Studying drill angles and hoping to get some help in understanding...
I’m trying to figure out how to determine different degrees determine different length of skid. So to help me understand this a little more with all else being equal-
Same Ball
Same bowler metrics
Same Pin to PAP
Same VAL
What would be the difference seen in ball motion for a ball with a Drill Angle of:
40* -
45* -
50* -
55* -
60* -
And how does the Pin to PAP and VAL change this?
I’ve been studying for a while now and after trying to learn it all at once I’ve decide to try and tack each of the 3 once section at a time.
Thanks!
Drill angle and ball motion
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Drill angle and ball motion
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Rev 275
Tilt 17*
Rot 75*
PAP 4 over 1 3/8 up
Cash, More Cash, Katana x2, Fix, Quick Fix, Intel, Beyond Ridiculous, Tremendous Pearl, Guru Limited, Cyclops Pearl, True Motion & Radical Spare (Waiting to ship - Katana Slash)
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Re: Drill angle and ball motion
This is where I learned it:
http://above180.com/category/ball-drill ... es-series/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Start with part 1 at the bottom of the page
In general, the closest the PSA is from the RG of your PAP the shorter the distance the axis has to migrate to cross the pin to PSA line the earlier the reaction will be so, the smaller the drilling angle the faster the first transition (from skid to hook) will be.
http://above180.com/category/ball-drill ... es-series/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Start with part 1 at the bottom of the page
In general, the closest the PSA is from the RG of your PAP the shorter the distance the axis has to migrate to cross the pin to PSA line the earlier the reaction will be so, the smaller the drilling angle the faster the first transition (from skid to hook) will be.
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Re: Drill angle and ball motion
Thank you!TonyPR wrote:This is where I learned it:
http://above180.com/category/ball-drill ... es-series/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Start with part 1 at the bottom of the page
In general, the closest the PSA is from the RG of your PAP the shorter the distance the axis has to migrate to cross the pin to PSA line the earlier the reaction will be so, the smaller the drilling angle the faster the first transition (from skid to hook) will be.
Realizing I’ve been looking at it completely wrong.
Speed 17.5 off-hand
Rev 275
Tilt 17*
Rot 75*
PAP 4 over 1 3/8 up
Cash, More Cash, Katana x2, Fix, Quick Fix, Intel, Beyond Ridiculous, Tremendous Pearl, Guru Limited, Cyclops Pearl, True Motion & Radical Spare (Waiting to ship - Katana Slash)
Rev 275
Tilt 17*
Rot 75*
PAP 4 over 1 3/8 up
Cash, More Cash, Katana x2, Fix, Quick Fix, Intel, Beyond Ridiculous, Tremendous Pearl, Guru Limited, Cyclops Pearl, True Motion & Radical Spare (Waiting to ship - Katana Slash)
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Re: Drill angle and ball motion
Keep in mind that the drill angle is meaningful only for asymmetric balls. With a symmetric ball the psa after drilling will always be located near the thumb hole (best estimate without using a Determinator is 1/2" left of the thumb hole* and 6 3/4" from the pin) unless a balance hole is used. -- JohnP
*for a right handed bowler
*for a right handed bowler
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Re: Drill angle and ball motion
You might want to have a look at this.
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... lained.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... lained.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
James Talley
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Re: Drill angle and ball motion
My first thought was -
Can anybody with Blueprint simulate this and quantify the differences?
Can you run the numbers on a strong asym vs. a weak asym? Does that matter?
My second thought was -
We're confident the smaller drill angles will transition sooner, so does the amount really matter? Surface prep is going to have a greater effect than a 5, 10 or 20 degree change in drill angle...
Last thought -
It would be interesting to compare the results from the Blueprint drill angle simulations with those from a consistent drill angle using only surface prep to get the transition points reasonably close.
How does the rest of the shape compare when you're using layout vs. surface?
Steve
Can anybody with Blueprint simulate this and quantify the differences?
Can you run the numbers on a strong asym vs. a weak asym? Does that matter?
My second thought was -
We're confident the smaller drill angles will transition sooner, so does the amount really matter? Surface prep is going to have a greater effect than a 5, 10 or 20 degree change in drill angle...
Last thought -
It would be interesting to compare the results from the Blueprint drill angle simulations with those from a consistent drill angle using only surface prep to get the transition points reasonably close.
How does the rest of the shape compare when you're using layout vs. surface?
Steve
16 mph (14-14.5 on monitor), 375 rpm, PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8 up, AT: 12*, AR: 45*
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- Posts: 477
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- Positive Axis Point: 4 1/2 Left x 3/4 Up
- Speed: 18.5 off Hand
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- Medium Oil Ball: Guru
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Re: Drill angle and ball motion
https://www.bowlingthismonth.com/bowlin ... ll-motion/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
James Talley
- stevespo
- Member
- Posts: 584
- Joined: August 11th, 2014, 8:07 pm
- THS Average: 225
- Positive Axis Point: 5.75" x + 3/8"
- Speed: 17+ off hand (camera)
- Rev Rate: 375
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Phaze II, Altered Reality
- Medium Oil Ball: IQ Tour Nano, Zen, Phase III
- Light Oil Ball: Electrify Pearl
Re: Drill angle and ball motion
Yes, good article. By changing the Pin to PAP from 3, 4, to 5" the ball position at the pocket was still within a 1/2 inch. Even varying from 2 to 6 inches, the pocket position was within roughly 1.25 inch.
Pin position changes are not the same as drill angle changes (DA and VAL remain constant with changes in pin distance) but it's still interesting. Every 10 degree change in drill angle will shift the PSA 0.75 inch. Regardless, I'd expect a similar (relatively small) amount of change in ball motion going from 40 to 50 to 60 degrees. I was just hoping to quantify it...
"If nothing else, I hope this article will convince some people that—at least in most “normal” situations—tiny differences in layout do not cause gigantic differences in ball motion. Every minute you waste stressing out about small and insignificant differences in your layouts is a minute you’ll never get back. There are more important things in bowling to worry about, so spend that time worrying about them instead."
I agree.
Steve
Pin position changes are not the same as drill angle changes (DA and VAL remain constant with changes in pin distance) but it's still interesting. Every 10 degree change in drill angle will shift the PSA 0.75 inch. Regardless, I'd expect a similar (relatively small) amount of change in ball motion going from 40 to 50 to 60 degrees. I was just hoping to quantify it...
"If nothing else, I hope this article will convince some people that—at least in most “normal” situations—tiny differences in layout do not cause gigantic differences in ball motion. Every minute you waste stressing out about small and insignificant differences in your layouts is a minute you’ll never get back. There are more important things in bowling to worry about, so spend that time worrying about them instead."
I agree.
Steve
16 mph (14-14.5 on monitor), 375 rpm, PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8 up, AT: 12*, AR: 45*