of nylon and is the material within microfiber towels that helps with the absorption of liquids. Polyester fibers improve the softness and the anti-scratch properties these towels are known to produce. Polyester is essentially hydrophobic [per Teijin Fibers], but another source stated that the polyester is designed to absorb while the synthetic fibers and the rayon is the fiber to pick up water – [IDK].

Sri Lanka Institute of Textile & Apparel Technology prepared a painfully detailed report on the Manufacturing Process of Microfibers. At the factory, microfiber manufacturers use specialized equipment and specific grades of raw materials [from China or South Korea] to assemble the end-use product. However, there are two important criteria that will determine the applications for use: 1) microfiber split [weave], and 2) microfiber ratio.

• The ratio of the two materials tends to impact the strength and absorption of the towel.
Two general ratios exist for most microfiber towels [there may be others] – 80/20 and 70/30 – with the larger number represented by the percentage of polyester – and the smaller being polyamide.

• An aggressive split is best used for sensitive materials that are prone to scratch.
A less aggressive split is optimal for picking up liquid’s or absorption [oil?].
Microfiber, split during the manufacturing process, produces even thinner, multi-stranded fibers, thereby creating dramatically more surface area to trap
dust, dirt, oil, and grease—and to enhance liquid absorption.

In 2018, a researcher performed an experiment to test the different rates of absorbency in fabric types, focusing on absorption of an oil and water solution. Unfortunately for the microfiber discussion, it only compared cotton and polyester; not microfiber. It concluded that cotton fabric absorbed more of the oil and water solution than the polyester fabric did [Well, duh]. The oil in the experiment was Canola oil; not mineral oil. A potential issue with this experiment was not perfect measurements, both in fabric weight and amount of water. A better experiment would include various microfiber products. Moving on...

Most of the discussion about microfiber use centers around the automotive detailing, and general cleaning industry; microfiber towels for bowling appears to be more anecdotal. With the exception of Eric Hartwell [LOL!], the bowling community tends to believe that microfiber towels absorb much more lane oil, so they’re usually the bowling towel of choice for bowlers of all skill levels. Not only that, but microfiber towels can help you shine your ball to a near-factory look with just a little bit of water and some elbow grease. This brings up an interesting sidebar about the more aggressive microfiber towels changing bowling ball surface (cover-stock), and the question of using such towels during bowling competitions.

While you don’t necessarily need a top-end microfiber bowling towel, you need a towel which won’t scratch your cover stock, or leave its own (lint and accumulated grime) residue all over it. You need something soft and absorptive, so a budget cloth from the bargain stores might not do the job. Most of the bowling ball manufacturers sell some type of [pricey] bowling ball cloths, including microfiber which they claim are oil-absorbing. However, they say very little about if their particular product is made for the bowling industry [kinda like the argument about resurfacing pads].

• Ronald Hickland, Jr. at CtD does the better job of hawking his products, and has at least one YouTube video on the subject of differences in bowling ball cloths over time [he mentions that early terry cloth towels “smeared” the oil around]. He indicates that his products do a good job of absorbing oil, but he doesn't get in to the absorption rate of his products, and barely touches on the manufacturing process used – “fluffy”.

• The Storm Microfiber Bowling Towel hints that its Swiss-made product is manufactured for bowling – Storm also sells a cotton towel. It is a straight microfiber bowling towel that “holds up to seven times its weight in moisture, sopping up lane oil and grime indiscriminately to ensure your bowling ball remains clean and at peak effectiveness.” I don't know if “straight microfiber” is the same as a no-loop finish. It advertises the added advantage of being machine-washable – proper care is always a concern for microfiber towels.

My conclusion is that the industry plays fast-and-loose with the term “absorbency”; or at least it is confusing for the general consumer. With today's manufacturing techniques, It appears that if the product can “absorb liquids”, it means it can absorb water and oil. Your mileage may vary...

[TheJesus]

I'm sorry, you need better data to convince me otherwise.

Sorry that's not how science works. It is you who presented a hypothesis. So it is you that needs to present data in support of it. You only have a hypothesis....which means you have absolutely no idea how solid it is (if at all)....and yet you reply as if your hypothesis is already proven! That's not how science goes. And all that, based on (in your own words) just your opinion about how microfiber towels work. So you base your hypothesis on opinion instead of facts as well.

Oh, your data does support my theory about "Oil Shine"
All you had to do was smear oil on the ball and scan it. The data said it was Shinier.
The scanner is measuring from to the peak to the surface of the oil.

Of course it would be shinier. It had a bunch of oil the surface. Did you watch the whole video? Your hypothesis was not about oil ON the ball, but about oil ABSORBED in the ball, which you described "It just sucks it in enough to not feel oily, actually filling in the troughs.".

My hypothesis are not untrue.

And i already told you. If your hypothesis were true, then right after the oil was absorbed, the average grit would be HIGHER than the initial grit, because as you claimed "the scanner would not scan to the bottom of the valleys." But it wasn't higher. It was exactly as if the ball was never smeared with oil...so...

Really?
To support my "opinion" about microfiber towels...
Let's get into some Chemistry.

Not sure why you put "opinion" in quotation marks there, as if to say it ISNT your opinion but facts...since you YOURSELF mentioned it is only your opinion that microfiber doesn't work well with oil. Check your 1st post if have doubts...

These fibers Do not absorb oil. They are made from oil.
Again other quotes from Google...
"Polyester is a manufactured synthetic fiber. It is a kind of plastic and is usually derived from petroleum. "
"What fabric doesn't absorb oil?
Polyester fabric offers water absorption and oil repellency."

Really now ? Wow...So instead of actually googling whether they absorb oil, you tried to cherry pick data that appears to support your opinion. So you checked what they are made of, isolated one of the components, and googled that this component doesn't absorb oil, and bingo ! Classic confirmation bias.

You forgot to check that there are various types of microfiber and one of them is for cleaning and it is not just polyester, but also a polyamide which does the absorbing..... A simple wikipedia search mentions that... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microfiber

From the link : "Microfiber products used for consumer cleaning are generally constructed from split conjugated fibers of polyester and polyamide. Microfiber used for commercial cleaning products also includes many products constructed of 100% polyester. Microfiber products are able to absorb oils especially well and are not hard enough to scratch even paintwork unless they have retained grit or hard particles from previous use. Due to hydrogen bonding, microfiber cloth containing polyamide absorbs and holds more water than other types of fibres."

"Microfiber cloths are also used to clean photographic lenses as they absorb oily matter without being abrasive or leaving a residue, and are sold by major manufacturers such as Sinar, Nikon and Canon."

A leather cleaning pad/shamy or a clean cotton towel are way more absorbent and works WAY better. In my opinion a paper towel is better than a microfiber towel.

I agree with the leather , i have planned a test for it , just haven't got around to it. Paper towel...i doubt it.

To say that the lane doesn't have an effect on the surface of the ball is Way off from what I believe as well.

That's why i test stuff. Cause opinions are not helping the sport. Only proof and data. Personally i didn't say "effect on the surface", in general. I said that from what Ron Hickland has said, and from what i have tested so far, the lane doesn't seem to change the grit of the ball. Other "effects" like rubber marks etc, are another thing.

I can visually see burn marks on the dry lane flares on many of my balls.
Dull balls more so than shiny ones.

Stay tuned for a video i'm working on that relates to this.

The surface definitely changes because of the lanes.

Again. Opinion. Non facts.

I am planning an experiment to settle and prove this once and for all. But i need the bowling alley to help me with this so it it might take some effort with what i intend to do.

[TheJesus]

[Makes bowl of popcorn, pulls up comfy chair, and wades into the deep end of the pool. LOL!]

Microfiber, as the name suggests, is an extremely thin man-made fiber that can be spun, woven, or knitted into a wide variety of textile products. Microfiber itself is a continuous filament fiber, which essentially means it is comprised of two different materials – polyamide and polyester [and maybe polypropylene]. Polyamide is a by-product of nylon and is the material within microfiber towels that helps with the absorption of liquids. Polyester fibers improve the softness and the anti-scratch properties these towels are known to produce. Polyester is essentially hydrophobic [per Teijin Fibers], but another source stated that the polyester is designed to absorb while the synthetic fibers and the rayon is the fiber to pick up water – [IDK].

Sri Lanka Institute of Textile & Apparel Technology prepared a painfully detailed report on the Manufacturing Process of Microfibers. At the factory, microfiber manufacturers use specialized equipment and specific grades of raw materials [from China or South Korea] to assemble the end-use product. However, there are two important criteria that will determine the applications for use: 1) microfiber split [weave], and 2) microfiber ratio.

• The ratio of the two materials tends to impact the strength and absorption of the towel.
Two general ratios exist for most microfiber towels [there may be others] – 80/20 and 70/30 – with the larger number represented by the percentage of polyester – and the smaller being polyamide.

• An aggressive split is best used for sensitive materials that are prone to scratch.
A less aggressive split is optimal for picking up liquid’s or absorption [oil?].
Microfiber, split during the manufacturing process, produces even thinner, multi-stranded fibers, thereby creating dramatically more surface area to trap
dust, dirt, oil, and grease—and to enhance liquid absorption.

In 2018, a researcher performed an experiment to test the different rates of absorbency in fabric types, focusing on absorption of an oil and water solution. Unfortunately for the microfiber discussion, it only compared cotton and polyester; not microfiber. It concluded that cotton fabric absorbed more of the oil and water solution than the polyester fabric did [Well, duh]. The oil in the experiment was Canola oil; not mineral oil. A potential issue with this experiment was not perfect measurements, both in fabric weight and amount of water. A better experiment would include various microfiber products. Moving on...

Most of the discussion about microfiber use centers around the automotive detailing, and general cleaning industry; microfiber towels for bowling appears to be more anecdotal. With the exception of Eric Hartwell [LOL!], the bowling community tends to believe that microfiber towels absorb much more lane oil, so they’re usually the bowling towel of choice for bowlers of all skill levels. Not only that, but microfiber towels can help you shine your ball to a near-factory look with just a little bit of water and some elbow grease. This brings up an interesting sidebar about the more aggressive microfiber towels changing bowling ball surface (cover-stock), and the question of using such towels during bowling competitions.

While you don’t necessarily need a top-end microfiber bowling towel, you need a towel which won’t scratch your cover stock, or leave its own (lint and accumulated grime) residue all over it. You need something soft and absorptive, so a budget cloth from the bargain stores might not do the job. Most of the bowling ball manufacturers sell some type of [pricey] bowling ball cloths, including microfiber which they claim are oil-absorbing. However, they say very little about if their particular product is made for the bowling industry [kinda like the argument about resurfacing pads].

• Ronald Hickland, Jr. at CtD does the better job of hawking his products, and has at least one YouTube video on the subject of differences in bowling ball cloths over time [he mentions that early terry cloth towels “smeared” the oil around]. He indicates that his products do a good job of absorbing oil, but he doesn't get in to the absorption rate of his products, and barely touches on the manufacturing process used – “fluffy”.

• The Storm Microfiber Bowling Towel hints that its Swiss-made product is manufactured for bowling – Storm also sells a cotton towel. It is a straight microfiber bowling towel that “holds up to seven times its weight in moisture, sopping up lane oil and grime indiscriminately to ensure your bowling ball remains clean and at peak effectiveness.” I don't know if “straight microfiber” is the same as a no-loop finish. It advertises the added advantage of being machine-washable – proper care is always a concern for microfiber towels.

My conclusion is that the industry plays fast-and-loose with the term “absorbency”; or at least it is confusing for the general consumer. With today's manufacturing techniques, It appears that if the product can “absorb liquids”, it means it can absorb water and oil. Your mileage may vary...

Thanks. Long story short, microfiber is a general term. There are many types. Don't know what type Eric Hartwell is talking about, but in bowling many of them do absorb oil fine. So like i said, his theory starts from a false premise.

[EricHartwell]

Your Methods are flawed.

Hopefully your next video will address the issues I have pointed out.
I will no longer comment for or against.
I am not going to waste any more of our time.

[TheJesus]

Your Methods are flawed.

Hopefully your next video will address the issues I have pointed out.
I will no longer comment for or against.
I am not going to waste any more of our time.

Interesting discussions about things we like are not a waste of time. I answered to all your points. Perhaps you just don't want to accept them. Your own research on a simple matter as microfiber towels, was biased and ultimately wrong as both me and Glenn showed you. That alone should tell you that your theory is incorrect as it depended on that initial "fact". And if that wasn't enough, I told you that the issues you pointed out are covered in an older video, which i linked and you obviously didn't watch. I like feedback and questions and pointers, but we need to be able to back up what we say if we want to have a scientific discussion. Otherwise it is indeed a waste of time.

[EricHartwell]

Interesting discussions about things we like are not a waste of time. I answered to all your points. Perhaps you just don't want to accept them. Your own research on a simple matter as microfiber towels, was biased and ultimately wrong as both me and Glenn showed you. That alone should tell you that your theory is incorrect as it depended on that initial "fact". And if that wasn't enough, I told you that the issues you pointed out are covered in an older video, which i linked and you obviously didn't watch. I like feedback and questions and pointers, but we need to be able to back up what we say if we want to have a scientific discussion. Otherwise it is indeed a waste of time.

You posted no "facts" in refuting what I was getting at.
At least I did a google search.
I'm not going to do a research project to support my beliefs about any of this.
Just telling me I'm wrong isn't going to cut it.

Glen is not an expert and all he did was make an attempt at quoting marketing statements.
Most consumers will believe marketing and think it is fact,

Glenn,
Most of the bowling community that uses microfiber towels just want a cheap rag to wipe their ball with and it is good enough for them.
It is not good enough for measuring the actual surface of a ball.

TheJesus,
If you want to measure the actual surface of the ball get All of the oil off it.
Otherwise your data is flawed.

[MegaMav]

I am locking this thread. We're going in circles.