Retaining axis tilt for low tilt bowler.

Which layout is right for me?

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
radialfil
Member
Member
Posts: 25
Joined: January 14th, 2019, 2:31 am
THS Average: 212
Positive Axis Point: 5.25 x 1.5^
Speed: 18.5 per specto
Rev Rate: 27
Axis Tilt: 7
Axis Rotation: 65

Retaining axis tilt for low tilt bowler.

Post by radialfil »

I was inquiring what is more critical in the layout of a low tilt(7*) bowler’s ball with 40-60 degree axis rotation. Does the pin to pap distance or the angle ratio have more effect on the performance of the drilled ball.
I am trying to see which balls in my arsenal will theoretically perform better so I can cull some of the outliers that I have.
I have read some of the wiki pages and assorted post but cannot definitively sort it out. I was hoping for some insight.
LH stroker
5 3/8 x 1 3/8 up
250-275 rpm
7* at. 40-60 ar
17 mph off hand
Phil Deering
Senior Lefty
PAP: 5.25-1.5^ Span 4.25”
RPM: +/-270 @ 18.5(off the hand)
Tilt: 5-7*
AR: +/- 65*
User avatar
EricHartwell
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 4080
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
Location: Michigan

Re: Retaining axis tilt for low tilt bowler.

Post by EricHartwell »

radialfil wrote:I was inquiring what is more critical in the layout of a low tilt(7*) bowler’s ball with 40-60 degree axis rotation. Does the pin to pap distance or the angle ratio have more effect on the performance of the drilled ball.
I am trying to see which balls in my arsenal will theoretically perform better so I can cull some of the outliers that I have.
I have read some of the wiki pages and assorted post but cannot definitively sort it out. I was hoping for some insight.
LH stroker
5 3/8 x 1 3/8 up
250-275 rpm
7* at. 40-60 ar
17 mph off hand
Benchmark 1.5:1 Ratio 90* totals
Asymmetrical Layouts
Totally Strong .......................... 45-4.5-25
Midlane .................................. 35-4-35
Benchmark ............................. 55-3.5-35
Long and Strong ...................... 75-3.25-35
Control ................................... 55-3-55
low flare ................................. 75-2-35

Symmetrical layouts (Drilling Angle represents the Angle to the Thumb hole)
Benchmark ............................. 80-4-30
Control .................................. 95-4.25-55 pin in the ring finger
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
radialfil
Member
Member
Posts: 25
Joined: January 14th, 2019, 2:31 am
THS Average: 212
Positive Axis Point: 5.25 x 1.5^
Speed: 18.5 per specto
Rev Rate: 27
Axis Tilt: 7
Axis Rotation: 65

Re: Retaining axis tilt for low tilt bowler.

Post by radialfil »

Wow!
Thanks
I presume the 14# weight is a non factor.
Phil Deering
Senior Lefty
PAP: 5.25-1.5^ Span 4.25”
RPM: +/-270 @ 18.5(off the hand)
Tilt: 5-7*
AR: +/- 65*
User avatar
EricHartwell
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 4080
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
Location: Michigan

Re: Retaining axis tilt for low tilt bowler.

Post by EricHartwell »

My arsenal lists are a guideline that defines a good usable range.
Specific ball needs to be considered when choosing a layout. For the most part, 14# equipment won't need much if any adjustments.

I forgot to comment
radialfil wrote: Does the pin to pap distance or the angle ratio have more effect on the performance of the drilled ball.
Pin to PAP and Ratio are used together to tune a layout to a specific release. I don't consider one without the other.
There are actually 3 parts to consider for layouts. Pin to PAP, Ratio and Totals.
The release defined with Tilt, Rotation, Speed and Revs are used to determine the layout.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
radialfil
Member
Member
Posts: 25
Joined: January 14th, 2019, 2:31 am
THS Average: 212
Positive Axis Point: 5.25 x 1.5^
Speed: 18.5 per specto
Rev Rate: 27
Axis Tilt: 7
Axis Rotation: 65

Re: Retaining axis tilt for low tilt bowler.

Post by radialfil »

It looks like most of my ball selection does not fit exactly like you describe, mostly the p2p distances. I have been pretty much shootin in the dark trying to hit the right combination. I think the balls that are close in ratio and sum with some p2p variation will help to begin to deal with this rubics cube of bowling balls. Mostly the balls I have are sym @ 4”or less or at 5”and asym @ 4-4.5”p2p. I have a plethora of balls to work with now I and will be using your data going forward with modification of some old the balls or even new ball layouts. I hope to be able to visually see the reaction variance from what I have in reference to the categories that you have set out.
Phil Deering
Senior Lefty
PAP: 5.25-1.5^ Span 4.25”
RPM: +/-270 @ 18.5(off the hand)
Tilt: 5-7*
AR: +/- 65*
radialfil
Member
Member
Posts: 25
Joined: January 14th, 2019, 2:31 am
THS Average: 212
Positive Axis Point: 5.25 x 1.5^
Speed: 18.5 per specto
Rev Rate: 27
Axis Tilt: 7
Axis Rotation: 65

Re: Retaining axis tilt for low tilt bowler.

Post by radialfil »

I was wondering if any change in recommendation to layouts as I have updated my release specs.
LH: 7* tilt @ +\-60ar; 275-300rpm; 18.5mph off hand measured by specto; 5.25x1.5^ pap

Thx
Phil Deering
Senior Lefty
PAP: 5.25-1.5^ Span 4.25”
RPM: +/-270 @ 18.5(off the hand)
Tilt: 5-7*
AR: +/- 65*
User avatar
EricHartwell
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 4080
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
Location: Michigan

Re: Retaining axis tilt for low tilt bowler.

Post by EricHartwell »

No changes are necessary.
Both your speed and revs went up keeping you in the same Sweetspot.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
radialfil
Member
Member
Posts: 25
Joined: January 14th, 2019, 2:31 am
THS Average: 212
Positive Axis Point: 5.25 x 1.5^
Speed: 18.5 per specto
Rev Rate: 27
Axis Tilt: 7
Axis Rotation: 65

Re: Retaining axis tilt for low tilt bowler.

Post by radialfil »

Thank you
Phil Deering
Senior Lefty
PAP: 5.25-1.5^ Span 4.25”
RPM: +/-270 @ 18.5(off the hand)
Tilt: 5-7*
AR: +/- 65*
radialfil
Member
Member
Posts: 25
Joined: January 14th, 2019, 2:31 am
THS Average: 212
Positive Axis Point: 5.25 x 1.5^
Speed: 18.5 per specto
Rev Rate: 27
Axis Tilt: 7
Axis Rotation: 65

Re: Retaining axis tilt for low tilt bowler.

Post by radialfil »

Is there a symmetrical equivalent to the list categories of layouts you have given me?

Additionally, does the list of layout range from earliest to later reaction? I.e., Earliest=totally strong; low flare=latest reax.

Is there a particular type of ball, solid, hybrid, pearl that work best for each category list.
Phil Deering
Senior Lefty
PAP: 5.25-1.5^ Span 4.25”
RPM: +/-270 @ 18.5(off the hand)
Tilt: 5-7*
AR: +/- 65*
User avatar
EricHartwell
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 4080
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
Location: Michigan

Re: Retaining axis tilt for low tilt bowler.

Post by EricHartwell »

EricHartwell wrote: November 13th, 2019, 12:35 am Benchmark 1.5:1 Ratio 90* totals
Asymmetrical Layouts
Totally Strong .......................... 45-4.5-25
Midlane .................................. 35-4-35
Benchmark ............................. 55-3.5-35
Long and Strong ...................... 75-3.25-35
Control ................................... 55-3-55
low flare ................................. 75-2-35

Symmetrical layouts (Drilling Angle represents the Angle to the Thumb hole)
Benchmark ............................. 80-4-30
Control .................................. 95-4.25-55 pin in the ring finger
I can add the low flare Symmetrical ...80-5-30

Yes the layout list is Strongest to weakest.

As far as recommending Specific ball type remember surface adjustments are key to matching up.
Pearls can be played dull and soilds can be shined.
You need to do some research when purchasing and try to match up to the marketing and reviews.
Don't get a skid snap type ball for a control layout or a low differential low flare ball and put a low flare layout on it.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
radialfil
Member
Member
Posts: 25
Joined: January 14th, 2019, 2:31 am
THS Average: 212
Positive Axis Point: 5.25 x 1.5^
Speed: 18.5 per specto
Rev Rate: 27
Axis Tilt: 7
Axis Rotation: 65

Re: Retaining axis tilt for low tilt bowler.

Post by radialfil »

A lot of companies are coming out with lower differential asym balls. Where in the progression list would these generally fit, benchmark below or only a few categories. Lets says obsession tour type numbers.
Phil Deering
Senior Lefty
PAP: 5.25-1.5^ Span 4.25”
RPM: +/-270 @ 18.5(off the hand)
Tilt: 5-7*
AR: +/- 65*
Post Reply