Thoughts on the Motiv Cruel/ layout/ sweetspot disscusion
Moderator: Moderators
- TOP5
- BCU Graduate Layouts
- Posts: 197
- Joined: August 22nd, 2011, 4:31 pm
- THS Average: 220
- Positive Axis Point: 5.5 x .5 up
- Speed: 18
- Rev Rate: 350
- Axis Tilt: 10
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Raptor Tallon
- Medium Oil Ball: Thrash
- Light Oil Ball: QZ2 Backdraft
- Preferred Company: motiv
Thoughts on the Motiv Cruel/ layout/ sweetspot disscusion
I got a used Motiv Cruel from someone who didn't like it. If I was to plug and re-drill the thumb the layout will be 65 x 3 3/4 x 60 P2 hole. If I was to plug fingers and thumb I'm thinking I would give it my benchmark layout 65 x 3 1/4 x 40 P2 or my control layout 75 x 3 1/4 x 50 P2. Im am even thinking of long and strong 90 x 3 1/4 x 35 P2. I’m hoping to get opinions from Mo, JustinWi, or anyone else who has experience with this ball. I am open to suggestions
my stats:
RH
350 rpm
18 mph
45* rotation
10* tilt
pap 5 1/2 over 1 up
my stats:
RH
350 rpm
18 mph
45* rotation
10* tilt
pap 5 1/2 over 1 up
Last edited by TOP5 on March 10th, 2012, 10:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
- Mo Pinel
- Rest In Peace
- Posts: 10054
- Joined: January 26th, 2010, 6:10 pm
- Preferred Company: MoRich, & now RADICAL BT
- Location: Richmond, VA
Re: Thoughts on the Motiv Cruel/ layout advise
JustinWi is our Motiv guy! Help Justin!TOP5 wrote:I got a used Motiv Cruel from someone who didn't like it. If I was to plug and re-drill the thumb the layout will be 65 x 3 3/4 x 60 P2 hole. If I was to plug fingers and thumb I'm thinking I would give it my benchmark layout 65 x 3 1/4 x 40 P2 or my control layout 75 x 3 1/4 x 50 P2. Im am even thinking of long and strong 90 x 3 1/4 x 35 P2. I’m hoping to get opinions from Mo, JustinWi, or anyone else who has experience with this ball. I am open to suggestions
my stats:
RH
350 rpm
18 mph
45* rotation
10* tilt
pap 5 1/2 over 1 up
Rest In Peace (1942-2021)
- MegaMav
- Moderator
- Posts: 4694
- Joined: April 27th, 2007, 5:00 am
- THS Average: 225
- Sport Average: 200
- Positive Axis Point: 5.5 Over & 1 Up
- Speed: 16.0 MPH - Camera
- Rev Rate: 375
- Axis Tilt: 14
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical - Informer
- Medium Oil Ball: Brunswick - Fearless
- Light Oil Ball: Radical - Bonus Pearl
- Preferred Company: Radical Bowling Technologies
- Location: Malta, NY
Re: Thoughts on the Motiv Cruel/ layout advise Help JustinWi
You may want to PM him.
- JustinWi
- Member
- Posts: 303
- Joined: September 28th, 2010, 11:53 pm
- THS Average: 218
- Positive Axis Point: 5" Over, 1" up
- Speed: 18.5
- Rev Rate: 477
- Axis Tilt: 8
- Axis Rotation: 50
- Preferred Company: Motiv
- Location: Rochester, NY
Re: Thoughts on the Motiv Cruel/ layout advise Help JustinWi
I spent the last week in Alabama dodging Tornadoes, sorry for the delay.
60x30@3" has been extremely successful on the Cruel, as well as 70x50@5.5". Former for smoother reaction, latter for more tip on the back.
60x30@3" has been extremely successful on the Cruel, as well as 70x50@5.5". Former for smoother reaction, latter for more tip on the back.
- TOP5
- BCU Graduate Layouts
- Posts: 197
- Joined: August 22nd, 2011, 4:31 pm
- THS Average: 220
- Positive Axis Point: 5.5 x .5 up
- Speed: 18
- Rev Rate: 350
- Axis Tilt: 10
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Raptor Tallon
- Medium Oil Ball: Thrash
- Light Oil Ball: QZ2 Backdraft
- Preferred Company: motiv
Re: Thoughts on the Motiv Cruel/ layout advise Help JustinWi
Thanks justin for your response. I have a question about the 70x50@5.5 layout. I don't understand the 5.5 pin to pap. with my release stats being what they are would that pin position get my ball rolling forward too early? I thought longer pin distances on asymmetrical cores are for higher tilt players. is there something I am missing? others are welcomed to chime in too if they wantJustinWi wrote:I spent the last week in Alabama dodging Tornadoes, sorry for the delay.
60x30@3" has been extremely successful on the Cruel, as well as 70x50@5.5". Former for smoother reaction, latter for more tip on the back.
-
- Pro Shop
- Posts: 711
- Joined: December 16th, 2010, 5:05 am
- Heavy Oil Ball: Motiv Cruel or Mutant Cell Pearl
- Medium Oil Ball: Rising Star
- Light Oil Ball: Silver Recon or Frenzy
- Location: WV
Re: Thoughts on the Motiv Cruel/ layout advise Help JustinWi
Just from personal experience, I prefer going with shorter pin distances on 'big dog' equipment like the cruel. 2.5-3.5 inch Pin to Pap, with 1.75-2:1 ratios. Of course each person is as different as the houses we bowl in.
- MegaMav
- Moderator
- Posts: 4694
- Joined: April 27th, 2007, 5:00 am
- THS Average: 225
- Sport Average: 200
- Positive Axis Point: 5.5 Over & 1 Up
- Speed: 16.0 MPH - Camera
- Rev Rate: 375
- Axis Tilt: 14
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical - Informer
- Medium Oil Ball: Brunswick - Fearless
- Light Oil Ball: Radical - Bonus Pearl
- Preferred Company: Radical Bowling Technologies
- Location: Malta, NY
Re: Thoughts on the Motiv Cruel/ layout advise Help JustinWi
If you dont know what you want out of it, use your asymmetric benchmark and tune it with a gradient line balance hole and surface..
- JustinWi
- Member
- Posts: 303
- Joined: September 28th, 2010, 11:53 pm
- THS Average: 218
- Positive Axis Point: 5" Over, 1" up
- Speed: 18.5
- Rev Rate: 477
- Axis Tilt: 8
- Axis Rotation: 50
- Preferred Company: Motiv
- Location: Rochester, NY
Re: Thoughts on the Motiv Cruel/ layout advise Help JustinWi
350/18 is a bit speed dominant, quick tilt burn might get the 10pin out and transition itself a bit better on oil than something that retains longer and hits in the roll stage.
Those 2 layouts mentioned have had the most success over time, pick which one you feel more comfortable with and punch some holes.
Those 2 layouts mentioned have had the most success over time, pick which one you feel more comfortable with and punch some holes.
- TOP5
- BCU Graduate Layouts
- Posts: 197
- Joined: August 22nd, 2011, 4:31 pm
- THS Average: 220
- Positive Axis Point: 5.5 x .5 up
- Speed: 18
- Rev Rate: 350
- Axis Tilt: 10
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Raptor Tallon
- Medium Oil Ball: Thrash
- Light Oil Ball: QZ2 Backdraft
- Preferred Company: motiv
Re: Thoughts on the Motiv Cruel/ layout advise Help JustinWi
MegaMav wrote:If you dont know what you want out of it, use your asymmetric benchmark and tune it with a gradient line balance hole and surface..
StrikeTheory wrote:Just from personal experience, I prefer going with shorter pin distances on 'big dog' equipment like the cruel. 2.5-3.5 inch Pin to Pap, with 1.75-2:1 ratios. Of course each person is as different as the houses we bowl in.
JustinWi wrote:I spent the last week in Alabama dodging Tornadoes, sorry for the delay.
60x30@3" has been extremely successful on the Cruel, as well as 70x50@5.5". Former for smoother reaction, latter for more tip on the back.
I will get the ball plugged and during that time I will make a decision on how to punch it thanks for your advise everybody. I will report back after I throw itJustinWi wrote:350/18 is a bit speed dominant, quick tilt burn might get the 10pin out and transition itself a bit better on oil than something that retains longer and hits in the roll stage.
Those 2 layouts mentioned have had the most success over time, pick which one you feel more comfortable with and punch some holes.
- TOP5
- BCU Graduate Layouts
- Posts: 197
- Joined: August 22nd, 2011, 4:31 pm
- THS Average: 220
- Positive Axis Point: 5.5 x .5 up
- Speed: 18
- Rev Rate: 350
- Axis Tilt: 10
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Raptor Tallon
- Medium Oil Ball: Thrash
- Light Oil Ball: QZ2 Backdraft
- Preferred Company: motiv
Re: Thoughts on the Motiv Cruel/ layout discussion
according to the Dual Angle Sweetspot Guide pdf in the wiki 350/18 would be a bit rev dominant. There is a also the Dual Angle Sweetspot summary in the wiki and according to that 350/18 is balanced. I layout my equipment based on an angle sum of 110 and adjust from there. I am curious as to why we come up with something different. is there new info on the relationship between speed and revolutions. If there a different method I should be using I would like to know.JustinWi wrote:350/18 is a bit speed dominant
others may comment too if they want
- JustinWi
- Member
- Posts: 303
- Joined: September 28th, 2010, 11:53 pm
- THS Average: 218
- Positive Axis Point: 5" Over, 1" up
- Speed: 18.5
- Rev Rate: 477
- Axis Tilt: 8
- Axis Rotation: 50
- Preferred Company: Motiv
- Location: Rochester, NY
Re: Thoughts on the Motiv Cruel/ layout/ sweetspot disscusio
Memory is saying 17/350 at the hand as balanced, I'll have to double check on that one.
- kellytehuna
- Senior Member
- Posts: 2891
- Joined: January 18th, 2010, 11:11 pm
- THS Average: 195
- Positive Axis Point: 3.75", 1" up
- Speed: 18
- Rev Rate: 480
- Axis Tilt: 17
- Axis Rotation: 40
- Heavy Oil Ball: Morich DestroyR
- Medium Oil Ball: Morich Perpetual Motion
- Light Oil Ball: Morich Mojave
- Preferred Company: Morich
- Location: Hazard, KY
Re: Thoughts on the Motiv Cruel/ layout/ sweetspot disscusio
350/18 is matched.
Father, Husband, Bowler, Web developer
15lb Morich DestroyR, Mania, Perpetual Motion, Craze, Frenzy, Mojave
15lb Radical Yeti
15lb Brunswick Slingshot, Avalanche Urethane
Highest score: 279
Highest series: 818
15lb Morich DestroyR, Mania, Perpetual Motion, Craze, Frenzy, Mojave
15lb Radical Yeti
15lb Brunswick Slingshot, Avalanche Urethane
Highest score: 279
Highest series: 818
- Mo Pinel
- Rest In Peace
- Posts: 10054
- Joined: January 26th, 2010, 6:10 pm
- Preferred Company: MoRich, & now RADICAL BT
- Location: Richmond, VA
Re: Thoughts on the Motiv Cruel/ layout/ sweetspot disscusio
I wholeheartedly agree!kellytehuna wrote:350/18 is matched.
Rest In Peace (1942-2021)
- JustinWi
- Member
- Posts: 303
- Joined: September 28th, 2010, 11:53 pm
- THS Average: 218
- Positive Axis Point: 5" Over, 1" up
- Speed: 18.5
- Rev Rate: 477
- Axis Tilt: 8
- Axis Rotation: 50
- Preferred Company: Motiv
- Location: Rochester, NY
Re: Thoughts on the Motiv Cruel/ layout/ sweetspot disscusio
I stand corrected, updating the old memory bank