*NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
Moderators: Mo Pinel, purduepaul, MathIsTruth, ballspinner
Forum rules
Ask Mo Pinel and the bowling industry's best your questions, and get straight answers.
This forum is moderated exclusively by Mo & Friends.
Ask Mo Pinel and the bowling industry's best your questions, and get straight answers.
This forum is moderated exclusively by Mo & Friends.
- MegaMav
- Moderator
- Posts: 4694
- Joined: April 27th, 2007, 5:00 am
- THS Average: 225
- Sport Average: 200
- Positive Axis Point: 5.5 Over & 1 Up
- Speed: 16.0 MPH - Camera
- Rev Rate: 375
- Axis Tilt: 14
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical - Informer
- Medium Oil Ball: Brunswick - Fearless
- Light Oil Ball: Radical - Bonus Pearl
- Preferred Company: Radical Bowling Technologies
- Location: Malta, NY
*NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
New and exciting things in the world of ball motion.
Below is a 12 minute video describing the Motion Hole.
(This video is now LIVE!)
Available in 1080p HD.
[youtube][/youtube]
I'd like to thank Mo for the opportunity to make a video on this new dynamic layout.
I hope everyone gives it a try, especially on a new Radical bowling ball.
Below is a 12 minute video describing the Motion Hole.
(This video is now LIVE!)
Available in 1080p HD.
[youtube][/youtube]
I'd like to thank Mo for the opportunity to make a video on this new dynamic layout.
I hope everyone gives it a try, especially on a new Radical bowling ball.
Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
Bring back the "Observation & Reality" thread: Mo has been spending some time in the "Pin nel zone" again- you know, that "twilight zone" area between hard science and the creative investigation of the given phenomena.
First we had "pin out", "pin in" and "pin nel". Now we have "pin up", "pin down" "pin side" and a "pin nel" hole. Father time is not slowing down Mo nor the other "mad scientist" Carmen Salvino, the "spook" himself. No nursing home for these "old farts" Just think, they work for the same company now. Lets put them a room together and watch "the creative smarts" runneth over.
First we had "pin out", "pin in" and "pin nel". Now we have "pin up", "pin down" "pin side" and a "pin nel" hole. Father time is not slowing down Mo nor the other "mad scientist" Carmen Salvino, the "spook" himself. No nursing home for these "old farts" Just think, they work for the same company now. Lets put them a room together and watch "the creative smarts" runneth over.
-Gary Parsons
If one does not know one's product, one can not manage nor promote the product one does not know.
If one does not know one's product, one can not manage nor promote the product one does not know.
- scotts33
- Member
- Posts: 802
- Joined: August 13th, 2009, 12:30 pm
- Positive Axis Point: 4 7/8" > 3/8" up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 325
- Axis Tilt: 17
- Axis Rotation: 60
- Heavy Oil Ball: Motiv T10 LE 60* 4" 60* no hole symm. OOB pin down
- Location: Madison, WI
Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
Thanks for doinjg this Eric! Rory Holland did this and tried to explain it to me. Your video helped explained it much better.
Scott
Scott
Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
What would be the consequence of drilling the hole when the pin isn't over the ring or to the side of it?
PAP- 4 1/8 over, 3/4 up
Speed - 17-18 monitor
Rev Rate - 475
Rotation - 65
Tilt - 12
Speed - 17-18 monitor
Rev Rate - 475
Rotation - 65
Tilt - 12
- Triplicate
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1410
- Joined: September 2nd, 2010, 12:04 am
- THS Average: 220
- Positive Axis Point: 5 1/2 x 1 1/2
- Speed: 16-18 at Foul Line
- Rev Rate: 300
- Axis Tilt: 7-10
- Axis Rotation: 45+-
- Location: Canada
Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
Thanks to everyone for sharing and all the hard work that went into this.
Was this inspired in part by the Voodoo layout weight hole also around the back of the ball?
I'm going to simulate this for both the less than 5" PAP and greater than 5". I have no idea where this will lead but it should be a fun exercise. I have all the details of my Voodoo layout to compare this with as well.
I'm going to use the exact layout in the video for the less than 5" PAP example and I'll use my specs for the over 5" PAP simulation. Stay tuned.
Any thoughts before I get into this?
Was this inspired in part by the Voodoo layout weight hole also around the back of the ball?
I'm going to simulate this for both the less than 5" PAP and greater than 5". I have no idea where this will lead but it should be a fun exercise. I have all the details of my Voodoo layout to compare this with as well.
I'm going to use the exact layout in the video for the less than 5" PAP example and I'll use my specs for the over 5" PAP simulation. Stay tuned.
Any thoughts before I get into this?
High Game - 300 (20), 299 (10), 298 (2), 11 in a row (18)
High Series - (278 Triplicate) = 834 (9)
HOF induction - 2 (1 Local and 1 Provincial)
Is this helpful? Then Click the on the bottom right.
High Series - (278 Triplicate) = 834 (9)
HOF induction - 2 (1 Local and 1 Provincial)
Is this helpful? Then Click the on the bottom right.
-
- Member
- Posts: 288
- Joined: May 8th, 2011, 7:55 pm
- THS Average: 213
- Positive Axis Point: 4 5/8 > 5/8 up
- Speed: 16-17mph on monitor
- Rev Rate: 320
- Axis Tilt: 11*
- Axis Rotation: 55*
- Heavy Oil Ball: Storm Nano
- Medium Oil Ball: Bruswick maxxed out
- Light Oil Ball: Storm Firestorm
- Location: Atkinson Il
Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
That was my first thought was the Voodoo layout. Im curious to see this "mechanical advantage" in your simulation.Triplicate wrote:Thanks to everyone for sharing and all the hard work that went into this.
Was this inspired in part by the Voodoo layout weight hole also around the back of the ball?
I'm going to simulate this for both the less than 5" PAP and greater than 5". I have no idea where this will lead but it should be a fun exercise. I have all the details of my Voodoo layout to compare this with as well.
I'm going to use the exact layout in the video for the less than 5" PAP example and I'll use my specs for the over 5" PAP simulation. Stay tuned.
Any thoughts before I get into this?
pap: 4 5/8" over -5/8" up
speed: 17-18mph off hand
rev rate: 320
axis rotation: 55*
axis tilt: 11-13*
years bowling: 6
league average: 213
high game: 300
high series: 792
speed: 17-18mph off hand
rev rate: 320
axis rotation: 55*
axis tilt: 11-13*
years bowling: 6
league average: 213
high game: 300
high series: 792
Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
Awesome! Triplicate, please collect data on entry angle and rolling distance from Blueprint. Also it would be great if you can test this on a speed dominate bowler stats, say 18 MPH and 200 rpm with average rotations and tilt.
Also see what happens if you move that hole around a couple of inches up-down or right-left.
Does anyone have an explanation on why the different distances for asym or sym?
Also see what happens if you move that hole around a couple of inches up-down or right-left.
Does anyone have an explanation on why the different distances for asym or sym?
Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
is there any way we can get a comparisson between a p4 aggressive, and MOtion hole?
- Triplicate
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1410
- Joined: September 2nd, 2010, 12:04 am
- THS Average: 220
- Positive Axis Point: 5 1/2 x 1 1/2
- Speed: 16-18 at Foul Line
- Rev Rate: 300
- Axis Tilt: 7-10
- Axis Rotation: 45+-
- Location: Canada
Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
These are already some good thoughts so keep this coming. I'll hold off doing this for a while to collect more of these kind of comments. By doing so I can come up with meeting most of the requests in one session.
High Game - 300 (20), 299 (10), 298 (2), 11 in a row (18)
High Series - (278 Triplicate) = 834 (9)
HOF induction - 2 (1 Local and 1 Provincial)
Is this helpful? Then Click the on the bottom right.
High Series - (278 Triplicate) = 834 (9)
HOF induction - 2 (1 Local and 1 Provincial)
Is this helpful? Then Click the on the bottom right.
-
- Member
- Posts: 94
- Joined: February 9th, 2010, 1:21 am
- Positive Axis Point: 5 1/2" over, 7/8" up
- Speed: 13-14 mph at Camera
- Rev Rate: 250
- Axis Tilt: 13
- Axis Rotation: 75
- Location: 48912
Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
My guess is it has to do with the PSA of the ball before drilling the balance hole. The PSA on a symmetric ball isn't as locked in as it is on a strong asymmetric core, thus the 1" shift when laying out one versus the other.xclusix wrote:
Does anyone have an explanation on why the different distances for asym or sym?
- MathIsTruth
- Industry Professional
- Posts: 548
- Joined: January 19th, 2010, 5:18 pm
- Preferred Company: MoRich/Radical
- Location: Washington, WV
Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
Not in the slightest!Triplicate wrote:
Was this inspired in part by the Voodoo layout weight hole also around the back of the ball?
- MathIsTruth
- Industry Professional
- Posts: 548
- Joined: January 19th, 2010, 5:18 pm
- Preferred Company: MoRich/Radical
- Location: Washington, WV
Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
J_Mac wrote: My guess is it has to do with the PSA of the ball before drilling the balance hole. The PSA on a symmetric ball isn't as locked in as it is on a strong asymmetric core, thus the 1" shift when laying out one versus the other.
The different distances are used because of differences in bowtie locations and track flares between symms and asymms. Results from our core shape studies over the past year or so led us to the idea of using the MOtion Hole technique. We have performed extensive CAD modeling to study the effects on mass properties before applying the technique in person and studying the real world situation with several bowlers. Megamav's video is the first to show the effects of the MOtion Hole. I think it clearly showed the potential of increased ball motion and I thank him for his work, especially on calculating spin times.
- ICURNVS
- Member
- Posts: 457
- Joined: December 28th, 2010, 9:28 pm
- THS Average: 220
- Positive Axis Point: 4 1/2 -> 3/4 up
- Speed: 16.8 Monitor
- Rev Rate: 350
- Axis Tilt: 11
- Axis Rotation: 30
- Heavy Oil Ball: Zen Master
- Medium Oil Ball: Power Torq / UFO Alert / Honey Badger Revival
- Light Oil Ball: Marvel Pearl / Stellar
- Preferred Company: What ever is on Sale
- Location: Canton, Ohio
Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
For a Asym ball would u draw the line from the marked PSA on the ball or where it spins up on the determinator?
** UPDATED STATS AS OF 6-06-19 **
Right Hand
PAP 4 1/2-> 3/4 up
ROTATION 20 - 30
TILT 11.5*
MPH 14.5-15.2 MONITOR
RPM 350-375
RIP Visionary Bowling Products.....
Right Hand
PAP 4 1/2-> 3/4 up
ROTATION 20 - 30
TILT 11.5*
MPH 14.5-15.2 MONITOR
RPM 350-375
RIP Visionary Bowling Products.....
- MegaMav
- Moderator
- Posts: 4694
- Joined: April 27th, 2007, 5:00 am
- THS Average: 225
- Sport Average: 200
- Positive Axis Point: 5.5 Over & 1 Up
- Speed: 16.0 MPH - Camera
- Rev Rate: 375
- Axis Tilt: 14
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical - Informer
- Medium Oil Ball: Brunswick - Fearless
- Light Oil Ball: Radical - Bonus Pearl
- Preferred Company: Radical Bowling Technologies
- Location: Malta, NY
Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
If you have a determinator, use the PSA from that.ICURNVS wrote:For a Asym ball would u draw the line from the marked PSA on the ball or where it spins up on the determinator?
Otherwise, if you dont have a determinator, you'll eventually figure out the hard way that you'll have to move the tape one way or another because the tape keeps thumping on the backend.
In theory the PSA marked should be close, but I've seen some rare ones off by an inch or more.
- ICURNVS
- Member
- Posts: 457
- Joined: December 28th, 2010, 9:28 pm
- THS Average: 220
- Positive Axis Point: 4 1/2 -> 3/4 up
- Speed: 16.8 Monitor
- Rev Rate: 350
- Axis Tilt: 11
- Axis Rotation: 30
- Heavy Oil Ball: Zen Master
- Medium Oil Ball: Power Torq / UFO Alert / Honey Badger Revival
- Light Oil Ball: Marvel Pearl / Stellar
- Preferred Company: What ever is on Sale
- Location: Canton, Ohio
Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
on under 5" PAP you wanted the pin above the ring finger, just looking at what I have laying around would this layout work?
or is the pin too high.
http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk27 ... photo1.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
or is the pin too high.
http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk27 ... photo1.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
** UPDATED STATS AS OF 6-06-19 **
Right Hand
PAP 4 1/2-> 3/4 up
ROTATION 20 - 30
TILT 11.5*
MPH 14.5-15.2 MONITOR
RPM 350-375
RIP Visionary Bowling Products.....
Right Hand
PAP 4 1/2-> 3/4 up
ROTATION 20 - 30
TILT 11.5*
MPH 14.5-15.2 MONITOR
RPM 350-375
RIP Visionary Bowling Products.....
- MegaMav
- Moderator
- Posts: 4694
- Joined: April 27th, 2007, 5:00 am
- THS Average: 225
- Sport Average: 200
- Positive Axis Point: 5.5 Over & 1 Up
- Speed: 16.0 MPH - Camera
- Rev Rate: 375
- Axis Tilt: 14
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical - Informer
- Medium Oil Ball: Brunswick - Fearless
- Light Oil Ball: Radical - Bonus Pearl
- Preferred Company: Radical Bowling Technologies
- Location: Malta, NY
Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
Draw the line from the Thumb hole to the pin, then extend the line far around the ball.ICURNVS wrote:on under 5" PAP you wanted the pin above the ring finger, just looking at what I have laying around would this layout work?
or is the pin too high.
http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk27 ... photo1.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Measure 10" from the Pin on that line and tape it.
Throw it, then trace the flare and find out.
I have exactly one ball experience with this balance hole location.
Find out, the worst thing that happens is, you waste a piece of tape.
Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
Would this be overkill on a ball with a Diff ratio of over 50%? Would highly polished pieces tend to be a little too skid snap and squirty with this enhancement?
Nice vid, Eric!
Nice vid, Eric!
=======================================================
RevZ
RevZ
-
- Member
- Posts: 127
- Joined: January 26th, 2010, 3:31 am
- THS Average: 214
- Positive Axis Point: 4" Left - 1"^
- Speed: 18-19 (off hand)
- Rev Rate: 275
- Axis Tilt: 23*
- Axis Rotation: 50+-
- Preferred Company: Morich, Radical
- Location: Nicholasville, KY
Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
Good work Eric
Thanks to Mo, MathIsTruth and everyone else involved.
KyBOB
________________________________
STATS:
LH
PAP = 4"< x 1"^
Speed = 18-19 off hand
Rev Rate = 250-275
AR = 45*-50*
AT = 23*
________________________________
STATS:
LH
PAP = 4"< x 1"^
Speed = 18-19 off hand
Rev Rate = 250-275
AR = 45*-50*
AT = 23*
Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
Great video. Can't wait to try this out!!
* MPH @ aarows
* RPM
AR *
AT *
PAP 3 3/4"
(* rebuilding)
“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
― Neil deGrasse Tyson
* RPM
AR *
AT *
PAP 3 3/4"
(* rebuilding)
“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
― Neil deGrasse Tyson
-
- Member
- Posts: 190
- Joined: January 27th, 2010, 12:40 am
- Positive Axis Point: 3 1/2 up 1/2
- Speed: 18-20 off the hand
- Rev Rate: 220
- Axis Tilt: 23
- Heavy Oil Ball: DestroyerR,LevRg
- Medium Oil Ball: taboo,Aggressive Motion
- Light Oil Ball: Insane Leverage,Solid Leverage
- Location: Pasadena,Md
Re: *NEW* - MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration
I have tried the MOtion hole on 3 balls(PM,DestroyR,and Mightmare)I had the pleasure about two months ago to try this out with Mo.It was very informative to watch Mo collect his data on the change and effect of adding the hole.
We drilled a PM and then went and found my strike line,marked the flare rings and added a MOtion hole.The next ball was brooklyn.I had to make a 6 and 2 move left.
The DestroyR and Nightmare I have not been able to use successfully due to the fact I am not that consistent playing that far left yet.They are too much ball for a house shot.Looking forward to seeing the reaction on a sport shot this summer.
The hole definetely increases the reaction off the dry.
I would definetely recommend every speed dominate bowler to try this hole.I have around 250 revs with a ball speed of 18-19 mph off my hand and 26* of tilt.
The PM has become the first ball out of my bag.My other PM with a p4 is still too weak for me except on a broke down shot.
Nice video Eric.
We drilled a PM and then went and found my strike line,marked the flare rings and added a MOtion hole.The next ball was brooklyn.I had to make a 6 and 2 move left.
The DestroyR and Nightmare I have not been able to use successfully due to the fact I am not that consistent playing that far left yet.They are too much ball for a house shot.Looking forward to seeing the reaction on a sport shot this summer.
The hole definetely increases the reaction off the dry.
I would definetely recommend every speed dominate bowler to try this hole.I have around 250 revs with a ball speed of 18-19 mph off my hand and 26* of tilt.
The PM has become the first ball out of my bag.My other PM with a p4 is still too weak for me except on a broke down shot.
Nice video Eric.