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 Post subject: compromising dual angle sums
 Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 4:11 am Post Number: #1 Post
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I am having problems with how to compromise sums of drilling angles. for example: speed dominant bowlers use small angle sums.
low tilt bowlers use large angle sums.
How would you compromise and determine what angles to use for someone who stands right and fires rockets to the pocket with no tilt.
for example:rev dominant bowlers use large angle sums.
high tilt bowlers use small angle sums.
Is there kind of a rule of thumb? or do you you just need experience kind of hit and miss till you get it right?
I apologize if I missed a forum that covered this. I have been searching but could not find one.


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 Post subject: Re: compromising dual angle sums
 Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 4:23 am Post Number: #2 Post
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elgavachon wrote:
I am having problems with how to compromise sums of drilling angles. for example: speed dominant bowlers use small angle sums.
low tilt bowlers use large angle sums.
How would you compromise and determine what angles to use for someone who stands right and fires rockets to the pocket with no tilt.
for example:rev dominant bowlers use large angle sums.
high tilt bowlers use small angle sums.
Is there kind of a rule of thumb? or do you you just need experience kind of hit and miss till you get it right?
I apologize if I missed a forum that covered this. I have been searching but could not find one.


You confused me a little with the word "compromise". I believe the word you're looking for is "comprise". In answer to your question, Mo has several examples of how he makes his decisions for people based on their specs. I am yet to get a handle on this stuff myself, but I'm getting there... I think ;)

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 Post subject: Re: compromising dual angle sums
 Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 4:41 am Post Number: #3 Post
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thanks Kellytehuna I appreciate you explaining anything you have gotten figured out.


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 Post subject: Re: compromising dual angle sums
 Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:07 am Post Number: #4 Post
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Well, as I understand it, excess rotation or tilt basically translates to higher speed. I'm guessing due to the increased skid you get from each. So with that in mind if you have a slowish ball speed, but have high rotation and/or tilt, the reaction on the lane would be like you had a little more speed. This kind of "skews" the speed/revs relationship a little. Having said all that, I couldn't tell you how much those factors affect that relationship.

I'm yet to learn how to determine the sweet spot for the sum of angles based on the speed/revs relationship, but it would seem someone with a good match would be around 100* or so, while someone that heavily speed dominant will be closer to 70* and someone that is heavily rev dominant would be 130*.

That's kind of what I get out of it, but like I said, I'm not expert. Someone like Paul or Mo, or anybody else who uses the Dual Angle Layout technique in the real world, will be able to give you a more succinct answer. I hope that gets a bit of a start though.

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 Post subject: Re: compromising dual angle sums
 Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:25 am Post Number: #5 Post
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thanks alot. that was really helpful.


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 Post subject: Re: compromising dual angle sums
 Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 6:50 am Post Number: #6 Post
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kellytehuna wrote:
You confused me a little with the word "compromise". I believe the word you're looking for is "comprise".

I believe he meant you have to compromise on the angles.
Meaning since the bowler needs Small angles for his speed, Large angles for his tilt, you have to compromise and meet in the middle. My guess is Speed takes precedence over tilt, as I would assume it's more dominant on ball reaction, and takes more to overcome or compensate for. But if you can get all the bowlers stats for Mo, including Tilt, Rotation, speed revs and the Ball in question, He'll be able to give you a solid starting point for a layout. Good Luck


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 Post subject: Re: compromising dual angle sums
 Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:13 pm Post Number: #7 Post
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wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index.php/Technical_Sheets

while waiting for Mo and Paul this site gives some good info for helping you grasp all the info.when reading some of the post I got confused so by referencing these charts it did help(and I still have to reference different charts and forum entrys to this day,should of stayed in school....)

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 Post subject: Re: compromising dual angle sums
 Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:01 am Post Number: #8 Post
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thanks Redrivercoach I didn't realize Mo had upgraded all of his possible drills to dual angle. this will really help.


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 Post subject: Re: compromising dual angle sums
 Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:53 pm Post Number: #9 Post
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elgavachon wrote:
I am having problems with how to compromise sums of drilling angles. for example: speed dominant bowlers use small angle sums.
low tilt bowlers use large angle sums.
How would you compromise and determine what angles to use for someone who stands right and fires rockets to the pocket with no tilt.
for example:rev dominant bowlers use large angle sums.
high tilt bowlers use small angle sums.
Is there kind of a rule of thumb? or do you you just need experience kind of hit and miss till you get it right?
I apologize if I missed a forum that covered this. I have been searching but could not find one.


Please read the "Effective Use of Dual Angle Layouts" on the MoRich website. It outlines the criteria to get the bowler's proper layout.

Here's the outline of how I do it:
1) Determine the sum of the angles by analyzing the bowler's ball speed/rev rate ratio.
2) Determine the angle ratio by analyzing the bowler's axis rotation and axis tilt.
3) Adjust the angle ratio based on the design of the ball.
4) Adjust the numbers for the pattern the bowler wants to use the ball for.
5) Drill the ball and use the surface you choose.
6) Watch the bowler throw the ball and decide the balance hole size and location that will perfect the reaction.
7) Shake the bowler's hand and collect the money knowing you have done the job correctly.


That's as simple as I can make it. YOU WILL HAVE TO MAKE DECISIONS. IT'S PART OF THE JOB!


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 Post subject: Re: compromising dual angle sums
 Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:59 pm Post Number: #10 Post
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thanks a lot for this Mo. This is exactly the part of the dual angle that I didn't get.


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