Modifying Two-Handed Technique

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jegreco516
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Modifying Two-Handed Technique

Post by jegreco516 »

Hi all,

I have been bowling two-handed for a few years and am concerned the longevity of the technique for myself. I have some back issues that are relatively in check but I am interested in examining my technique options to ensure my physical health as I age. Due to a thumb injury, I prefer to bowl without a thumb which led me down the two-handed path. What I want to know is if there are potential modifications to this technique that can reduce stress to the lower back. Specifically, reduce forward and lateral spine tilt. I know that spine tilt is an essential piece of the two handed game but is it possible to stay more upright using this technique? I am fine with making sacrifices on rev rate and lane play options if a reduced spine tilt is possible. I would love to hear some input from coaches or fellow two-handers. Thank you!

Jeremy
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Re: Modifying Two-Handed Technique

Post by 44boyd »

They’d need a video to see what you’re doing from the side and back views. Kyle Troup seems to be the most upright out there.
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Re: Modifying Two-Handed Technique

Post by kajmk »

Jeremy, hopefully you have periodic wellness checks with your doctor. If you've not discussed your concerns, you might want to consider it. Also, letting the doctor see you in action via a short recording would be helpful. Your doctor or trainer can design a program for you to strengthen your core to help protect your back.

Don't overlook a fitness regimen. We all age differently and sometimes it becomes easier to hurt ourselves or just have parts wear out.I've had 3 injuries in the last 2 - 3 years 2 were probably in part just due to old parts ... My fitness level is above average but certainly not great. I think my fitness level lessened the severity of my injuries.

Include balance and stretching in your routine. Balance deterioration can be subtle.

Bowling fitness video



Balance and stretching I included this not because of age group but for the "Grapevine" routine at the end.



Since 44boyd cited Kyle Troup, here is an analysis by Rod Ross

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Re: Modifying Two-Handed Technique

Post by jegreco516 »

kajmk wrote: April 15th, 2021, 6:19 pm Jeremy, hopefully you have periodic wellness checks with your doctor. If you've not discussed your concerns, you might want to consider it. Also, letting the doctor see you in action via a short recording would be helpful. Your doctor or trainer can design a program for you to strengthen your core to help protect your back.

Don't overlook a fitness regimen. We all age differently and sometimes it becomes easier to hurt ourselves or just have parts wear out.I've had 3 injuries in the last 2 - 3 years 2 were probably in part just due to old parts ... My fitness level is above average but certainly not great. I think my fitness level lessened the severity of my injuries.

Include balance and stretching in your routine. Balance deterioration can be subtle.

Bowling fitness video



Balance and stretching I included this not because of age group but for the "Grapevine" routine at the end.



Since 44boyd cited Kyle Troup, here is an analysis by Rod Ross


It just so happens that I am a Strength and Conditioning Coach myself, so fitness is something I do support and participate in regularly. The pain presents itself with too much trunk flex ion and rotation. I will check out Kyle Troup for sure
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Re: Modifying Two-Handed Technique

Post by TomaHawk »

Did you turn to the two hand style because of thumb issues as mentioned in another thread?

Throwing a ball with two hands utilizes similar muscle groups to shoveling snow and throwing the snow 10 feet, straight ahead. The trajectory of snow would not be up or down, but on a flat plane with the lane. You can see where there is a considerable amount of physical force involved. Because of that scenario, it's hard to visualize someone with back issues executing a two hand release properly.
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Re: Modifying Two-Handed Technique

Post by jegreco516 »

TomaHawk wrote: April 15th, 2021, 11:09 pm Did you turn to the two hand style because of thumb issues as mentioned in another thread?

Throwing a ball with two hands utilizes similar muscle groups to shoveling snow and throwing the snow 10 feet, straight ahead. The trajectory of snow would not be up or down, but on a flat plane with the lane. You can see where there is a considerable amount of physical force involved. Because of that scenario, it's hard to visualize someone with back issues executing a two hand release properly.
I have been trying to learn both so that I can decide which to pursue. At this point I’m leaning towards a traditional one handed style due to my back. However, because of a previous thumb injury I am also limited (albeit not all the time). I am honestly frustrated with trying to find the right fit that allows minimal grip pressure. My PSO has been very helpful and accommodating but I still can’t figure it out. I have tried different taping techniques, and types of tape, and still can’t achieve pass the Don Johnson/Norm Duke grip test. On top of this, I am afraid of hanging in the ball and flying out onto the lanes. Sorry for the rant but it’s been frustrating for me to not be able to participate in such a great sport. Any feedback is greatly appreciated.
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Re: Modifying Two-Handed Technique

Post by TomaHawk »

You've probably tried a lot of different things.

Don't forget about the span, sometimes a shorter span allows a person to hold the ball more comfortably. There is more flexibility when fitting the hand for pitches too.
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Re: Modifying Two-Handed Technique

Post by jegreco516 »

TomaHawk wrote: April 16th, 2021, 12:22 am You've probably tried a lot of different things.

Don't forget about the span, sometimes a shorter span allows a person to hold the ball more comfortably. There is more flexibility when fitting the hand for pitches too.
I was told by my PSO that my span is somewhat shorter because of the lack of flexibility in my fingers. Maybe it was the pitches...When my thumb is in the ball the finger holes line up at a little more than halfway between my first and second joints. Is it possible that I need to go shorter given that info?
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Re: Modifying Two-Handed Technique

Post by TomaHawk »

jegreco516 wrote: April 16th, 2021, 12:57 am I was told by my PSO that my span is somewhat shorter because of the lack of flexibility in my fingers. Maybe it was the pitches...When my thumb is in the ball the finger holes line up at a little more than halfway between my first and second joints. Is it possible that I need to go shorter given that info?
Yes, it is possible that you (personally) could use a shorter span.
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Re: Modifying Two-Handed Technique

Post by jegreco516 »

TomaHawk wrote: April 16th, 2021, 11:57 am Yes, it is possible that you (personally) could use a shorter span.
Okay I will give that a shot
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Re: Modifying Two-Handed Technique

Post by TheJesus »

I once saw an Asian guy have the smoothest 2 handed approach i have even seen. If i find the video i will show it to you.

Alternatively, if you enough strength in your hands, you could try the Tom Daugherty way. Very unique, but he is 45 and still can do it.
Check out my bowling related YouTube channel ! BOWLING XP ! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1cTYc ... Eynuk0qdIw :mrgreen:
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Re: Modifying Two-Handed Technique

Post by JessN16 »

I'll post what I did on another board, regarding the question of whether two-handed bowling was "cheating":

---

I'm 48. My dad introduced me to the game at age 8. From age 8 to about age 43, I bowled one-handed. right-handed.

I was a decent bowler. Averaged 200+ for a couple of years, bowled some tournaments that I did well in (and many others that I didn't). I even learned how to drill my own equipment. Over time, I accumulated the usual "growing-old" ailments (bad knees from carrying too much weight + old baseball injuries, etc.), but one became so problematic as to give me with two choices: bowl two-handed or left-handed. Continuing to bowl right-handed was not in the cards.

Because of an old playground injury I suffered at age 12, and then from years of bad fits in my bowling equipment -- remember when the default setting for all bowlers was to stretch them out as far as possible on the ball? -- I developed severe tendonitis in my right wrist, including mild CTS. I have a knot on the back of my wrist between the fourth and fifth fingers the size of a marble. For years, I didn't have problems until about the 12th or 15th game of a tournament. Then it started hurting in the ninth game. Then the sixth. Then it was the last game of league. Then it was about the 17th frame of the night. Then the 8th. Finally, I couldn't get out of practice without pain.

But the turning point for me was one night when I bent over to pick up my then-two-year-old son, and my right wrist suddenly -- for lack of a better way to state it -- stopped working. It was like someone turned off a light switch that controlled my right hand. It was paralyzed and flopped backwards, and I nearly dropped my boy. I had the presence of mind to rotate my arm and shoulder and sort of catch him in a cradle position, something he began giggling at because he thought I'd done it on purpose. I was scared to death.

I made the decision right there that I was not going to endanger my son. I had also begun to get pain while typing, and I might not bowl for a living, but I do use a computer for a living. So my choices were switch to the other hand, or try two-handed for the heck of it -- or quit entirely. I decided on two-hand bowling for a couple of reasons: One, a friend of mine had switched from right- to left-handed because of a bad right shoulder, and then he tore up his left shoulder bowling. At age 50 or so, he could no longer lift something as simple as a chair at a restaurant without a lot of effort. The second reason, of course, was my stuff was already drilled for right-hand bowling, so at the time (this was pre-USBC change on extra holes in the ball) all I had to do was not put the thumb in.

And here's where I am now: No pain in the wrist. No knee pain. I've gotten rid of the knee braces I used to have to use while bowling. I don't have to use a wrist brace anymore. I still put on a band that is tight around my wrist, but that's it. I've never had back pain. The only "new" pain I had was a little bit of pain in the back of my right shoulder, but it went away after about a month of getting used to my new style; it was probably from using muscles I'd never used before as a one-hander.

My average, prior to the switchover, had fallen off all the way from 202 to the low 160s. My first year as a two-hander, it was about 135-140. I just finished my second year, and I jumped into the 150s, plus I bowled the best series I've bowled in nine years and one of the highest games I've bowled in a decade. I expect this year to get back to where I was when I made the switch, and then get better from there.

I'm using 14- and 15-pound equipment. But I drilled up a light ball (12 pounds) and continued to throw at the 10-pin with a thumb in the ball. I can get away with 5-10 of those shots a night still, but I'm transitioning over to shooting all spares two-handed. The problems going from one- to two-handed are all related to speed, at least in my case. My ball speed at the pins dropped from around 17 all the way to 11 at one point. I've now got it back up to 13.5 or so. My PAP changed a bunch (from 4 1/2 over, 3/8 up to 4 over, 2 down) so all my old layouts don't make sense anymore. I used to be a slightly speed-dominant stroker-tweener; now I've a rev-dominant cranker. My best attribute before was being able to play straight up the outside when I needed to; now, I'm best when I have to move left and throw right. My whole game has turned over backwards, so to speak.

But you know what? I'm having fun again. I'm reading, watching videos and learning again. Things I hadn't thought about in years, I'm now having to pay attention to like I was a beginner. But the best of all, is I don't hurt anymore. And the REALLY best thing of all -- I've got a chance to still be around when my son wants to bowl with his old dad. My dad was 65 when I was 16, and a world war and a car accident had led to a bad back, and he couldn't bowl with me very often (and never in competition). My boy is just 7 now, but maybe he's my future teammate. I will enjoy that more than anything if it comes to pass. He's just now learning the game, and he's better one-handed than two-handed, but he's still at the age where Daddy is his hero so he wants to throw with two hands like Daddy does and I'm going to teach it to him. Two-handed bowling has given me another chance at making this into a reality, so you can accuse me of cheating all you want, and all I'm going to do is look at you with a briar-eating grin on my face.

As far as health concerns go, so far, I think the fears over the long-term effects of two-handed bowling are overblown. We don't have any long-term data yet, so our natural inclination is to assume the worst. My personal bet is that the opposite will prove true.

Jess
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