Article by Rob Bailey
Moderator: Moderators
-
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 3174
- Joined: January 18th, 2010, 9:21 pm
Article by Rob Bailey
Here is a letter by Rob Bailey which was posted by Jeff Richgels in 11thFrame. It expresses my opinion on this very well. I especially liked the part where he says that hard shots should be the norm and if you bowl on an easy shot and then try tournaments with an inflated average, you should be at a disadvantage.
https://www.11thframe.com/news/article/ ... t-proposed" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.11thframe.com/news/article/ ... t-proposed" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- scotts33
- Member
- Posts: 802
- Joined: August 13th, 2009, 12:30 pm
- Positive Axis Point: 4 7/8" > 3/8" up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 325
- Axis Tilt: 17
- Axis Rotation: 60
- Heavy Oil Ball: Motiv T10 LE 60* 4" 60* no hole symm. OOB pin down
- Location: Madison, WI
Re: Article by Rob Bailey
Rob is my driller and has been of his opinions for years which I tend to agree with. Jeff Richgels set this story so non-subscribers to 11th Frame can read this.
Re: Article by Rob Bailey
Thanks for the link. Very good points that I hope don't fall on deaf ears.
* MPH @ aarows
* RPM
AR *
AT *
PAP 3 3/4"
(* rebuilding)
“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
― Neil deGrasse Tyson
* RPM
AR *
AT *
PAP 3 3/4"
(* rebuilding)
“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
― Neil deGrasse Tyson
-
- Member
- Posts: 320
- Joined: October 21st, 2011, 2:50 pm
Re: Article by Rob Bailey
Bailey hit the nail on the head pretty well. I agree with many of the points he made.
-
- Member
- Posts: 181
- Joined: March 7th, 2015, 12:44 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4 11/16 over 1 up
- Speed: 13 off hand
- Rev Rate: 200
- Axis Tilt: 24
- Axis Rotation: 75
- Heavy Oil Ball: Track Logix
- Medium Oil Ball: Track Paradox
- Light Oil Ball: Hammer Widow Black Urethane
- Preferred Company: Ebonite Brands
Re: Article by Rob Bailey
What I'm about to say is my opinions and in no way is meant to demean anybody on this forum. I agree with many of the things that Rob Bailey stated but with this caveat. In my opinion the changes the USBC is thinking about implementing and how they do it could have a negative impact on Pro Shop Operators and hurt their bottom line. I wouldn't implement any of their changes but I would welcome a complete study of the Modern Sport of Bowling and then come up with recommendation that would encourage the growth of the sport and the skills necessary to become a pro. I am not a chemist or materials engineer, so what I'm about to say maybe impossible to accomplish. I realize that bowling proprietors are in the business to make a profit and anything that accomplish it is good for business. Since the bowling population in leagues has been declining for many years in both scratch and handicap toughening the easy house shots that are the norm today will only cause a financial impact to the owners and increase the rate of decline. As an aside recreational bowling which I define as non league bowlers who may or may not have equipment and bowl sporadically for fun seem not to be in decline. I personally think that there should be specifications that truly standardize equipment so the sport is a level playing field. Cores should be standard in all balls. If you where to keep balls the way they are today then in order to make it harder I would increase the amount of oil put on the lane and use no patterns but a flat 1 to 1 ratio. The problem with that is oil has a detrimental effect on the operations of the pinsetters and the ball returns, causing consternation for mechanics and owners alike. As far as cover-stocks under today's conditions I like urethane, plastic, and resins with much less oil absorption. The changing from wood to synthetics, solved the problem of the cost of resurfacing the lanes every so often but introduced the problem of topography which make each lane somewhat different overtime. I would like the USBC to research with companies like Dupont a new surface which would only need cleaning but not oil. Is this possible, I'm not able to answer this but it would lower the cost of maintenance. If this was doable I'm sure the ball manufacturers would come up with a surface that would work. New lanes and standardized balls would bring integrity back to the sport and in my mind recreation bowlers as I defined them above wouldn't be effected. Now this 77 year young bowler will get back to reality and keep enjoying his Sunday participation in his local ABT branch tournaments that puts out mostly sport shots.
Joel Resnick
Hand: Left
PAP: 4 11/16 over 1 up
Speed: 13 off hand
Rev Rate: 200
Axis Tilt: 24
Axis Rotation: 75
No matter what you are trying to do remember simplicity gives better results than over complicating things.
Hand: Left
PAP: 4 11/16 over 1 up
Speed: 13 off hand
Rev Rate: 200
Axis Tilt: 24
Axis Rotation: 75
No matter what you are trying to do remember simplicity gives better results than over complicating things.
Re: Article by Rob Bailey
Oil less lane surfaces have been attempted several times over the years (Example Look up Bill Taylor), but it's never gone anywhere. Nobody has ever really liked one.jdrsuper wrote:I would like the USBC to research with companies like Dupont a new surface which would only need cleaning but not oil. Is this possible, I'm not able to answer this but it would lower the cost of maintenance.
Oil is technically there to protect the lane surface, without it the lane is subject to a lot more wear and change to topography.
"REMEMBER, it isn't how much the ball hooks, it's where."
-
- Member
- Posts: 181
- Joined: March 7th, 2015, 12:44 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4 11/16 over 1 up
- Speed: 13 off hand
- Rev Rate: 200
- Axis Tilt: 24
- Axis Rotation: 75
- Heavy Oil Ball: Track Logix
- Medium Oil Ball: Track Paradox
- Light Oil Ball: Hammer Widow Black Urethane
- Preferred Company: Ebonite Brands
Re: Article by Rob Bailey
bowl1820bowl1820 wrote: Oil less lane surfaces have been attempted several times over the years (Example Look up Bill Taylor), but it's never gone anywhere. Nobody has ever really liked one.
Oil is technically there to protect the lane surface, without it the lane is subject to a lot more wear and change to topography.
I am aware of some previous attempts but I didn't make that clear, my bad. What I was hoping for was a material that wouldn't need oil, just cleaning. The surface would be durable enough not to cause topography changes and was perfectly flat as long it was installed correctly. Like I said it will probably never happen because the powers that be would never let it happen even if the material could be manufactured.
Joel Resnick
Hand: Left
PAP: 4 11/16 over 1 up
Speed: 13 off hand
Rev Rate: 200
Axis Tilt: 24
Axis Rotation: 75
No matter what you are trying to do remember simplicity gives better results than over complicating things.
Hand: Left
PAP: 4 11/16 over 1 up
Speed: 13 off hand
Rev Rate: 200
Axis Tilt: 24
Axis Rotation: 75
No matter what you are trying to do remember simplicity gives better results than over complicating things.
Re: Article by Rob Bailey
So a lane surface that never changes night to night or shot to shot? With a standardized ball?jdrsuper wrote:
bowl1820
I am aware of some previous attempts but I didn't make that clear, my bad. What I was hoping for was a material that wouldn't need oil, just cleaning. The surface would be durable enough not to cause topography changes and was perfectly flat as long it was installed correctly. Like I said it will probably never happen because the powers that be would never let it happen even if the material could be manufactured.
We’d have the most boring sport of all time. We’d have no external or environmental factors of any kind to consider, just the same shot over and over with some spares thrown in the mix.
Woof.
PAP- 4 1/8 over, 3/4 up
Speed - 17-18 monitor
Rev Rate - 475
Rotation - 65
Tilt - 12
Speed - 17-18 monitor
Rev Rate - 475
Rotation - 65
Tilt - 12
- stevespo
- Member
- Posts: 584
- Joined: August 11th, 2014, 8:07 pm
- THS Average: 225
- Positive Axis Point: 5.75" x + 3/8"
- Speed: 17+ off hand (camera)
- Rev Rate: 375
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Phaze II, Altered Reality
- Medium Oil Ball: IQ Tour Nano, Zen, Phase III
- Light Oil Ball: Electrify Pearl
Re: Article by Rob Bailey
Yes, a "perfect" condition sounds pretty boring to me too... but I wouldn't mind seeing USBC tighten up the topography variation from +/- 0.040" at 3 locations, to perhaps +/- 0.020" at 5 locations.
I realize this is completely unrealistic, but having spent a few days at Kegel in January and bowling on 4 different lane topographies, I have a newfound appreciation for how differently a pair can play even when they satisfy the current spec. A 38' sport pattern can feel like a 48' pattern by adding a small (legal) hump near the breakpoint. It has to be experienced to be believed.
A material that is dimensionally stable, perfectly flat (+/- over what range)...
How about a gigantic granite slab, like a 41" x 63' long surface plate?
Steve
I realize this is completely unrealistic, but having spent a few days at Kegel in January and bowling on 4 different lane topographies, I have a newfound appreciation for how differently a pair can play even when they satisfy the current spec. A 38' sport pattern can feel like a 48' pattern by adding a small (legal) hump near the breakpoint. It has to be experienced to be believed.
A material that is dimensionally stable, perfectly flat (+/- over what range)...
How about a gigantic granite slab, like a 41" x 63' long surface plate?
Steve
16 mph (14-14.5 on monitor), 375 rpm, PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8 up, AT: 12*, AR: 45*
Re: Article by Rob Bailey
There is one! and according to the info a few alley used themstevespo wrote: How about a gigantic granite slab, like a 41" x 63' long surface plate?
This is an outdoor granite bowling lane on the property of the Rock of Ages Granite Quarry in Barre Vermont.
[youtube][/youtube]
"REMEMBER, it isn't how much the ball hooks, it's where."
- imagonman
- Member
- Posts: 126
- Joined: January 21st, 2017, 5:18 pm
- Preferred Company: Brunswick
- Location: Cleveland Ohio
Re: Article by Rob Bailey
Flintstones..........meet the Flintstones................
- stevespo
- Member
- Posts: 584
- Joined: August 11th, 2014, 8:07 pm
- THS Average: 225
- Positive Axis Point: 5.75" x + 3/8"
- Speed: 17+ off hand (camera)
- Rev Rate: 375
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Phaze II, Altered Reality
- Medium Oil Ball: IQ Tour Nano, Zen, Phase III
- Light Oil Ball: Electrify Pearl
Re: Article by Rob Bailey
Road trip to Barre! Never thought anyone would have actually done the granite lanes...
Steve
Steve
16 mph (14-14.5 on monitor), 375 rpm, PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8 up, AT: 12*, AR: 45*
- sportcoupe
- Member
- Posts: 23
- Joined: March 2nd, 2015, 7:10 pm
- Preferred Company: Storm
Re: Article by Rob Bailey
Ya know... synthetic lane panels placed on a granite slab doesn't sound like a bad idea....stevespo wrote:
A material that is dimensionally stable, perfectly flat (+/- over what range)...
How about a gigantic granite slab, like a 41" x 63' long surface plate?
Steve
[youtube][/youtube]
[youtube][/youtube]