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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:35 pm Post Number: #561 Post
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MegaMav wrote:
Nord, the most important thing here is, you're trying different things to match up on the lane.
You're seeing what looks good, and what doesn't. That's a big thing.
You didn't just "stick to the game plan" trying to make something work, and I expect that to happen when your A game doesn't work, you try the B game.

Ok, will keep exploring the lane and try to see where the reaction is in practice.
I will try right of 5 and see what is there as well as left of it.
I could see the reaction the Jackpot liked, to get length and then a strong continuous backend move.


MegaMav wrote:
I think next time, scooch even further right during practice, outside of 5. Try 3 for a shot or two, see what happens.
You probably could have shot 279 or 290 that last game too.
Big things are happening, I hope you're excited for this change!

Yes, I am very excited!
Thank you again!

MegaMav wrote:
Remember, polished balls need maintenance too.
Keep refreshing the shine every 6 games or so, or whenever you can see the track dull up.

I will make sure to get the Jackpot re-polished each week.
It still looks good after last night.

MegaMav wrote:
When selecting new balls, remember, lighter reactive covers with tall, symmetrical cores.

What does this mean for my Gladiator?
Should I get it plugged and redrilled with the 1.5" pin layout I have on the Jackpot?
Or leave it with the 3 3/8"?
It is an Asymmetric ball too.
The Rack Attack however is symmetric with a light-bulb core and 1.5" layout, a step down from the Jackpot?
Should I get the Rack polished too?

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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:59 pm Post Number: #562 Post
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I would ditch the Gladiator or reserve it for situations where you're very tight to the pocket on long oil.

Consider the following balls if you plan to expand your reactive lineup:

Brunswick Twist (Ball Down, similar core to Rack Attack, weaker cover)



Radical Cyclops Pearl (Ball Up, different core)



Radical Grease Monkey Blue/Silver (Something similar to the Jackpot, even cleaner cover)



Personally I think you could do a lot with the Rack Attack and the Jackpot.
Just keep those in the back of your mind. Cyclops Pearl is on closeout.

4000 by hand on the Rack Attack please.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:31 pm Post Number: #563 Post
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MegaMav wrote:
I would ditch the Gladiator or reserve it for situations where you're very tight to the pocket on long oil.

Consider the following balls if you plan to expand your reactive lineup:

Brunswick Twist (Ball Down, similar core to Rack Attack, weaker cover)

Radical Cyclops Pearl (Ball Up, different core)

Radical Grease Monkey Blue/Silver (Something similar to the Jackpot, even cleaner cover)

Personally I think you could do a lot with the Rack Attack and the Jackpot.
Just keep those in the back of your mind. Cyclops Pearl is on closeout.

4000 by hand on the Rack Attack please.

Ok, Gladiator back in box for now.
I will work with the Rack and Jackpot.
Rack is still at a shiny 4000 from the pro shop, no polish.
I will consider the Cyclops Pearl since it is a ball up from the Jackpot.
This would give me a nice three ball arsenal:

Weak: Rack Attack
Medium/Benchmark: Jackpot
Strong: Cyclops Pearl

And I assume the same 45 degree down 1.5" pin on the Cyclops?
Also 4000/Polished on Cyclops?

When you say 4000 by hand on the Rack, do you mean wet or dry sand?

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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:01 pm Post Number: #564 Post
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Nord wrote:
And I assume the same 45 degree down 1.5" pin on the Cyclops?
Also 4000/Polished on Cyclops?

When you say 4000 by hand on the Rack, do you mean wet or dry sand?


Correct.
Damp pad by hand is best, it slows the resin from loading up on the pad.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:08 pm Post Number: #565 Post
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You know MegaMav, what really felt good at Kearny last night was discovering the capability of the Jackpot in the position round and out bowling four high rev, high ball speed players.

Their team consisted of two thumbless high rev high speed right handers, a high rev high speed thumbless left hander and a right handed two handed anchor.

These guys were getting a lot of strikes and their balls were whipping all over the lane.
But in the end they just didn't have the control to keep it up for all three games.
At the end of the day their high series was done by their two handed anchor, a 605.
But with the Jackpot I was able to just roll it very straight at around 11-12 mph at the pins and collect a 667 series.
That's what felt good, real good.
You know what I mean?

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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:40 am Post Number: #566 Post
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For me, success is defined by consistency.
Build on it and do it again, but only better.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:05 am Post Number: #567 Post
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Nord Parkway House Shot Report:

Brought the Jackpot, Rack and Purple.
Never took the Purple out of the bag.
In warm up the Jackpot was holding the line up 5 well, so there was enough head oil.
A miss right a board would push back, but two boards right would not.
A miss left a board would not hold and would cross over.
So I had two boards to play with and I took it for game 1.
Not good, I just was not hitting it perfectly and closed with a 154.

For game 2 and three I went back to A Game up second arrow because another bowler was also doing that for game 1 and I felt he had burned a nice line in it.
The oil and reaction however was much different from Kearny,
Kearny got great length and a very strong back end, but Parkway was a little lazy on the back so I had to make sure to not over throw the ball.
On one shot I had it up to 13 mph at the pins and it just rolled up too late.
So I had to force myself to stay slower.
I closed with a 205 and 212.
We won all four.

I see the potential for playing from the outside, but I need a lot of practice with this shot as it is not an easy shot!
But the Jackpot is gold, so dependable.
My partner watched me use it for the first time tonight and said he really liked its look for me.
So I will keep learning the Jackpot which is a very versatile ball and seems to be able to play in different parts of the lane.
I was having some release issues tonight because the cork ripped in my thumbhole and I had to put a new one in and it was causing me to stick.
I like it when the cork is more smooth and even though I took sandpaper to it, it was still not ready.
So I had some random shots.

I can hardly wait to see what the Jackpot will do at Surf bowl Thursday.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:59 am Post Number: #568 Post
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Nord wrote:
In warm up the Jackpot was holding the line up 5 well, so there was enough head oil.
A miss right a board would push back, but two boards right would not.
A miss left a board would not hold and would cross over.
So I had two boards to play with and I took it for game 1.


To me, on a house shot this narrow area of success scenario screams WRONG AREA OF THE LANE!
You're learning, its OK. You worked it out.
Keep moving around the lane, thats how you find the best scoring scenario.
The steeper angle to the pocket is motivation to find the outside most area to score, as long as its forgiving!

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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:45 am Post Number: #569 Post
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MegaMav wrote:

To me, on a house shot this narrow area of success scenario screams WRONG AREA OF THE LANE!
You're learning, its OK. You worked it out.
Keep moving around the lane, thats how you find the best scoring scenario.
The steeper angle to the pocket is motivation to find the outside most area to score, as long as its forgiving!

Ok, thanks for explaining that.
It did not feel right out there since it was a very hard shot to execute for success.
But I wanted to try and make that outside shot work at least one time.

I need to be a better explorer.
There are boards between second and first arrow to try.
The issue is, we only get 5 min of warm up in doubles league, so you gotta figure it out fast and get scoring or you are left behind!

In retrospect, a couple of times I made some big misses right, like 3 boards, and the Jackpot came back and hit for a light strike.
So, I probably could have played more right of second arrow and possibly had more margin for error.
But when you are in the midst of competition and you are winning, you really don't want to change anything.
But I am trying to learn!

In the last game it came down to the last shot in the 10th and my partner needed 9 to win for us.
He made a horrible shot and left the 4-7-9.
The anchor for the other team got up and left a pocket 7-10.
We won by one pin!

Bowling, you gotta love it. :lol:

MegaMav wrote:
The steeper angle to the pocket is motivation to find the outside most area to score, as long as its forgiving!

I will remember this and keep thinking about this as I explore the friction.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:34 pm Post Number: #570 Post
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Nord wrote:
I need to be a better explorer.
There are boards between second and first arrow to try.
The issue is, we only get 5 min of warm up in doubles league, so you gotta figure it out fast and get scoring or you are left behind!


Nord, you need to have a plan when you go into practice. Especially when you only get ~6 shots.

For example:
First shot - Straight up 5
Ball holds and goes in the pocket - 2 and 1 move left
Ball jumps across - 4 and 2 left
Ball doesn't make it back - parallel move left 2 and 2.

Repeat on the opposite lane.

You should be searching for probably a 3-4 board range where your ball will be in the pocket. This means that most likely playing straight up the boards will not be your normal line, just the starting point in practice.

Eric, you've been taking care of this for the most part. So if this isn't in your line of thinking for Nord feel free to correct me.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:04 pm Post Number: #571 Post
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Nord,

Congratulations on your success!

Finding a way to stay to the right will always be the most desirable area of play for your particular game. I also believe, with your roll pattern, there will be virtually no one in your area of play. The chances of oil depletion in a three game set will be minimal. It's hard to imagine, not having to move all day long.

People have become so enthralled with the "modern game", increasing speed, increasing rev, increasing angles that they have lost sight of what it really takes to knock down pins. You represent a wake up call. Bowling effectively, in spite of age or physical restrictions, is very much possible if the person stays within the framework of their own, particular, comfort level.

Again, congratulations!


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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:06 pm Post Number: #572 Post
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Kyle,

I hope the discussion continues with good advice from other members involved.
Thanks for your post above!

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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:01 pm Post Number: #573 Post
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trackbowler wrote:

Nord, you need to have a plan when you go into practice. Especially when you only get ~6 shots.

For example:
First shot - Straight up 5
Ball holds and goes in the pocket - 2 and 1 move left
Ball jumps across - 4 and 2 left
Ball doesn't make it back - parallel move left 2 and 2.

Repeat on the opposite lane.

You should be searching for probably a 3-4 board range where your ball will be in the pocket. This means that most likely playing straight up the boards will not be your normal line, just the starting point in practice.

Eric, you've been taking care of this for the most part. So if this isn't in your line of thinking for Nord feel free to correct me.

Ok, excuse my ignorance, what is a 2 and 1 move, or a 2 and 2 move.
Which number is the feet and which is the target?

My thinking after last night was next time in practice, find the board where the ball instantly wants to hook.
Then try right of it a board and see if the same thing happens.
If not then try left of it to see if it hooks hard, if it still does, try left of that, if it does not, then those two boards are the hook area.
Now set up so my ball starts left of those boards on the laydown and enters them about a 1/3 of the way up the lane so they will push the ball back to the pocket.
Is that kinda the idea?

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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:10 pm Post Number: #574 Post
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Nord wrote:
Ok, excuse my ignorance, what is a 2 and 1 move, or a 2 and 2 move.
Which number is the feet and which is the target?


Generally, it's feet and then target, with the bigger number being the number of boards to move with your feet. Small moves like 2:1 or 3:1 will keep roughly the same breakpoint down lane and just create more skid in the front. Parallel moves will obviously shift everything right or left.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:22 am Post Number: #575 Post
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trackbowler wrote:
When warming up in practice do this:

On your first shot go Straight up 5.

See if one of the three reactions below occurs, and if it does, adjust as indicated.

-If Ball holds and goes in the pocket then - 2 left with feet and 1 left with target

-If Ball jumps across then - 4 left with feet and 2 left with target

-If Ball doesn't make it back then - 2 left with feet and 2 left with target

Repeat on the opposite lane.

You should be searching for probably a 3-4 board range where your ball will be in the pocket. This means that most likely playing straight up the boards will not be your normal line, just the starting point in practice.


Ok, I rephrased the above to make it more clear to me.
Please let me know if this correct?

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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:55 pm Post Number: #576 Post
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Nord wrote:

Ok, I rephrased the above to make it more clear to me.
Please let me know if this correct?


Yes, that's correct and you may need to make slight adjustments to it as you progress. That's just an outline of what I think may work for you. The main thing is to have a plan to try to find where you can get 3-4 boards of miss room at your target and still be in the pocket.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:58 pm Post Number: #577 Post
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trackbowler wrote:
The main thing is to have a plan to try to find where you can get 3-4 boards of miss room at your target and still be in the pocket.

Wow, that much miss room?
I have never had that much miss room in my whole urethane bowling career. Lol.
If I could have that, it would be, "shooting fish in a barrel."

Ok, help me out here, let's say I try a shot up 5 and it holds to pocket.
Then I make the 2 and 1 move left and it still holds pocket the exact same way.
Now what?
What is the next experiment?

But say I move another 2 and 1 left and now the ball wont come back.
Now what?

Or say it jumps left instead?
Then what?

That's the stuff that confuses me.
Those fine points of finding "the area."

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Composite Average: 175
High Game: 259 bowled with Billy Hardwick rubber ball. The back 9.
High Series: 667 bowled with the Radical Jackpot.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:54 pm Post Number: #578 Post
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Nord wrote:
Wow, that much miss room?
I have never had that much miss room in my whole urethane bowling career. Lol.
If I could have that, it would be, "shooting fish in a barrel."

Ok, help me out here, let's say I try a shot up 5 and it holds to pocket.
Then I make the 2 and 1 move left and it still holds pocket the exact same way.
Now what?
What is the next experiment?
Make another move left, this will take some learning but the second move could be 2 and 1 or just a single board left with your feet.

But say I move another 2 and 1 left and now the ball wont come back.
Now what?
That means you found where your miss room ends, so move back to the right and you more than likely have your 3 boards now.

Or say it jumps left instead?
Then what?
If it jumps left after you move 2 and 1 left but didn't jump when you were up 5 that would mean there is dry to the left of 5. My conclusion then would be to not play 5 because if you pulled the ball it would cross over, and I would continue moving left to find the oil line.

That's the stuff that confuses me.
Those fine points of finding "the area."
You won't be able to figure all these fine points in one go, this will be you taking information across multiple trips bowling. If you tried doing these moves one board at a time, practice would be over and you won't have got much of a picture of the lanes.

You have to remember that you will probably not get more than 8 total shots for all of practice so you need to make the most and test a larger area of the lane with the 4 shots you would get on each lane.



My comments are in yellow.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:49 pm Post Number: #579 Post
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Thank you very much!

I bowl at Surf tonight.
Surf is unique in that they give us 15 min of warm up!
So I may have time to do more precise experiments.
Is there a more specific test sequence you would like me to try since I have much more time?

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High Game: 259 bowled with Billy Hardwick rubber ball. The back 9.
High Series: 667 bowled with the Radical Jackpot.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:20 pm Post Number: #580 Post
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Nord wrote:
Thank you very much!

I bowl at Surf tonight.
Surf is unique in that they give us 15 min of warm up!
So I may have time to do more precise experiments.
Is there a more specific test sequence you would like me to try since I have much more time?


The more specifics would occur after your initial shot sequence. Once you've found the pocket and made the 2 and 1 move your next adjustment can be single board moves if the 2 and 1 move holds the pocket.

I.E. Ball # and feet/target
Ball 1 5/5: Up 5 is in the pocket
Ball 2 7/6: 2 and 1 left is in the pocket
Ball 3 8/6: 1 board with feet left to see if you have room further out at the break point (just for reference, if this is also in the pocket you've now identified a 3 and 2 zone where the ball will be in the pocket)
ball 4 5/4: this one is to test if you miss right (now you'd be at your 3 boards of miss room, maybe more)

This covers 8 shots, 4 on each pair. You also have to take account the possibility of needing to touch the surface up or if you make a shot that you weren't happy with off your hand.

The number of variations of moves that could spawn while your warming up is so numerous that I would prefer you keep it fairly simple for now until you start to get a better feel for playing with reactive.

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