layout advice lower ball speed high tilt

Which layout is right for me?

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EricHartwell
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Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
Location: Michigan

Re: layout advice lower ball speed high tilt

Post by EricHartwell »

You have more Revs too!
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
klarkpba
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Member
Posts: 59
Joined: July 23rd, 2010, 1:11 pm
THS Average: 215
Positive Axis Point: 5 1/2 up
Speed: 12/14
Rev Rate: 300
Axis Tilt: 25
Axis Rotation: 45
Preferred Company: brunswick & Turbo
Location: marion, oh

Re: layout advice lower ball speed high tilt

Post by klarkpba »

Yes I do
klarkpba
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Posts: 59
Joined: July 23rd, 2010, 1:11 pm
THS Average: 215
Positive Axis Point: 5 1/2 up
Speed: 12/14
Rev Rate: 300
Axis Tilt: 25
Axis Rotation: 45
Preferred Company: brunswick & Turbo
Location: marion, oh

Re: layout advice lower ball speed high tilt

Post by klarkpba »

So does that mean you consider me more matched up?
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EricHartwell
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Posts: 4080
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
Location: Michigan

Re: layout advice lower ball speed high tilt

Post by EricHartwell »

More so today than compared to your speed dominant days.
Your speed to rev relationship is Rev dominant.
Your 25* of Tilt makes you just a little bit rev dominant.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
klarkpba
Member
Member
Posts: 59
Joined: July 23rd, 2010, 1:11 pm
THS Average: 215
Positive Axis Point: 5 1/2 up
Speed: 12/14
Rev Rate: 300
Axis Tilt: 25
Axis Rotation: 45
Preferred Company: brunswick & Turbo
Location: marion, oh

Re: layout advice lower ball speed high tilt

Post by klarkpba »

Ok makes sense
klarkpba
Member
Member
Posts: 59
Joined: July 23rd, 2010, 1:11 pm
THS Average: 215
Positive Axis Point: 5 1/2 up
Speed: 12/14
Rev Rate: 300
Axis Tilt: 25
Axis Rotation: 45
Preferred Company: brunswick & Turbo
Location: marion, oh

Re: layout advice lower ball speed high tilt

Post by klarkpba »

I'm going to be drilling a Perfect Mindset soon look for suggestions
klarkpba
Member
Member
Posts: 59
Joined: July 23rd, 2010, 1:11 pm
THS Average: 215
Positive Axis Point: 5 1/2 up
Speed: 12/14
Rev Rate: 300
Axis Tilt: 25
Axis Rotation: 45
Preferred Company: brunswick & Turbo
Location: marion, oh

Re: layout advice lower ball speed high tilt

Post by klarkpba »

Going to be drilling a perfect mindset soon looking for suggestions.
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EricHartwell
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Posts: 4080
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
Location: Michigan

Re: layout advice lower ball speed high tilt

Post by EricHartwell »

How do you want it to compare?
List your existing arsenal and layouts and I will have a suggestion.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
klarkpba
Member
Member
Posts: 59
Joined: July 23rd, 2010, 1:11 pm
THS Average: 215
Positive Axis Point: 5 1/2 up
Speed: 12/14
Rev Rate: 300
Axis Tilt: 25
Axis Rotation: 45
Preferred Company: brunswick & Turbo
Location: marion, oh

Re: layout advice lower ball speed high tilt

Post by klarkpba »

Defender 45×4.24×55, evo hybrid 60×4.5×20 a little too long, my go to. Squatch 45×43/8×35, innovator 70×4.5×35 long and weak, evo solid 50×4×40 not a fan, and a prism hybrid 45×51/4×60 like it at first oil soaked
klarkpba
Member
Member
Posts: 59
Joined: July 23rd, 2010, 1:11 pm
THS Average: 215
Positive Axis Point: 5 1/2 up
Speed: 12/14
Rev Rate: 300
Axis Tilt: 25
Axis Rotation: 45
Preferred Company: brunswick & Turbo
Location: marion, oh

Re: layout advice lower ball speed high tilt

Post by klarkpba »

I want for it to compliment my squatch. I don't want to have to play to deep and have open up anglesmy my squatch I can keep in front of me.
klarkpba
Member
Member
Posts: 59
Joined: July 23rd, 2010, 1:11 pm
THS Average: 215
Positive Axis Point: 5 1/2 up
Speed: 12/14
Rev Rate: 300
Axis Tilt: 25
Axis Rotation: 45
Preferred Company: brunswick & Turbo
Location: marion, oh

Re: layout advice lower ball speed high tilt

Post by klarkpba »

Layout advice for perfect mindset
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EricHartwell
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Trusted Source
Posts: 4080
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
Location: Michigan

Re: layout advice lower ball speed high tilt

Post by EricHartwell »

klarkpba wrote: February 9th, 2024, 3:34 pm Layout advice for perfect mindset
I would go 65-5-35 with surface tuned off the Squatch about one step smoother than it.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
klarkpba
Member
Member
Posts: 59
Joined: July 23rd, 2010, 1:11 pm
THS Average: 215
Positive Axis Point: 5 1/2 up
Speed: 12/14
Rev Rate: 300
Axis Tilt: 25
Axis Rotation: 45
Preferred Company: brunswick & Turbo
Location: marion, oh

Re: layout advice lower ball speed high tilt

Post by klarkpba »

I have never had success with an asym with mass his in the thumb I was considering a layout closer to my hammer offset that Is 40/5/60. Thoughts?
User avatar
EricHartwell
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 4080
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
Location: Michigan

Re: layout advice lower ball speed high tilt

Post by EricHartwell »

klarkpba wrote: February 12th, 2024, 9:46 pm I have never had success with an asym with mass his in the thumb I was considering a layout closer to my hammer offset that Is 40/5/60. Thoughts?
Thoughts...
Why do you need to drill the Perfect Mindset if you are going to drill it like an existing ball in your arsenal.

60* drilling angle is not mass bias in the thumbhole.

The Hammer Offset is not a strong ball. The perfect Mindset is, not even comparable.
A weak Asym like the Offset post drilled is Mass Bias in the thumb hole.
Symmetrical balls are Mass Bias in the thumb hole.

When playing the Squatch When is it that you want to switch balls?
When it starts hooking too early, yes?
I would want to switch to a ball that goes longer. A strong asym with a 40* drilling angle is not going to get down the lane when you need it too.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
klarkpba
Member
Member
Posts: 59
Joined: July 23rd, 2010, 1:11 pm
THS Average: 215
Positive Axis Point: 5 1/2 up
Speed: 12/14
Rev Rate: 300
Axis Tilt: 25
Axis Rotation: 45
Preferred Company: brunswick & Turbo
Location: marion, oh

Re: layout advice lower ball speed high tilt

Post by klarkpba »

I have an Evo pearl 65/4.5/20 and a conspiracy hybrid 70/3/55 mass bias near the thumb in both balls. I have not thrown either ball for a while. I will take to practice and see what ball reaction I have.
klarkpba
Member
Member
Posts: 59
Joined: July 23rd, 2010, 1:11 pm
THS Average: 215
Positive Axis Point: 5 1/2 up
Speed: 12/14
Rev Rate: 300
Axis Tilt: 25
Axis Rotation: 45
Preferred Company: brunswick & Turbo
Location: marion, oh

Re: layout advice lower ball speed high tilt

Post by klarkpba »

The squatch is actually the ball that gets through the front and reacts down lane the best. The fresh is sometimes a struggle.
User avatar
EricHartwell
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 4080
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
Location: Michigan

Re: layout advice lower ball speed high tilt

Post by EricHartwell »

klarkpba wrote: February 13th, 2024, 4:47 pm I have an Evo pearl 65/4.5/20 and a conspiracy hybrid 70/3/55 mass bias near the thumb in both balls. I have not thrown either ball for a while. I will take to practice and see what ball reaction I have.
Both of the layouts used are not in your Arsenal Range of layouts.
Pin to PAP on the Conspiracy is Way to short for you.
The Ratio and Totals are out of Range on the Evo.

I can see why you haven't used them in a while, They don't work for you.
I wouldn't waste time practicing with them.
klarkpba wrote: February 14th, 2024, 3:47 pm The squatch is actually the ball that gets through the front and reacts down lane the best. The fresh is sometimes a struggle.
Keep the surface fresh to get better results on the fresh.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
klarkpba
Member
Member
Posts: 59
Joined: July 23rd, 2010, 1:11 pm
THS Average: 215
Positive Axis Point: 5 1/2 up
Speed: 12/14
Rev Rate: 300
Axis Tilt: 25
Axis Rotation: 45
Preferred Company: brunswick & Turbo
Location: marion, oh

Re: layout advice lower ball speed high tilt

Post by klarkpba »

I layed out the 65/5/35 you suggest and the mass bias is on the right edge of my thumb. I have not had much success in the past with mass bias in this location. I know you know much more than I do about layouts but I have a hard time......? Lol
klarkpba
Member
Member
Posts: 59
Joined: July 23rd, 2010, 1:11 pm
THS Average: 215
Positive Axis Point: 5 1/2 up
Speed: 12/14
Rev Rate: 300
Axis Tilt: 25
Axis Rotation: 45
Preferred Company: brunswick & Turbo
Location: marion, oh

Re: layout advice lower ball speed high tilt

Post by klarkpba »

I guess I m not sure I understand the ratio being out of range what than does to my ball motion. Also can you explain why 3 in pin is too short for me. You are correct that neither of those layouts work for me.
User avatar
EricHartwell
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Trusted Source
Posts: 4080
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
Location: Michigan

Re: layout advice lower ball speed high tilt

Post by EricHartwell »

Higher Tilt bowlers will do better with lower Ratios and longer Pin to PAPs on Asyms.

The 3" Pin to PAP will retain to much Tilt and bounce off the pocket as I call it. Too much deflection.
The Ratio on the Evo Pearl 3.25:1
Your Sweetspot Ratio is 1:1.5 making your Range 1:1 to 1:2.
Skid phase will be too long and the ball will still be trying to hook as it enters the pocket, Not optimum.

It is about maximizing your pin carry.
Its one thing to get the ball to the pocket.
But if it is not in the Roll Phase your chance of carrying goes down.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
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