I got a #13 Storm Phase II drilled 60 x 4.75 x 30 with the hope that it would be my bench mark ball. However, this ball is too strong for my stats and my current house leagues. I had the ring finger drilled deeper plus putting a 4000 Abralon surface finish on the ball in order to tame it down a bit. I can use it but I have to start way left and play a fairly deep line to stay in the oil.
I am not married to any specific brand. What would you suggest for a #13 ball a step down from the Phase II where I could play more down the line targeting maybe the 12th board? Thanks.
Recommend Bench Mark Ball
Moderator: Moderators
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- Member
- Posts: 130
- Joined: October 3rd, 2010, 3:39 pm
- THS Average: 175
- Positive Axis Point: Right Handed - 5" over 1/2" up
- Speed: 14 mph off hand
- Rev Rate: 300
- Axis Tilt: 17
- Axis Rotation: 75
- Heavy Oil Ball: Storm Virtual Gravity 40x4x40
- Medium Oil Ball: MoRich Frenzy 70x5.5x60 P3; MoRich Craze 60x2.25x40 P2
- Light Oil Ball: Radical Cyclops 115x1.75x45; Low Flare
Recommend Bench Mark Ball
Right handed
Lanes - synthetic;
14 mph off hand
Revs 300 rpm
AR - 50 to 70 degrees
AT - 17 degrees
PAP - 5" over 1/2" up
Lanes - synthetic;
14 mph off hand
Revs 300 rpm
AR - 50 to 70 degrees
AT - 17 degrees
PAP - 5" over 1/2" up
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: Recommend Bench Mark Ball
You have a couple of issues working against you with your release specs.
1. Very Rev dominant.
2. High Rotation
Layouts can only do so much.
It is a tall order to get less hook when you turn the ball sideways.
I suggest a Sport Layout 30-5.5-55 Pin in the Middle finger
This layout will start the core early, in the oil, to get it to use it's energy early.
Unlike the Phase II which stores it's energy and revs up on the backend dry boards.
I would look at the Evo Hybrid.
1. Very Rev dominant.
2. High Rotation
Layouts can only do so much.
It is a tall order to get less hook when you turn the ball sideways.
I suggest a Sport Layout 30-5.5-55 Pin in the Middle finger
This layout will start the core early, in the oil, to get it to use it's energy early.
Unlike the Phase II which stores it's energy and revs up on the backend dry boards.
I would look at the Evo Hybrid.
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
-
- Member
- Posts: 130
- Joined: October 3rd, 2010, 3:39 pm
- THS Average: 175
- Positive Axis Point: Right Handed - 5" over 1/2" up
- Speed: 14 mph off hand
- Rev Rate: 300
- Axis Tilt: 17
- Axis Rotation: 75
- Heavy Oil Ball: Storm Virtual Gravity 40x4x40
- Medium Oil Ball: MoRich Frenzy 70x5.5x60 P3; MoRich Craze 60x2.25x40 P2
- Light Oil Ball: Radical Cyclops 115x1.75x45; Low Flare
Re: Recommend Bench Mark Ball
Thanks Eric. You are correct with my current release. I have been trying to change for a while for less rotation. The ball that I had success was a low flare #14 Radical Cyclops Pearl drilled 115x1.75x45. This ball was performance fitted by Mo P. It also is very condition specific in order to use it. Unfortunately, the ball cracked after 4.5 years even though it was stored inside. As we discussed before, I just dropped ball weight to 13 lbs. with the hope that I could bring the ball speed up a touch.
Quick question about the #13 Evo Hybrid. Isn't this ball even stronger than the Phase II? Shouldn't I look at a ball a step down from the Phase II? I am very curious about the 30-5.5-55 pin in the middle finger layout. Is this layout for symmetric or asymmetric? I think the Evo is asymmetric. I have an old Storm Virtual Reality and a MoRich Frency. They are both asymmetric #14 balls. The MoRich is quite a bit milder than the Storm VG. Perhaps I could plug and re-drill with that sport layout and see how it works first. What do you think?
Quick question about the #13 Evo Hybrid. Isn't this ball even stronger than the Phase II? Shouldn't I look at a ball a step down from the Phase II? I am very curious about the 30-5.5-55 pin in the middle finger layout. Is this layout for symmetric or asymmetric? I think the Evo is asymmetric. I have an old Storm Virtual Reality and a MoRich Frency. They are both asymmetric #14 balls. The MoRich is quite a bit milder than the Storm VG. Perhaps I could plug and re-drill with that sport layout and see how it works first. What do you think?
Right handed
Lanes - synthetic;
14 mph off hand
Revs 300 rpm
AR - 50 to 70 degrees
AT - 17 degrees
PAP - 5" over 1/2" up
Lanes - synthetic;
14 mph off hand
Revs 300 rpm
AR - 50 to 70 degrees
AT - 17 degrees
PAP - 5" over 1/2" up
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: Recommend Bench Mark Ball
The layout is for an Asymmetric.
I am not a fan of plug and redrills unless you can spin it on a Determinator after plugging before redrilling it to find the PSA.
It is up to you if you want to experiment before investing in a new ball.
If you do choose to experiment I would also try a grip change.
I mention this as a possible way to lower your rev rate and increase speed as you may be grabbing the ball at the bottom.
Grabbing,lifting or hitting up on the ball is a common problem that robs bowlers of the speed needed to be matched.
As I was making this post I found myself thinking about 2 of the best bowlers, Norm Duke and Pete Weber.
I suggest studying their releases and try to emulate their soft hand at the bottom.
I am not a fan of plug and redrills unless you can spin it on a Determinator after plugging before redrilling it to find the PSA.
It is up to you if you want to experiment before investing in a new ball.
If you do choose to experiment I would also try a grip change.
I mention this as a possible way to lower your rev rate and increase speed as you may be grabbing the ball at the bottom.
Grabbing,lifting or hitting up on the ball is a common problem that robs bowlers of the speed needed to be matched.
As I was making this post I found myself thinking about 2 of the best bowlers, Norm Duke and Pete Weber.
I suggest studying their releases and try to emulate their soft hand at the bottom.
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
-
- Member
- Posts: 130
- Joined: October 3rd, 2010, 3:39 pm
- THS Average: 175
- Positive Axis Point: Right Handed - 5" over 1/2" up
- Speed: 14 mph off hand
- Rev Rate: 300
- Axis Tilt: 17
- Axis Rotation: 75
- Heavy Oil Ball: Storm Virtual Gravity 40x4x40
- Medium Oil Ball: MoRich Frenzy 70x5.5x60 P3; MoRich Craze 60x2.25x40 P2
- Light Oil Ball: Radical Cyclops 115x1.75x45; Low Flare
Re: Recommend Bench Mark Ball
Hi Eric, would you please clarify, a grip change to what. For example, do you mean a larger or shorter span, different pitches for the fingers or thumb holes. Thanks.EricHartwell wrote: ↑January 5th, 2023, 3:07 am
If you do choose to experiment I would also try a grip change.
Right handed
Lanes - synthetic;
14 mph off hand
Revs 300 rpm
AR - 50 to 70 degrees
AT - 17 degrees
PAP - 5" over 1/2" up
Lanes - synthetic;
14 mph off hand
Revs 300 rpm
AR - 50 to 70 degrees
AT - 17 degrees
PAP - 5" over 1/2" up
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: Recommend Bench Mark Ball
I mention a grip change as a way to experiment.
You have stated that you have tried to change your release but have not been successful.
How long have you been using the same grip?
Obviously your physical abilities have changed.
When trying a a new layout on an old ball have the pso fit your hand and not copy your old grip.
Try something different and you might get different results.
Maybe just try a new grip without changing the layout on one of your old balls.
If your release specs change then re-evaluate layout needs.
You have stated that you have tried to change your release but have not been successful.
How long have you been using the same grip?
Obviously your physical abilities have changed.
When trying a a new layout on an old ball have the pso fit your hand and not copy your old grip.
Try something different and you might get different results.
Maybe just try a new grip without changing the layout on one of your old balls.
If your release specs change then re-evaluate layout needs.
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
-
- Member
- Posts: 130
- Joined: October 3rd, 2010, 3:39 pm
- THS Average: 175
- Positive Axis Point: Right Handed - 5" over 1/2" up
- Speed: 14 mph off hand
- Rev Rate: 300
- Axis Tilt: 17
- Axis Rotation: 75
- Heavy Oil Ball: Storm Virtual Gravity 40x4x40
- Medium Oil Ball: MoRich Frenzy 70x5.5x60 P3; MoRich Craze 60x2.25x40 P2
- Light Oil Ball: Radical Cyclops 115x1.75x45; Low Flare
Re: Recommend Bench Mark Ball
Thanks Eric for the suggestions. I have been trying for a year to not come around the ball with my release. This is my natural tendency. If I focus super hard of going up the back of the ball, I can reduce rotation. My physical ability has definitely change. I am 68 years "young" now. Used to be able to throw 15 lb balls with no issues. Then I went down to 14 lb. This is why I have been consulting with you regarding 13 lb. balls.
Regarding my grip, I have used the same grip for many, many years. Something like 30+ years. I use a Storm Gizmo Wrist Support. I got it after wrist surgery. I know that if I take it out, my release feels really strange and unstable. But I can drastically reduce my rotation without the device.
Regarding my grip, I have used the same grip for many, many years. Something like 30+ years. I use a Storm Gizmo Wrist Support. I got it after wrist surgery. I know that if I take it out, my release feels really strange and unstable. But I can drastically reduce my rotation without the device.
Right handed
Lanes - synthetic;
14 mph off hand
Revs 300 rpm
AR - 50 to 70 degrees
AT - 17 degrees
PAP - 5" over 1/2" up
Lanes - synthetic;
14 mph off hand
Revs 300 rpm
AR - 50 to 70 degrees
AT - 17 degrees
PAP - 5" over 1/2" up
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: Recommend Bench Mark Ball
Pretty much each time I dropped in weight I had my hand remeasured and refit without reference to my old grip.
30 years ago the changes were fairly drastic dropping from 16# to 15#.
20 years ago 15# to 14# less drastic changes but still significant.
Kept the same grip initially when I dropped from 14# to 13#.
My current arsenal was drilled with another grip change I had experimented with my 1st 13# arsenal.
My current grip feels better than any grip I've ever used in the past.
If you are able to bowl pain free I would give up the Gizmo.
Bowling regularly you will get more comfortable and what feels different now will become the norm.
30 years ago the changes were fairly drastic dropping from 16# to 15#.
20 years ago 15# to 14# less drastic changes but still significant.
Kept the same grip initially when I dropped from 14# to 13#.
My current arsenal was drilled with another grip change I had experimented with my 1st 13# arsenal.
My current grip feels better than any grip I've ever used in the past.
If you are able to bowl pain free I would give up the Gizmo.
Bowling regularly you will get more comfortable and what feels different now will become the norm.
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand