Mo Pinel Discusses Axis Tilt

You can post any bowling related topics here.

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
bowl1820
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 1470
Joined: July 9th, 2012, 10:09 pm
Location: Central Florida

Mo Pinel Discusses Axis Tilt

Post by bowl1820 »

Mo Pinel Discusses Axis Tilt

Mo Pinel talks about AXIS TILT and the effect it has on ball reaction and why YOU should consider it when selecting your next layout.

[youtube][/youtube]
"REMEMBER, it isn't how much the ball hooks, it's where."
User avatar
MegaMav
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4694
Joined: April 27th, 2007, 5:00 am
THS Average: 225
Sport Average: 200
Positive Axis Point: 5.5 Over & 1 Up
Speed: 16.0 MPH - Camera
Rev Rate: 375
Axis Tilt: 14
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical - Informer
Medium Oil Ball: Brunswick - Fearless
Light Oil Ball: Radical - Bonus Pearl
Preferred Company: Radical Bowling Technologies
Location: Malta, NY

Re: Mo Pinel Discusses Axis Tilt

Post by MegaMav »

I asked for some clarification of this on facebook, and this is the answer I got:
Screenshot from 2018-06-17 10-57-32.png
The only thing I can think of is, this is in preparation of having a lineup dominated by Asymmetrics.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
gunso
Member
Member
Posts: 291
Joined: April 4th, 2015, 11:47 pm
Location: Iceland

Re: Mo Pinel Discusses Axis Tilt

Post by gunso »

He really knows how to answer the question without answering why all of a sudden it is different from his earlier teachings. Both in regards to pin to pap lengths for symmetricals and why all of a sudden he recommends the same pin to pap distances.

Having the same pin to pap distance made much more sense to me though after reading the after drilling numbers. For example a pin up yeti uncaged ended up with a 0.18 int diff. I couldn't for the life of me understand why that ball should act different pin to pap wise then an 0.13 diff ball with a pin down drilling. The after drilling int diff was probably more on the yeti core.
User avatar
MegaMav
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4694
Joined: April 27th, 2007, 5:00 am
THS Average: 225
Sport Average: 200
Positive Axis Point: 5.5 Over & 1 Up
Speed: 16.0 MPH - Camera
Rev Rate: 375
Axis Tilt: 14
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical - Informer
Medium Oil Ball: Brunswick - Fearless
Light Oil Ball: Radical - Bonus Pearl
Preferred Company: Radical Bowling Technologies
Location: Malta, NY

Re: Mo Pinel Discusses Axis Tilt

Post by MegaMav »

Drill a symmetric like a Cyclops 70 x 3 x 50 and drill a stronger asymmetric like a More Cash ?? x 3 x 50 and tell me they shape the same.
They do not.
gunso
Member
Member
Posts: 291
Joined: April 4th, 2015, 11:47 pm
Location: Iceland

Re: Mo Pinel Discusses Axis Tilt

Post by gunso »

MegaMav wrote:Drill a symmetric like a Cyclops 70 x 3 x 50 and drill a stronger asymmetric like a More Cash ?? x 3 x 50 and tell me they shape the same.
They do not.
don't matter how you drill them, they'll never shape the same and why would you want them to shape the same?
Dax
Member
Member
Posts: 263
Joined: March 8th, 2011, 7:38 pm
THS Average: 230

Re: Mo Pinel Discusses Axis Tilt

Post by Dax »

Interesting.

Would be curious to know what he would recommend for a two hander with slow speed.

or what would give the bigger tilt to gain maximum length?
"You see only what you look for; you recognize only what you know"

There are many worlds out there. Some of them can be accessed through reading. Encourage reading - T.A. Sankar

http://www.tasankar.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
User avatar
snick
BCU Graduate Layouts
BCU Graduate Layouts
Posts: 759
Joined: August 31st, 2014, 8:00 pm
THS Average: 196
Sport Average: 180
Positive Axis Point: 5.5625" x .625 up
Speed: 17 off hand
Rev Rate: 360
Axis Tilt: 17
Axis Rotation: 55
Heavy Oil Ball: Storm Physix
Medium Oil Ball: Storm Streetfight
Light Oil Ball: Rotogrip Hustle Pearl
Preferred Company: Rotogrip
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: Mo Pinel Discusses Axis Tilt

Post by snick »

ball dynamics and layouts are correlated with PAP coordinates and bowler release metrics.
Static weight effects have been tested relative to the center of grip.
What's wrong with this picture?
Benchmark Bowling Pro Shop
Byron

RH
PAP: 5.5625 x .625 up
REVRATE: 360
SPEED: 17mph at release
AR: 55º
AT: 17º
Arkansas
BCU Graduate Layouts
BCU Graduate Layouts
Posts: 477
Joined: January 24th, 2012, 11:02 pm
Positive Axis Point: 4 1/2 Left x 3/4 Up
Speed: 18.5 off Hand
Rev Rate: 350
Axis Tilt: 17
Axis Rotation: 55
Heavy Oil Ball: Guru Mighty
Medium Oil Ball: Guru
Light Oil Ball: Torrid Affair
Preferred Company: Radical

Re: Mo Pinel Discusses Axis Tilt

Post by Arkansas »

snick wrote:ball dynamics and layouts are correlated with PAP coordinates and bowler release metrics.
Static weight effects have been tested relative to the center of grip.
What's wrong with this picture?
Exactly.
James Talley
TonyPR
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 1386
Joined: December 14th, 2014, 3:08 am
Preferred Company: Radical
Location: San Juan, PR

Re: Mo Pinel Discusses Axis Tilt

Post by TonyPR »

I think Mo is designing new cores and will probably come up with new pin to pap rules. Funny thing is I learned from him (here and in the Ball Drilling for Dummies series) that pin to paps behave differently from symmetrical to asymmetrical cored balls. According to him he will now recommend six different layouts plus the double thumb (which would be illegal in 2020). He also stated that full rollers will now be really limited because they will only have two layouts. I am keeping a close eye on this as it develops.
Silver Level Coach
Kegel KCMP1 and KCMP2 Completed /Approved Exam
Kegel KCMP3 Completed
Kegel Certified Pro Shop Operator
Free agent
56bird
Member
Member
Posts: 488
Joined: April 18th, 2013, 11:55 am

Re: Mo Pinel Discusses Axis Tilt

Post by 56bird »

Just another anecdote (can't even dignify it as a "data point" lol) As a mad spinnerooni I've been having my best successes with longer pin-to-pap layouts with both sym and asym pieces these days. By no means would I say they shape the same at all but they both work.

Favorite go-to pieces right now are a Code Red (very asymmetric) with pin-over-middle and a All Out Show Off (symmetric) with pin over bridge. PAP when last checked was 3 1/2" over.

Also have a Hustle with pin over middle, it doesn't get much use although that could just be the weak cover/core combo- I rarely see super dry lanes these days. Still I'd hesitate to get another symmetric drilled that long while I would NOT hesitate with an asym.
Post Reply