How do you know when to drop down a weight?

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dougb
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How do you know when to drop down a weight?

Post by dougb »

I started out about 8 years ago with 14 lb balls and at some point switched to 15. I am 45 years old and have about 225 revs and slower speed. Sorry i don't know more on my stats. I am in good shape and exercise regularly but I am not a strong guy by any stretch of the imagine. Think classic stroker.

I've had coaching and work hard on my skills. Low ball speed is my biggest challenge. I mostly use weaker equipment and my "A" game is down and in, although I can move inside if need be. Of course playing the twig also requires keeping my speed up.

My question is: would there be any benefits to dropping back down to 14? What are the pros and cons? I am thinking in terms of ball speed and revs. I know that where I stand on the approach, my foot speed, and how high I hold the ball in the stance all impact speed, but I am wondering.

On a related note, I love/hate the idea of dropping down again. Love it because I would get a Brunswick Melee, Melee Cross, and Melee Jab and be all set for anything I see. Hate it because I have many classic balls that are almost irreplaceable and work well for me right now. Then again it would be nice to not have to think about what to bring with me to the lanes.
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Re: How do you know when to drop down a weight?

Post by MWhite »

dougb wrote:I started out about 8 years ago with 14 lb balls and at some point switched to 15. I am 45 years old and have about 225 revs and slower speed. Sorry i don't know more on my stats. I am in good shape and exercise regularly but I am not a strong guy by any stretch of the imagine. Think classic stroker.

I've had coaching and work hard on my skills. Low ball speed is my biggest challenge. I mostly use weaker equipment and my "A" game is down and in, although I can move inside if need be. Of course playing the twig also requires keeping my speed up.

My question is: would there be any benefits to dropping back down to 14? What are the pros and cons? I am thinking in terms of ball speed and revs. I know that where I stand on the approach, my foot speed, and how high I hold the ball in the stance all impact speed, but I am wondering.

On a related note, I love/hate the idea of dropping down again. Love it because I would get a Brunswick Melee, Melee Cross, and Melee Jab and be all set for anything I see. Hate it because I have many classic balls that are almost irreplaceable and work well for me right now. Then again it would be nice to not have to think about what to bring with me to the lanes.
If in dropping down you can generate more angle into the pocket, then it's ok.

If not, it might be better to move up to 16 lbs allowing you to carry a wider pocket with less angle.
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kajmk
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Re: How do you know when to drop down a weight?

Post by kajmk »

Hi Doug.
It is extremely important that you have your fit (spans, pitches, hole sizes and shapes) examined and analyzed by a well respected certified ball fitter (pro shop person)
This is like a preflight check. Don't take off without it.
A less than optimal grip will definitely Adversely affect most bowlers. There are always exceptions, humans being what they are.
Take your ball to the ball doctor first, I cannot stress this enough.
The grip affects A Lot, including the ability to apply rpms.
You can spin a regular size yo-yo no doubt.
What if that yo-yo did not fit your hand.

Lesson one in bowling should happen at the pro shop: how much grip pressure, a few test rolls to see if all is well, if OK, we are done, if not OK determine if its the bowler or the fit or both.
Time sometimes gets in the way.

A fellow that was multi time state bowler once gave me this demonstration: he simply held my wrist with what he said was correct grip pressure. I hardly felt a thing. There is a lot of finesse in this game, tension, squeezing, grabbing, do not allow this.

Be aware that you are used to the fit, all that means is that you've become acclimated, not that it is right for you.
Our bodies change. To an extent you can get used to a shoe that's too big or small, in the long run, that will most likely hurt you.

So step 1 get the fit checked. This is not a waste of time or money.

Good luck and let us know how things work out.

Also, for anyone that reads this forum, we are all unique, sobif you have known medical anomalies, or other things you'd think were physical challenges, make sure you state them, as answers are predicated on such things.

Take care.

PS, look up Missy Parkin bowling. How strong do you think she is? She uses 16 pound balls.
If you can have a relaxed grip, your swing will have minimal tension.
All I'm saying is that strength is only part of the equation.
Were all different, but most of us bowl best when we hold the ball like a baby bird, and use physics not abuse physics.
May all beings everywhere be happy and free,
and may the thoughts, words, and actions of my own life
contribute in some way to that happiness
and to that freedom for all.

John
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dougb
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Re: How do you know when to drop down a weight?

Post by dougb »

Thank you both for the thoughtful replies. I'm on my fourth fit and third driller.

After my first two fittings I had a real problem with my thumb getting hung up, leading me to come over the top of the ball frequently. During that time I also used a wrist brace.

Eventually I switched drillers and was refit with a new span, pitches, and a collier grip. I stopped using the brace and between the two saw improvement. But I still had the problem.

My next fit was using Mo's tubes and my span was shortened and again my pitches changed. At that point, I really saw the difference a good fit makes as I had shoulder pains I wasn't even aware of that disappeared.

Shortly after that, a local shop became the first in California to use Bill Hall's Tri Grip so I gave it a shot. Bill actually fit me himself. I can say that the Tri Grip is very natural for me and my average has gone up. The ball feels like I am wearing a glove. Many others here have had the same experience.

The only release issues I have these days is occasionally my wrist will break on the release and it kills the shot. But when I stay behind the ball I get very good motion. Hope this helps. I will also try and take a video.
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dougb
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Re: How do you know when to drop down a weight?

Post by dougb »

Well, I want to report back on my experiment. I had a credit at my shop so I picked up a 14 pound Pyramid Blood Moon for $20 and had him drill it up. My research showed this was a good benchmark ball for THS and lighter oil conditions, which is what I usually see. It has the same core as the 900 Global Jewel, so I figured I couldn't wrong and it would take the ball itself out of the experiment. I was right about that.

I've been using it for a couple of weeks now. No timing issues, no difference in speed, and no change in carry. Most importantly, no pain in my rotator cuff area or forearm. No fatigue. I don't crap out after 3 or 4 games and can just keep going.

I didn't change my grip except to ditch finger inserts (a good change, but that's another post). Because I used lifts this brought the pitch forward 1/4". So I feel pretty comfortable saying that dropping a pound was the right thing to do and it was not due to my fit. Of course I could be wrong!

Now it's time to sell off my 15s!

BTW, Pyramid got it right with this ball. I've never thrown one of their balls before, but if you want smooth, predictable, easily tuneable cover, and good carry in a benchmark then this is a winner!
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Re: How do you know when to drop down a weight?

Post by TonyPR »

Doug, about your speed, do you have a loose and free swing dictated by gravity? About a year ago when I came back to bowling and was bowling 1 handed I started with low speed (14 mph monitor). A coach suggested I learn how to free up my swing, now I can swing it one handed at 17.5 mph monitor speed with much less effort than muscling it at 14 mph. Hope this helps.
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Re: How do you know when to drop down a weight?

Post by ads »

I am transiting from 15lb to 14lb.

With 15lb balls, my ball speed drops after 3/4 games especially if I play consecutively for 2, 3 days, or after a long working day. 14lb balls give me relief but speed control is important when playing on fresh. Also, I need a relatively loose thumb hole for 14lb balls.

My teammates commented that they see no differences of the hitting power (actually the 14lb is slight better). They didn't notice that it is 14lb until I told them.

I still keep my 15lb balls for longer pattern and leagues. Timing adjustment is a challenge swapping between 14lb and 15lb but challenge is fun.
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Re: How do you know when to drop down a weight?

Post by PyramidBowling »

dougb wrote:Well, I want to report back on my experiment. I had a credit at my shop so I picked up a 14 pound Pyramid Blood Moon for $20 and had him drill it up. My research showed this was a good benchmark ball for THS and lighter oil conditions, which is what I usually see. It has the same core as the 900 Global Jewel, so I figured I couldn't wrong and it would take the ball itself out of the experiment. I was right about that.

I've been using it for a couple of weeks now. No timing issues, no difference in speed, and no change in carry. Most importantly, no pain in my rotator cuff area or forearm. No fatigue. I don't crap out after 3 or 4 games and can just keep going.

I didn't change my grip except to ditch finger inserts (a good change, but that's another post). Because I used lifts this brought the pitch forward 1/4". So I feel pretty comfortable saying that dropping a pound was the right thing to do and it was not due to my fit. Of course I could be wrong!

Now it's time to sell off my 15s!

BTW, Pyramid got it right with this ball. I've never thrown one of their balls before, but if you want smooth, predictable, easily tuneable cover, and good carry in a benchmark then this is a winner!
Doug,

We're extremely glad to hear that the weight change has been a success and that the Blood Moon is working well for you. We appreciate you giving Pyramid a shot and we hope you'll consider us in the future for adding to your arsenal. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask!
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Re: How do you know when to drop down a weight?

Post by Qman »

I made the mistake of going back up from 14 to 15# a couple years ago and now have the tendonitis to prove it. Went down to a 13# ball and could tell the difference right away. Not just in weight but carry. Since most if not all 14# balls have the same cores as the 15 and 16 # balls you will have to be able to find a speed that will kick the corner pins out like the 15 and 16#'s. Same goes for the 13# balls since most of those cores are generic in nature. Like my Optimus pearl is a 13# ball with the centripital core that is in many other Storm balls and one of the better cores produced but different than the trishpere core in the 14-16#'s. In order for me to carry well I have to throw it alot slower than the 14-16# equipment even though I have a low-med rev rate. I am at the mercy of two things in my career : Just turned 50 and the body is wearing down. I have to have carpal tunnel surgery at the end of the month but my tendonitis will still be there.
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