Roto Grip Hyped Solid - #14 vs. #13

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jsluk
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Roto Grip Hyped Solid - #14 vs. #13

Post by jsluk »

Their specs are as follows:

#14 2.52 Rg 0.036 diff
#13 2.63 Rg 0.009 diff

They are very different balls. Would you agree? Does anyone know of a #13 ball that plays like the #14 Hyped Solid? I am brand agnostic. Thanks.
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Re: Roto Grip Hyped Solid - #14 vs. #13

Post by TomaHawk »

jsluk wrote: January 6th, 2023, 3:43 pm Their specs are as follows:

#14 2.52 Rg 0.036 diff
#13 2.63 Rg 0.009 diff

They are very different balls. Would you agree? Does anyone know of a #13 ball that plays like the #14 Hyped Solid? I am brand agnostic. Thanks.
Guess my question would be, which bowling balls are you comparing?

Beyond that.....

We have a lot of older bowlers in our center. At least once a week, one of them will ask if they should consider a lighter bowling ball. Their concern, will they lose hitting power? The answer is, yes, they will lose hitting power. Makes sense, right? Lighter ball, less hitting power.

In terms of using a lighter ball, a bowler should be concerned with one thing, can they they get the ball to the pocket consistently? If the person can not, there is no hope. If they can, usually small adjustments in their game plan will help them carry a little better.
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Re: Roto Grip Hyped Solid - #14 vs. #13

Post by jsluk »

Thanks TomaHawk for the reply. 68 years old bowler here. I am considering building a #13 arsenal. I just got a #13 Storm Phase II is this ball is a lot stronger than I had hope. I was going to use it as my bench mark ball for my 2 house leagues. For the next step down for a ball, I was hoping to use the Hype Solid. Clearly, the #13 core is very weak if you look at the numbers. Hence, I am asking if someone else knows of a decent substitution. Regards.
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EricHartwell
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Re: Roto Grip Hyped Solid - #14 vs. #13

Post by EricHartwell »

You made me act like I was shopping for a 13# Symmetrical Medium differential, medium oil condition ball.
Thinking I don't have such a ball in my arsenal.
This is what I found...

https://www.stormbowling.com/iqtour
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Heavy Oil Ball: Storm Virtual Gravity 40x4x40
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Re: Roto Grip Hyped Solid - #14 vs. #13

Post by jsluk »

Thanks Eric. I did take a peek into you arsenal. The IQ might just be the ticket for me. I take it that this and the #13 Motiv Venom Shock are very similar. Regards.
Right handed
Lanes - synthetic;
14 mph off hand
Revs 300 rpm
AR - 50 to 70 degrees
AT - 17 degrees
PAP - 5" over 1/2" up
jsluk
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Positive Axis Point: Right Handed - 5" over 1/2" up
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Heavy Oil Ball: Storm Virtual Gravity 40x4x40
Medium Oil Ball: MoRich Frenzy 70x5.5x60 P3; MoRich Craze 60x2.25x40 P2
Light Oil Ball: Radical Cyclops 115x1.75x45; Low Flare

Re: Roto Grip Hyped Solid - #14 vs. #13

Post by jsluk »

jsluk wrote: January 18th, 2023, 4:34 pm I take it that this and the #13 Motiv Venom Shock are very similar.
Eric, I found my answer in the Motiv site. 2.58 Rg 0.023 differential. So it is much weaker than the #13 IQ Tour. You seem to be very good at finding #13 balls with cores stronger than their #14 counter part.
Right handed
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AT - 17 degrees
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Re: Roto Grip Hyped Solid - #14 vs. #13

Post by davidjr113 »

Once you get below 14 lbs, with each manufacturer, you will find many balls using the same generic core, the only difference being the coverstock. For example, in the Storm family the IQ’s, the Hyroads, the new Roto Grip TNT and many others use the same core in 13 & 12 lbs. The coverstocks may or may not be different. The manufacturer’s websites provide a lot of that detail. Looking at Storms website you can see that at 13 lbs the Hyroad Pearl & Phase V have the same core and same coverstock, same ball basically at 13, but Phase V is Master line and much more expensive than Hyroad which is Thunder line. Different balls 14 lbs & up, same ball 13 & under
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Re: Roto Grip Hyped Solid - #14 vs. #13

Post by davidjr113 »

And yes, if you are rolling 13 lbs & under, search all of Eric’s posts, lot of good info there. Personally, after a thumb injury and a lot of arthritis related issues, dropped to 13 lbs five years ago and now going to 12. Based on info I learned from Eric, I looked closer at Brunswick family & just received a Quantum Evo Hybrid at 12 lbs. which using fir first time tomorrow
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jsluk
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Positive Axis Point: Right Handed - 5" over 1/2" up
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Axis Rotation: 75
Heavy Oil Ball: Storm Virtual Gravity 40x4x40
Medium Oil Ball: MoRich Frenzy 70x5.5x60 P3; MoRich Craze 60x2.25x40 P2
Light Oil Ball: Radical Cyclops 115x1.75x45; Low Flare

Re: Roto Grip Hyped Solid - #14 vs. #13

Post by jsluk »

davidjr113 wrote: January 18th, 2023, 11:50 pm Once you get below 14 lbs, with each manufacturer, you will find many balls using the same generic core, the only difference being the coverstock
Thanks. I agree with your general assessment. That is why I follow Eric's suggestions. He has been able to find some #13 cores stronger than their #14 brethren. ie, the Quantum EVO solid!
Right handed
Lanes - synthetic;
14 mph off hand
Revs 300 rpm
AR - 50 to 70 degrees
AT - 17 degrees
PAP - 5" over 1/2" up
jsluk
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Positive Axis Point: Right Handed - 5" over 1/2" up
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Heavy Oil Ball: Storm Virtual Gravity 40x4x40
Medium Oil Ball: MoRich Frenzy 70x5.5x60 P3; MoRich Craze 60x2.25x40 P2
Light Oil Ball: Radical Cyclops 115x1.75x45; Low Flare

Re: Roto Grip Hyped Solid - #14 vs. #13

Post by jsluk »

davidjr113 wrote: January 18th, 2023, 11:58 pm And yes, if you are rolling 13 lbs & under, search all of Eric’s posts, lot of good info there
Thanks. I couldn't agree more. Especially with the Quantum EVO line.
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Re: Roto Grip Hyped Solid - #14 vs. #13

Post by TomaHawk »

Maybe my explanation of what a person will encounter was not quite in-depth enough. My statement is based on a large cross-section of bowlers who have made the decision to reduce the weight of the their bowling equipment due to (1) age, (2) physical limitations, or (3) both.

Example:

One particular customer, Bob, absolutely loves bowling. He has the means to purchase a lot of bowling equipment. At beginning of this season, he purchased four, 15# bowling balls. He just turned 70 years old a couple of weeks ago. I'm not sure if it's psychosomatic or what, but all of sudden he developed aches and pains that he did not have when he was 69 years and 364 days old.

Bob made the decision to drop to 12# equipment. He loves bowling ball technology too. His first question: "What about the difference in the wight block design, what about the rg, diff, and mb numbers, etc". Then added: "What about hitting power?"

I get a lot slack for the answer I'm about to give: "The numbers do not matter if a person cannot get the ball to the pocket". If a bowler has physical limitations, chances are they should not be playing 40 boards of hook, it's that simple. A person should be willing to accept and adapt to whatever changes need to be made to get the ball to the pocket.

Bob, after a lot of research on his behalf, decided to buy a 12# UC3. The numbers and core configuration in a UC3, 12 - 16lbs, are about as different as you can get when comparing weight blocks across a product line. He was very concerned.

His first night out with the ball, he happened to be on lanes that were visible from the pro shop. It was startling. His ball speed was up slightly, he was playing a straighter line, and last, but not least, the ball was exploding at the pins. Prior to getting the 12# ball, he struggled to shoot 500. This particular night he rolled 650.

He now has a whole slew of 12# equipment, his scores are consistently higher across the board, and just had a 279 game too. To his credit, whether consciously or unconsciously , he made the proper adjustment when he went down in weight.

That is not always the case with some customers.

I have customers who buy lighter equipment and stop throwing it. Their reason (my absolute favorite response to why a ball doesn't perform): "Because the lighter ball doesn't allow me to play where I used to play".

hmmmmmm nuf said.....
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Re: Roto Grip Hyped Solid - #14 vs. #13

Post by jsluk »

TomaHawk, thanks for sharing. I agree 100% about getting to the pocket. In my case, I am trying to gain more ball speed. I have no problem getting the ball to the pocket. My 13# Storm Phase II is just too strong for my higher friction house patterns. Regards.
Right handed
Lanes - synthetic;
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Revs 300 rpm
AR - 50 to 70 degrees
AT - 17 degrees
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Re: Roto Grip Hyped Solid - #14 vs. #13

Post by kajmk »

jsluk wrote: January 20th, 2023, 2:18 am TomaHawk, thanks for sharing. I agree 100% about getting to the pocket. In my case, I am trying to gain more ball speed. I have no problem getting the ball to the pocket. My 13# Storm Phase II is just too strong for my higher friction house patterns. Regards.
jsluk, on your road to gaining speed, remember that the ball hits hardest when it is in a rolling state.

Three Phases of Ball Motion

http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... all_Motion

Phase of motion and angle of entry are major components.

Take care.
May all beings everywhere be happy and free,
and may the thoughts, words, and actions of my own life
contribute in some way to that happiness
and to that freedom for all.

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Re: Roto Grip Hyped Solid - #14 vs. #13

Post by TomaHawk »

jsluk wrote: January 20th, 2023, 2:18 am TomaHawk, thanks for sharing. I agree 100% about getting to the pocket. In my case, I am trying to gain more ball speed. I have no problem getting the ball to the pocket. My 13# Storm Phase II is just too strong for my higher friction house patterns. Regards.
Now, the larger picture is clearer. The Phase II has a strong cover, best used on heavier volumes of oil. You pretty much know that by your response.

Let's talk about speed for a moment. Speed adjustment is one of the more difficult aspects of bowling. The reason it's so difficult, just about every element of the approach needs to be adjusted. I have friends who have bowled on Team USA, they make speed adjustment look easy, adjusting the height of the ball in the stance, faster / slower footwork, higher or lower body position throughout the approach, the list goes on.

The question is, can a lighter ball increase your speed without causing too much of an issue? Basic answer, a lighter ball will
allow you to execute the shot more comfortably. That alone could increase your ball speed.

Ball choice at lighter weights is the same as heavier weights, look at the covers, don't be too concerned about the numbers. The manufacturers have designated which cores work best in a particular weight range.

***Here's an observation about bowling balls from Earl Anthony: "If you don't like the color, you probably won't bowl well with it." That guy kept it so simple.
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Re: Roto Grip Hyped Solid - #14 vs. #13

Post by EricHartwell »

jsluk wrote: January 18th, 2023, 4:34 pm Thanks Eric. I did take a peek into you arsenal. The IQ might just be the ticket for me. I take it that this and the #13 Motiv Venom Shock are very similar. Regards.
The IQ has been in production for many years. Storm has a good product with the R2S coverstock.
jsluk wrote: January 18th, 2023, 11:39 pm Eric, I found my answer in the Motiv site. 2.58 Rg 0.023 differential. So it is much weaker than the #13 IQ Tour. You seem to be very good at finding #13 balls with cores stronger than their #14 counter part.
I feel that a stronger core helps make up some of the difference that the lighter weight takes away.
TomaHawk wrote: January 20th, 2023, 5:38 pm Ball choice at lighter weights is the same as heavier weights, look at the covers, don't be too concerned about the numbers. The manufacturers have designated which cores work best in a particular weight range.

***Here's an observation about bowling balls from Earl Anthony: "If you don't like the color, you probably won't bowl well with it." That guy kept it so simple.
I have to agree and disagree.
You still need to keep an eye on the numbers as jsluk has found with the Hyped numbers, the 13# is a non flaring spare ball.

I love the comment about Earl. I have said on more than one occasion ball Color is the most important ball spec.
Especially if you are getting the wife a new ball.
I have shopped on more than one occasion for a specific color bowling ball.
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Re: Roto Grip Hyped Solid - #14 vs. #13

Post by TomaHawk »

Agreed, shapes and sizes of cores can be relevant in terms of ball reaction / motion.

I think, bowler input is the more important. I hear it all the time, a ball doesn't work(?), someone tells them it's the wrong ball, the pin is in the wrong location, they have the wrong pitch in their thumb, on and on and on. Really?

Blaming the ball or something other than one's self is what bowling is all about in today's environment.

Just the other day, a customer came into the shop, made a statement: "How do you carry in this damn place?" Meanwhile, another guy shot 300 on his pair.

Recently, I drilled a ball for a guy, who just so happened to be bowling directly in front of the shop. I watched him leave flat 10's and 2-4-5's for most of the night. Sure enough, he came into the shop midway through third game and states he wants the pin in a stronger location. Well, the layout was already as strong as it could get for his particular game and I proceeded to explain that to him. He was not convinced.

What he did not realize, I had been watching him the whole night. I made a suggestion: "What about moving two boards to the right?" His reply floored me: "I don't want to play there, it's boring". Wow, I was shocked into silence for about 10 seconds. Gathering my thoughts, I said: "What if moving two boards right would put you in a position to shoot 900, would you do it?" His response: "Probably not".

The fellow goes back to finish the game, changes his trajectory (moved the two boards) and struck out from the 5th frame.

So, when someone says: "It's the ball", hopefully, people understand, I am somewhat skeptical.
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Re: Roto Grip Hyped Solid - #14 vs. #13

Post by EricHartwell »

Just experienced one of those nights where I couldn't find the carry and on the same pair one of the big boys rips off 300/780 against us.

TomaHawk, what are you doing next Wednesday?
I could use someone to tell me where to move when I can't seem to carry that blasted 10 pin. jk

Quite a bit of my carry issues come down to the root cause of lighter weight equipment.
I've left the 5-7-10 more times in the last 4 years than I have in my whole 36 year bowling career.
But, I don't hurt after rolling a set and I can get through 2 day tournaments.
Rolling heavier equipment doesn't allow me this.

When rolling lighter weight equipment finding the right Layout and Surface definitely has benefits.
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Re: Roto Grip Hyped Solid - #14 vs. #13

Post by TomaHawk »

Having bowled in traveling leagues afforded me an opportunity to bowl in most of the centers in our area. When a customer has a concern, I can usually make suggestions that will help them perform a little better.

We know, throwing lighter equipment is going to change the strength at which the ball hits the pins. Also, for the most part, lighter equipment will get "pushed around" on the lane too. But, and there is always but, I know two guys who use 12# equipment who never seem to have an issue with getting to pocket and carrying. One of them has a very, very quick, timely release. The other might loft the ball passed the arrows. Both average around 220 and they use a wide variety of equipment.

One more story.

We had a customer who remembers "how he used to bowl". Well, he is 76 years old and that "used to bowl" is a long time ago. He decided to drill a 12# Scout so he could throw the ball like he used to. Also, he decided to put all five fingers in the ball so he could "lift" it better. He brought that ball back a dozen times, finally stating: "The ball is making him the laughing stock of the league. It won't carry. Not only will it not carry but he leaves weird splits".

I couldn't take it any more, I bought the ball back. Kept it as a souvenir of sorts. One day, I decided to throw this thing, it was a pretty close fit.

First shot, 5-7, hmmmm. Second shot, 4-5-7, yikes. Third shot, 4-5-7-10, ouch.

But, on each of those shots, I felt something I hadn't felt before, ever. I lifted the ball. The ball was so light, my hand accelerated and left my fingers pointing to the sky. What? My normal release utilizes a "spring board" or "yo-yo" technique.

I modified my release, really had to focus on getting the ball off my hand, super fast.

The next six shots were strikes. In fact, the ball was hitting so hard, the bowlers on the nearby lanes were coming over and asking what kind of ball it was and worse, how heavy. lol

So, I totally agree with the assessment, layout and surface give a bowler the best opportunity on the lanes.

But................
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Re: Roto Grip Hyped Solid - #14 vs. #13

Post by jsluk »

TomaHawk and Eric,
Thanks and I really appreciate your thoughts and suggestions. I value your experience as I search for my next #13 bench mark ball.
Right handed
Lanes - synthetic;
14 mph off hand
Revs 300 rpm
AR - 50 to 70 degrees
AT - 17 degrees
PAP - 5" over 1/2" up
jsluk
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Posts: 122
Joined: October 3rd, 2010, 3:39 pm
THS Average: 175
Positive Axis Point: Right Handed - 5" over 1/2" up
Speed: 14 mph off hand
Rev Rate: 300
Axis Tilt: 17
Axis Rotation: 75
Heavy Oil Ball: Storm Virtual Gravity 40x4x40
Medium Oil Ball: MoRich Frenzy 70x5.5x60 P3; MoRich Craze 60x2.25x40 P2
Light Oil Ball: Radical Cyclops 115x1.75x45; Low Flare

Re: Roto Grip Hyped Solid - #14 vs. #13

Post by jsluk »

TomaHawk wrote: January 22nd, 2023, 2:04 am I felt something I hadn't felt before, ever. I lifted the ball. The ball was so light, my hand accelerated and left my fingers pointing to the sky. What? My normal release utilizes a "spring board" or "yo-yo" technique.
Quick questions. Pointing the fingers to the sky. Is it the same as hitting up on the ball? I hear the term hitting up but I don't know exactly what that's like. Also, care to elaborate more on the "spring board" or "yo-yo" technique? Thanks.
Right handed
Lanes - synthetic;
14 mph off hand
Revs 300 rpm
AR - 50 to 70 degrees
AT - 17 degrees
PAP - 5" over 1/2" up
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