Layout Suggestions

Which layout is right for me?

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TMBob
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Layout Suggestions

Post by TMBob »

Specs

Age: 65 Male
League Ave: 190 range at dif houses over the years
Ball Weight: 14
Comfort Zone: At Arrows 15 to 5
Pattern: Not sure but older Kegel with cord. Was told Program 1, 41 ft with 2’ buff if that makes any sense. Bone dry on the 1-2 boards…virtually nothing goes into the ditch. Too much into the dry goes left and goes high or hits flat.
Lanes: Not sure, but no range finders down lane and not wood

Speed: Off hand 15-16.5 Down lane 13.5 to 14
Revs 250-275
Rotation 50-65
Tilt 24-27
PAP 4 7/8 3/4 Up

Ratio guess…..1:1.25 to 1:1.50

Balls that do me well are IQ Tour 4 3/8 x 40, IQ Gold Pearl 3 3/4 x 75, Orange Vibe 4 x 40 IQ Fusion 4.5 x 40 Critical Theory 55 x 3 3/4 x 30 X Factor 35 4 3/8 x 50 Do not have the Fusion (cracked) and sold the Critical T.

Main Issue I have is lack of carry/slop/luck…..rarely have a light swisher, rarely kick out a back door 4, yet I see these for others often, mainly the swisher. Tells me that my ball goes thru the pins not the best way…correct?

Balls that I am looking at
Roto TNT
Hammer Widow Hybrid 2.0

Balls sitting that I might drill up
Roto Hustle USA, Cosmos
Storm IQ Ruby

Thanks for your help
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EricHartwell
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Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
Location: Michigan

Re: Layout Suggestions

Post by EricHartwell »

Sweetspot 85* Totals 1:1.75 Ratio

Totally Strong ............. 25-5.5-40
Midlane .................... 20-5-45
Benchmark ................ 30-4.5-55 Pin in the Ring Finger
Long and Strong .......... 50-4.5-55 .............................. Widow Ghost
Control .................... 30-4-75 ................................. Widow Hybrid 2.0
Low flare .................. 60-4.5-45 ............................... Hammer Obsession Tour

Symmetrical Benchmark .. xx-3-50 ................................ Roto Grip TNT

I don't recommend the low flare short pin Asyms for higher tilt players.
Obsession Tour and its lower differential fits the bill with a layout more suited for your Tilt.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
TMBob
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Joined: February 17th, 2023, 8:43 pm

Re: Layout Suggestions

Post by TMBob »

Thank you very much Eric,

Funny I had a 65 x 4.5 x 40 layout drawn on my Obsession Tour Pearl based on some of your response to past request from people close to me stat wise.…forgot to mention it was a Pearl.

Thoughts on the IQ Ruby? Just keep it the same as my Gold IQ? What would my Control Sym be? 4 x 75?

Last, what about surface….do you suggest more surface on most balls?

Cheers
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EricHartwell
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Posts: 4080
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
Location: Michigan

Re: Layout Suggestions

Post by EricHartwell »

Your Symm Control Layout ....... xx-4-70

Ruby and Gold are essentially the same ball. Different color and smell.
It is a perfect replacement for the old Gold.
Having them both in the bag with the same layout is a waste.

Surface, Generally speaking with higher Tilt bowlers more surface is needed.
Especially when the lanes are fresh,
But...
Higher friction lane conditions will burn all of the balls energy resulting in poor pin action.

The lanes will tell you what surface to use. They also tell you what line to throw.
Trying to play 3rd arrow out to 1st arrow is a lot to ask for having less than 300 rpm's.
Sure, you may be able to get the ball back to the pocket but it has nothing left when it does.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
TMBob
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Posts: 5
Joined: February 17th, 2023, 8:43 pm

Re: Layout Suggestions

Post by TMBob »

Thanks again Eric for your info.

I’m looking to add a few balls and just wanted to clarify layouts.

Sym bench you suggested 3 x 50. Never having this Pin to PAP I’m willing to try this for sure. I have a new Idol Cosmos and Hustle USA. Would either one work with that 3 x 50 or do you suggest something more in the lines of a Phase 2, TNT or another IQT Solid? I do have an Idol that I could plug up and try this layout before trying it on a NIB ball.

As for my IQ Ruby that is ordered, I’m looking at drilling it different from my Gold which is 3 3/4” x 75. I’ll probably have a spare Ruby on hand if Goldie dies, or cracks to drill up the 4 x 70 as suggested. I have a IQ 30th at 4 3/8” x 35 and it seems stronger/angular than the Gold and my results are not as good overall. Thoughts on the Ruby for most THS? I don’t see a Long and Strong layout suggested for a Sym either, any thoughts or not good with my specs?

I would like to get a fresh Asym into the rotation and you suggested layouts, Benchmark, Control and Low Flair with balls suggestions for each layout. Thanks Wasn’t sure if the Obsession Tour Pearl that I have would work for the Low Flair layout that you suggested for the solid version. Would it work for the Pearl version also? The Widow Hy 2.0 has my eye even though it’s got some flip, but will that controlled layout reduce that enough?

Last, just saw a vid on YT about 5” or more PIN to PAP with a smaller VAL, say 20 degree for a Sym ball. Mentioned more of a early roll and more forward thru the pins and works well with pearls…Good for Twister pins or houses that don’t like a stronger entry angle. I bowled at a house like this…gave me carry fits…4-9 City or of course just the 4 or just the 9 pins. With my specs would a layout like this help? If so, what layout and a type of ball?

Thanks again
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EricHartwell
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Posts: 4080
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
Location: Michigan

Re: Layout Suggestions

Post by EricHartwell »

TMBob wrote: February 28th, 2023, 9:59 pm Thanks again Eric for your info.

I’m looking to add a few balls and just wanted to clarify layouts.

Sym bench you suggested 3 x 50. Never having this Pin to PAP I’m willing to try this for sure. I have a new Idol Cosmos and Hustle USA. Would either one work with that 3 x 50 or do you suggest something more in the lines of a Phase 2, TNT or another IQT Solid? I do have an Idol that I could plug up and try this layout before trying it on a NIB ball.
I like the idea of the Cosmos and TNT both with your Symmetrical Benchmark layout on it.
Try them with the factory surfaces first and adjust the skid lengths with a surface adjustment if necessary.
I think that 2 ball combination is a good one. keep the TNT dull for a Benchmark reaction and the Cosmos closer to shiny for the Long and Strong.


As for my IQ Ruby that is ordered, I’m looking at drilling it different from my Gold which is 3 3/4” x 75. I’ll probably have a spare Ruby on hand if Goldie dies, or cracks to drill up the 4 x 70 as suggested. Unfortunitly Symmetricals don't have the versility that Asyms have. Especially with lower Differential Symmetricals. I would use the Symmetrical Benchmark with Ruby as well and now you have a 3 ball set with the TNT Benchmark , Cosmos Long and Strong with Ruby rounding the set out as a low flare.
I have a IQ 30th at 4 3/8” x 35 and it seems stronger/angular than the Gold and my results are not as good overall. Thoughts on the Ruby for most THS? I don’t see a Long and Strong layout suggested for a Sym either, any thoughts or not good with my specs?
Generally speaking Symmetyrical balls are naturally longer and the Drilling Angle is about the thumbhole, no adjustability.
Skid length can only be adjusted with surface. Thus my idea for the TNT and the Cosmos above.


I would like to get a fresh Asym into the rotation and you suggested layouts, Benchmark, Control and Low Flair with balls suggestions for each layout. Thanks Wasn’t sure if the Obsession Tour Pearl that I have would work for the Low Flair layout that you suggested for the solid version. Would it work for the Pearl version also? Yes, it is the same core and you can add surface to a pearl just as easy as a solid.
Surface adjustment tuning is needed with any ball.

The Widow Hy 2.0 has my eye even though it’s got some flip, but will that controlled layout reduce that enough? Yes

Last, just saw a vid on YT about 5” or more PIN to PAP with a smaller VAL, say 20 degree for a Sym ball. Mentioned more of a early roll and more forward thru the pins and works well with pearls…Good for Twister pins or houses that don’t like a stronger entry angle. I bowled at a house like this…gave me carry fits…4-9 City or of course just the 4 or just the 9 pins. With my specs would a layout like this help? If so, what layout and a type of ball?
Post the link address of the youtube video.

In my opinion not a good choice for you.
Symmetricals with a 5" Pin to PAP is low flare and without enough rpm's it will not engage the core.
When you have those nights that leave you fighting 4,9 and 4-9 leaves you are not playing far enough inside.
In my mind you have the right ball in your hands, just not playing the right line.


Thanks again
Bob

Comments in color above

I would break out a new ball with a new layout rather than re-drilling old equipment.
I am not a fan of plug and re-drills.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
TMBob
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Posts: 5
Joined: February 17th, 2023, 8:43 pm

Re: Layout Suggestions

Post by TMBob »



Thank so much again. Very, very helpful.
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EricHartwell
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Posts: 4080
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
Location: Michigan

Re: Layout Suggestions

Post by EricHartwell »

Time Stamp 2:27 Listen to what is said.

"Based on how you bowl."



This layout is for Stu Williams. He is basically a very Low Tilt, higher rev bowler.

Large flaring balls roll over gripping holes for him with some layouts.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
TMBob
Member
Member
Posts: 5
Joined: February 17th, 2023, 8:43 pm

Re: Layout Suggestions

Post by TMBob »

Been able to have a few balls drilled recently. Roto Grip Idol Cosmos and an IQ Tour Ruby. Have 12 games on the Cosmos and hope to throw the Ruby the end of the week.

Eric suggested a 3x50 layout on both which I did. This puts the pin to the right of my ring finger about dead even height wise. The Cosmos have 4 straight 600+ weeks, nothing super high but I did have the front 9 which made me stand up in the tenth for only my third time in my life going for a 300. Ball feels stronger than my IQ Tour but still very round with good carry. Went all 4 weeks not making a ball change in the 3rd game even though my scores have come down in that last game. Hopefully the Ruby will be the ticket here to up my series totals.

I took the Ruby down to 2000 by hand and added CAD Polish to it by hand after all the talk about the Reacta Gloss Finish issue’s. We will see how it goes Friday night. Cheers
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