Is this ball drilled upside down or wrong?

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Starion
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Is this ball drilled upside down or wrong?

Post by Starion »

I'm right-handed 2 finger, 1 hander. This is my first ball & PSO drilled it as a full roller based on 3 balls thrown with a non-fitted ball.

PSO strongly assured me that he stamped the hand logo correctly although the stamp is clearly upside down & opposite of my hand fit if you click on the pics below to zoom in. I don't like being bold-faced lied to over something as stupid as a stamp, unless he's hiding that he actually drilled actual ball wrong??

I've been told by a few others this was actually drilled upside down & could have me throwing against the core's design??
ball1.jpg
ball2.jpg
Grips:
normal grip 1.jpg
normal grip 2.jpg
normal grip 3.jpg
Specs:
Columbia 300 - Resurgence specs.jpg
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Last edited by Starion on July 13th, 2020, 6:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is this ball drilled upside down or wrong?

Post by boomer »

That pin looks. . . wrong. Under your palm?
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Re: Is this ball drilled upside down or wrong?

Post by MeNoRevs »

I think you might be confused on what your PSO did, if so, then he did nothing wrong. There are not enough pictures to show otherwise.

for 2 handed bowlers, especially ones that do not put their thumb in the ball, there are cases where the pin is "WAY" above the fingers, because now the fingers are the Center of Grip.

Can you show us a picture of the ball with the finger holes and the stamp?

I think this might be clearly that your holding the ball upside down.
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Re: Is this ball drilled upside down or wrong?

Post by Starion »

MeNoRevs wrote: July 13th, 2020, 4:53 pm I think you might be confused on what your PSO did, if so, then he did nothing wrong. There are not enough pictures to show otherwise.

for 2 handed bowlers, especially ones that do not put their thumb in the ball, there are cases where the pin is "WAY" above the fingers, because now the fingers are the Center of Grip.

Can you show us a picture of the ball with the finger holes and the stamp?

I think this might be clearly that your holding the ball upside down.
Can you not see the attached pictures in my first post? I've been having issues getting pictures to show up on the old PHPBB forum TBH.

I am not 2 handed. 1 handed.

Yes, the palm is just to the left of the pin, about an inch from it, and directly under my palm if I rotate ball clockwise for less hook (rarely do).

*Also - it's not possible for me to hold this ball upside down as my middle finger is bigger. Fingers won't fit if I flip it 180 degrees.
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Re: Is this ball drilled upside down or wrong?

Post by JimH »

One of the standard layouts for a full roller is to put the pin in the track. For a full roller the track is between the finger holes and thumb hole, which places the track under the palm. You do not have a thumb hole drilled but the track is still located under the palm. The engraving on the ball does not affect the performance of the ball.
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Re: Is this ball drilled upside down or wrong?

Post by Starion »

^ Thanks Jim! That's what I figured.

But now that I know I'm NOT a full roller, what if anything does this tell me about how the ball might be responding weaker or worse than ideal?

Might I actually be throwing against the intended core design with this setup?

I'm seeing oil track lines fanning across the ball w/ at least 5 different lines. Indicates axis is clearly not full roller. I'll try to get pics & vid if I can make it out again.
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Re: Is this ball drilled upside down or wrong?

Post by JimH »

The several track lines is an indication of the flare potential of the ball. Flare potential is a function of the core design. A ball with flare potential will still flare even for a full roller. The driller watched you roll a few shots in order to determine several things about the way you roll the ball. You never said if the driller suggested that ball or if the ball was your choice. I think you should talk to the driller about these issues. It seems to me the driller did a nice job.
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Re: Is this ball drilled upside down or wrong?

Post by Starion »

Thanks Jim. I didn't know that, but knew the track lines between the fingers and palm = full roller. The lines are now left of finger holes FWIW.
The ball was my choice after a lot of research. Very flexible ball, hybrid cover, good pin carry, etc. Perfect for a daily ball in various conditions from all I found. One home lane is typically dry, while the other is often more oiled. It does okay on both but I blame myself if it doesn't perform & for needing to adjust what I do. I'm learning to polish/pad it rough as needed with some success. Proper layout is where I'm looking now for an ideal foundation. See my other post about my throw variance & need to get assessed first. I appreciate confirmation on the drill at least.

Still curious if & how this current drill may affect me as a non-full roller.
Last edited by Starion on July 13th, 2020, 11:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is this ball drilled upside down or wrong?

Post by JimH »

Your game is changing. You said you did a lot of research before buying the ball. The job of a PSO is to keep up to date with the changing selection of equipment as well as the bowling centers in your area. You never mentioned if you are receiving coaching from a qualified coach, if you are not getting coaching I suggest you get some before bad/poor technique becomes part of your routine. Your local bowling association or bowling proprietor should be able to assist in finding a good qualified coach.
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Re: Is this ball drilled upside down or wrong?

Post by ICURNVS »

Correct me if I am wrong.. but.. even a 2 finger 1 hander.. There must be an X on the ball the same as a 2h is required to have. It designated where the palm is supposed to be so you dont have a "2 in 1" ball.
** UPDATED STATS AS OF 6-06-19 **
Right Hand
PAP 4 1/2-> 3/4 up
ROTATION 20 - 30
TILT 11.5*
MPH 14.5-15.2 MONITOR
RPM 350-375
RIP Visionary Bowling Products.....
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Re: Is this ball drilled upside down or wrong?

Post by Starion »

^ yes, that's what I'm saying. He STAMPED the little engraved pic of a hand UPSIDE DOWN vs. the fit of my fingers. Can see if you zoom in on the pics.

What you say is true IF a player has the same sized fingers & is able to throw upside down. It seems he drilled it correctly for a full roller, which is upside down compared to normal design & use. Yet he engraved that little figure wrong but didn't admit it. Again, I don't care about the engraving. Just curious at this point on the effect of throwing a ball drilled for full roller when I am now NOT a full roller.
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Re: Is this ball drilled upside down or wrong?

Post by boomer »

I didn't notice the stamp - if you're meaning the grip-hand-dealie off the side of your fingers, that's not where it's supposed to be, afaik. It's supposed to go where the hand would actually go. . . I believe. I mean - it's to mark where the hand is supposed to go.

There was a ball drilling with three holes all the same size and all in a triangle. Three finger-holes, so you could get three responses from the ball. Supposedly it worked - I use my thumb so I have to take their word for it! LOL
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Re: Is this ball drilled upside down or wrong?

Post by ICURNVS »

That hand stamp is SUPPOSED to be where the palm of your hand would be. Honestly if you use that ball, and bowl against someone who is a stickler for the rules.... That ball would be out. As there is no way your palm would be in that position.

Going to be interesting to see how many people get called out on improper balls this fall....
** UPDATED STATS AS OF 6-06-19 **
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PAP 4 1/2-> 3/4 up
ROTATION 20 - 30
TILT 11.5*
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RPM 350-375
RIP Visionary Bowling Products.....
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Re: Is this ball drilled upside down or wrong?

Post by Starion »

^ I agree! The stamp is wrong, although it's immediately clear that I cannot fit my fingers if it were flipped. The fact the PSO won't admit to stamping it incorrectly is a red flag to me and reason to seek another PSO to work with moving FW. I'm not a league bowler yet either FWIW, although I know several with far more experience who have told me I'm throwing against the design of the ball, which is concerning. Regardless I've been able to work with it as my one & only ball on house rec. conditions. Far better on fresh oil if I'm able to catch it on the right day off to the side of smaller league days. Still hit & miss overall...trying to avoid crowds w/ Covid n all.
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Re: Is this ball drilled upside down or wrong?

Post by TomaHawk »

That particular ball has a longer cg to pin than most commonly drilled bowling balls, that makes drill pattern look unusual. And, the fact that you are a no thumb bowler makes it look even more unusual.

There is definitely something the pro shop operator noticed when he or she watched you roll the ball. The ball is drilled according to what they saw. It is perfectly legal. If it seems to roll as you expected, try to forget about the way the drill pattern looks. That goes for what everyone else is saying about it too ;-)
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Re: Is this ball drilled upside down or wrong?

Post by greggas »

Are you guys talking about this?
ball11.jpg
That's the center of gravity stamp for Columbia balls. The PSO didn't do it. (It IS a bit far from the pin.)
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Re: Is this ball drilled upside down or wrong?

Post by Starion »

greggas wrote: July 30th, 2020, 7:20 am Are you guys talking about this?ball11.jpg
That's the center of gravity stamp for Columbia balls. The PSO didn't do it. (It IS a bit far from the pin.)
Thanks Tom & Greg. If true, then I'm totally wrong about the stamp. Sure looks like an idiot stamp to show which way to use the ball (and to prevent some 2 handers from using both ways as mentioned...IF their 2 fingers are same size or using removable inserts that is). I'm weird by not using grips I guess.

NOTE...I also have a new undrilled Columbia 300 "Baller" that does NOT have that hand engraving stamp on it. I'm 90% sure the Resurgence pictured did not have this either until my PSO drilled it. He even showed it to me, which prompted my questioning to him and on here of it being upside down.

-------------

To address the full roller, if I didn't earlier, the assessment was with an old unfitted ball I used for years with only a half fingertip "edge" of bigger finger hold grip. The track lines did go between the finger holes then. Since the Resurgence, my track lines are always off to the side of both holes, which indicates tilt/rotation right?
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Re: Is this ball drilled upside down or wrong?

Post by greggas »

Found some pictures of new, undrilled, balls on Ebay that have that stamp (including a Resurgence).If it was for marking hand position or orientation, why would it be on the ball before drilling? (I did find it odd that the little finger always seems to point towards the pin).
action 3.jpg
bedlam 3.jpg
rival 3.jpg
resurgence 2.jpg
Apparently, they don't use this stamp anymore. your "Baller" has the newer one.
baller.jpg
The large "c300" marks the center of gravity, the small one marks the PSA (Mass bias).
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Re: Is this ball drilled upside down or wrong?

Post by MegaMav »

The hand is the CG marker, not where the hand should go.
The ball should be engraved with an X to show the orientation of the ball, the CG punch is unlikely to be an accepted substitute.
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Re: Is this ball drilled upside down or wrong?

Post by greggas »

MegaMav wrote: July 31st, 2020, 10:15 pm The hand is the CG marker, not where the hand should go.
That's what I told him. I don't think he believed me.Image
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