layout advice lower ball speed high tilt
Moderator: Moderators
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: layout advice lower ball speed high tilt
You have more Revs too!
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
-
- Member
- Posts: 59
- Joined: July 23rd, 2010, 1:11 pm
- THS Average: 215
- Positive Axis Point: 5 1/2 up
- Speed: 12/14
- Rev Rate: 300
- Axis Tilt: 25
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Preferred Company: brunswick & Turbo
- Location: marion, oh
Re: layout advice lower ball speed high tilt
So does that mean you consider me more matched up?
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: layout advice lower ball speed high tilt
More so today than compared to your speed dominant days.
Your speed to rev relationship is Rev dominant.
Your 25* of Tilt makes you just a little bit rev dominant.
Your speed to rev relationship is Rev dominant.
Your 25* of Tilt makes you just a little bit rev dominant.
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
-
- Member
- Posts: 59
- Joined: July 23rd, 2010, 1:11 pm
- THS Average: 215
- Positive Axis Point: 5 1/2 up
- Speed: 12/14
- Rev Rate: 300
- Axis Tilt: 25
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Preferred Company: brunswick & Turbo
- Location: marion, oh
Re: layout advice lower ball speed high tilt
Ok makes sense
-
- Member
- Posts: 59
- Joined: July 23rd, 2010, 1:11 pm
- THS Average: 215
- Positive Axis Point: 5 1/2 up
- Speed: 12/14
- Rev Rate: 300
- Axis Tilt: 25
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Preferred Company: brunswick & Turbo
- Location: marion, oh
Re: layout advice lower ball speed high tilt
I'm going to be drilling a Perfect Mindset soon look for suggestions
-
- Member
- Posts: 59
- Joined: July 23rd, 2010, 1:11 pm
- THS Average: 215
- Positive Axis Point: 5 1/2 up
- Speed: 12/14
- Rev Rate: 300
- Axis Tilt: 25
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Preferred Company: brunswick & Turbo
- Location: marion, oh
Re: layout advice lower ball speed high tilt
Going to be drilling a perfect mindset soon looking for suggestions.
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: layout advice lower ball speed high tilt
How do you want it to compare?
List your existing arsenal and layouts and I will have a suggestion.
List your existing arsenal and layouts and I will have a suggestion.
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
-
- Member
- Posts: 59
- Joined: July 23rd, 2010, 1:11 pm
- THS Average: 215
- Positive Axis Point: 5 1/2 up
- Speed: 12/14
- Rev Rate: 300
- Axis Tilt: 25
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Preferred Company: brunswick & Turbo
- Location: marion, oh
Re: layout advice lower ball speed high tilt
Defender 45×4.24×55, evo hybrid 60×4.5×20 a little too long, my go to. Squatch 45×43/8×35, innovator 70×4.5×35 long and weak, evo solid 50×4×40 not a fan, and a prism hybrid 45×51/4×60 like it at first oil soaked
-
- Member
- Posts: 59
- Joined: July 23rd, 2010, 1:11 pm
- THS Average: 215
- Positive Axis Point: 5 1/2 up
- Speed: 12/14
- Rev Rate: 300
- Axis Tilt: 25
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Preferred Company: brunswick & Turbo
- Location: marion, oh
Re: layout advice lower ball speed high tilt
I want for it to compliment my squatch. I don't want to have to play to deep and have open up anglesmy my squatch I can keep in front of me.
-
- Member
- Posts: 59
- Joined: July 23rd, 2010, 1:11 pm
- THS Average: 215
- Positive Axis Point: 5 1/2 up
- Speed: 12/14
- Rev Rate: 300
- Axis Tilt: 25
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Preferred Company: brunswick & Turbo
- Location: marion, oh
Re: layout advice lower ball speed high tilt
Layout advice for perfect mindset
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: layout advice lower ball speed high tilt
I would go 65-5-35 with surface tuned off the Squatch about one step smoother than it.
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
-
- Member
- Posts: 59
- Joined: July 23rd, 2010, 1:11 pm
- THS Average: 215
- Positive Axis Point: 5 1/2 up
- Speed: 12/14
- Rev Rate: 300
- Axis Tilt: 25
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Preferred Company: brunswick & Turbo
- Location: marion, oh
Re: layout advice lower ball speed high tilt
I have never had success with an asym with mass his in the thumb I was considering a layout closer to my hammer offset that Is 40/5/60. Thoughts?
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: layout advice lower ball speed high tilt
Thoughts...
Why do you need to drill the Perfect Mindset if you are going to drill it like an existing ball in your arsenal.
60* drilling angle is not mass bias in the thumbhole.
The Hammer Offset is not a strong ball. The perfect Mindset is, not even comparable.
A weak Asym like the Offset post drilled is Mass Bias in the thumb hole.
Symmetrical balls are Mass Bias in the thumb hole.
When playing the Squatch When is it that you want to switch balls?
When it starts hooking too early, yes?
I would want to switch to a ball that goes longer. A strong asym with a 40* drilling angle is not going to get down the lane when you need it too.
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
-
- Member
- Posts: 59
- Joined: July 23rd, 2010, 1:11 pm
- THS Average: 215
- Positive Axis Point: 5 1/2 up
- Speed: 12/14
- Rev Rate: 300
- Axis Tilt: 25
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Preferred Company: brunswick & Turbo
- Location: marion, oh
Re: layout advice lower ball speed high tilt
I have an Evo pearl 65/4.5/20 and a conspiracy hybrid 70/3/55 mass bias near the thumb in both balls. I have not thrown either ball for a while. I will take to practice and see what ball reaction I have.
-
- Member
- Posts: 59
- Joined: July 23rd, 2010, 1:11 pm
- THS Average: 215
- Positive Axis Point: 5 1/2 up
- Speed: 12/14
- Rev Rate: 300
- Axis Tilt: 25
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Preferred Company: brunswick & Turbo
- Location: marion, oh
Re: layout advice lower ball speed high tilt
The squatch is actually the ball that gets through the front and reacts down lane the best. The fresh is sometimes a struggle.
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: layout advice lower ball speed high tilt
Both of the layouts used are not in your Arsenal Range of layouts.
Pin to PAP on the Conspiracy is Way to short for you.
The Ratio and Totals are out of Range on the Evo.
I can see why you haven't used them in a while, They don't work for you.
I wouldn't waste time practicing with them.
Keep the surface fresh to get better results on the fresh.
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
-
- Member
- Posts: 59
- Joined: July 23rd, 2010, 1:11 pm
- THS Average: 215
- Positive Axis Point: 5 1/2 up
- Speed: 12/14
- Rev Rate: 300
- Axis Tilt: 25
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Preferred Company: brunswick & Turbo
- Location: marion, oh
Re: layout advice lower ball speed high tilt
I layed out the 65/5/35 you suggest and the mass bias is on the right edge of my thumb. I have not had much success in the past with mass bias in this location. I know you know much more than I do about layouts but I have a hard time......? Lol
-
- Member
- Posts: 59
- Joined: July 23rd, 2010, 1:11 pm
- THS Average: 215
- Positive Axis Point: 5 1/2 up
- Speed: 12/14
- Rev Rate: 300
- Axis Tilt: 25
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Preferred Company: brunswick & Turbo
- Location: marion, oh
Re: layout advice lower ball speed high tilt
I guess I m not sure I understand the ratio being out of range what than does to my ball motion. Also can you explain why 3 in pin is too short for me. You are correct that neither of those layouts work for me.
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: layout advice lower ball speed high tilt
Higher Tilt bowlers will do better with lower Ratios and longer Pin to PAPs on Asyms.
The 3" Pin to PAP will retain to much Tilt and bounce off the pocket as I call it. Too much deflection.
The Ratio on the Evo Pearl 3.25:1
Your Sweetspot Ratio is 1:1.5 making your Range 1:1 to 1:2.
Skid phase will be too long and the ball will still be trying to hook as it enters the pocket, Not optimum.
It is about maximizing your pin carry.
Its one thing to get the ball to the pocket.
But if it is not in the Roll Phase your chance of carrying goes down.
The 3" Pin to PAP will retain to much Tilt and bounce off the pocket as I call it. Too much deflection.
The Ratio on the Evo Pearl 3.25:1
Your Sweetspot Ratio is 1:1.5 making your Range 1:1 to 1:2.
Skid phase will be too long and the ball will still be trying to hook as it enters the pocket, Not optimum.
It is about maximizing your pin carry.
Its one thing to get the ball to the pocket.
But if it is not in the Roll Phase your chance of carrying goes down.
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand