Looking to drill a low flare ball for a girl I coach. She is very Rev dominant with a speed of around 14 off her hand, high axis tilt, slightly high axis rotation. With this combination, pretty much everything I've drilled for her is Control, often with a P1 hole. She gets the ball down the lane pretty well, but once it starts moving, it really moves. I'm thinking about going Low Flare with something with a lower differential like a Tropical Breeze. Mo's Low Flare suggestion would be 90x2.5x45. I'm wondering two things: firstly, would it be better to go with a 5.5 pin to PAP distance to delay the hook further, and would the 45 VAL angle still be too low considering how she throws the ball?
I am open to any suggestion, layout, ball, surface, anything. Thanks in advance.
Low Flare Layout Advice
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- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: Low Flare Layout Advice
What kind of ball motion are you look to get for her.
While your description of her bowling style paints a picture specific release specs are needed to give you an accurate layout for her.
Check out this link for the needed information...
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=373" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
While your description of her bowling style paints a picture specific release specs are needed to give you an accurate layout for her.
Check out this link for the needed information...
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=373" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Re: Low Flare Layout Advice
Right, sorry about that:EricHartwell wrote:What kind of ball motion are you look to get for her.
While your description of her bowling style paints a picture specific release specs are needed to give you an accurate layout for her.
Check out this link for the needed information...
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=373" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Speed: 14 off her hand
Rev Rate: 380-400
Initial Axis Rotation: 65
Initial Axis Tilt: 8.3 (12.25 inches)
I'm looking for a very arcy motion. Not snappy at all.
- snick
- BCU Graduate Layouts
- Posts: 759
- Joined: August 31st, 2014, 8:00 pm
- THS Average: 196
- Sport Average: 180
- Positive Axis Point: 5.5625" x .625 up
- Speed: 17 off hand
- Rev Rate: 360
- Axis Tilt: 17
- Axis Rotation: 55
- Heavy Oil Ball: Storm Physix
- Medium Oil Ball: Storm Streetfight
- Light Oil Ball: Rotogrip Hustle Pearl
- Preferred Company: Rotogrip
- Location: Tucson, AZ
Re: Low Flare Layout Advice
Tropical will provide "artificial" length and over/under on fresh, regardless of the layout. Recommend 500/2000 surface and a strong, flare-safe pin position for this ball design. ie: 75x3.75x25
Benchmark Bowling Pro Shop
Byron
RH
PAP: 5.5625 x .625 up
REVRATE: 360
SPEED: 17mph at release
AR: 55º
AT: 17º
Byron
RH
PAP: 5.5625 x .625 up
REVRATE: 360
SPEED: 17mph at release
AR: 55º
AT: 17º
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: Low Flare Layout Advice
Definitely Rev Dominant.lpc300 wrote:
Right, sorry about that:
Speed: 14 off her hand
Rev Rate: 380-400
Initial Axis Rotation: 65
Initial Axis Tilt: 8.3 (12.25 inches)
I'm looking for a very arcy motion. Not snappy at all.
I would like to recommend a layout with a balance hole, But....
With that said I would not recommend such a weak cored ball.
Asymmetrical ball 65-3-65
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Re: Low Flare Layout Advice
Thanks for responding, Eric. A few questions:EricHartwell wrote: Definitely Rev Dominant.
I would like to recommend a layout with a balance hole, But....
With that said I would not recommend such a weak cored ball.
Asymmetrical ball 65-3-65
1) I'm curious... Ive always thought that because of her Rev Dominance, a weaker core would help soften her backend reaction. Is tha "theory" of mine incorrect?
2) I have an old DV8 Rukus Feud. Would that core be too strong?
3) If I go with the Rukus, how would you suggest I tweek the surface? I'm thinking OOB might be too strong.
4) Wouldn't a 3" pin-PAP distance still create too much flare?
I appreciate any suggestions.
-
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 3174
- Joined: January 18th, 2010, 9:21 pm
Re: Low Flare Layout Advice
On a strong asymmetrical ball, I would consider Mo's short pin layout. here is the video:
As far as the finish, do not use skip a grit. Go through all the grits you can and finish with a worn out 4000 at least. skip a grit can be snappy. Going through all grits is more controllable.
[youtube][/youtube]
As far as the finish, do not use skip a grit. Go through all the grits you can and finish with a worn out 4000 at least. skip a grit can be snappy. Going through all grits is more controllable.
[youtube][/youtube]
Re: Low Flare Layout Advice
Thank you. Yeah, I never use skip a grit for her... makes the ball far too snappy. I'm thinking that the short pin layout is the way to go. I've used it on symmetricals with her with varying success.elgavachon wrote:On a strong asymmetrical ball, I would consider Mo's short pin layout. here is the video:
As far as the finish, do not use skip a grit. Go through all the grits you can and finish with a worn out 4000 at least. skip a grit can be snappy. Going through all grits is more controllable.
[youtube][/youtube]
Do you think some Black Magic polish would be a good idea, to calm down the reaction even more?
- deanchamp
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 455
- Joined: August 4th, 2010, 10:23 am
- THS Average: 220
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
Re: Low Flare Layout Advice
Hi, have you got any video of her bowling? I'm curious as to how she gets 400rpm at 14mph off her hand.lpc300 wrote:
Right, sorry about that:
Speed: 14 off her hand
Rev Rate: 380-400
Initial Axis Rotation: 65
Initial Axis Tilt: 8.3 (12.25 inches)
I'm looking for a very arcy motion. Not snappy at all.
USBC Silver Level Coach
BCU Graduate - Mastery of Layouts
BTM contributor
BCU Graduate - Mastery of Layouts
BTM contributor