40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg & Radical Cash layouts
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- jannepalo
- Member
- Posts: 46
- Joined: December 14th, 2015, 10:32 pm
- Positive Axis Point: 6 over 1/16 down
- Speed: 17
- Rev Rate: 425
- Axis Tilt: 8
- Axis Rotation: 70
- Heavy Oil Ball: Morich Frenzy
- Medium Oil Ball: Quantum Black, Magnitude 035
- Light Oil Ball: Fanatic BTU, RackAttack Pearl, Black Urethane, Columbia Jazz
- Preferred Company: Brunswick
- Location: Seinäjoki Finland
40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg & Radical Cash layouts
Hi!
I have not drilled many Track balls before and the bowlers has challenging specs.
Track Cyborg
--> http://www.trackbowling.com/products/balls/upper-mid-performance/cyborg
--> Link to bowlers specs
--> Couble videos taken few months back when throwing guru master 45/3/50
In the second link you find the image that has the layout that I have been planning on.
Bowlers specs are 40 tilt , 70 rotation, 17mph offhand, 235 rpm.
The lanes he bowls on are New Brunswick Pro lanes.
He wants this ball for fresh easy THS.
Im thinking 25/5,25/60 and P3-P4 if necessary
I have not drilled many Track balls before and the bowlers has challenging specs.
Track Cyborg
--> http://www.trackbowling.com/products/balls/upper-mid-performance/cyborg
--> Link to bowlers specs
--> Couble videos taken few months back when throwing guru master 45/3/50
In the second link you find the image that has the layout that I have been planning on.
Bowlers specs are 40 tilt , 70 rotation, 17mph offhand, 235 rpm.
The lanes he bowls on are New Brunswick Pro lanes.
He wants this ball for fresh easy THS.
Im thinking 25/5,25/60 and P3-P4 if necessary
Last edited by jannepalo on November 25th, 2017, 7:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
Janne Palo
ProShop Operator / Bowling Center Staff
Bowling Center Seinäjoki, Finland
ETBF level 1 ProShop Driller / Manager
B.E. Automation. Seinäjoki University of Applied Sciences.
Stats:
PAP 6 over 1/16 down
17 mph
425 rpm
Rotation 70
Tilt 8 dg
ProShop Operator / Bowling Center Staff
Bowling Center Seinäjoki, Finland
ETBF level 1 ProShop Driller / Manager
B.E. Automation. Seinäjoki University of Applied Sciences.
Stats:
PAP 6 over 1/16 down
17 mph
425 rpm
Rotation 70
Tilt 8 dg
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: 40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg layout
.007 mass bias rating is basically a Symmetrical.
You will most Definitely want a P4 balance hole equal to or larger than the thumb hole.
Without a balance hole it will be a low flare symmetrical layout ~80-5.25-62,5
You will most Definitely want a P4 balance hole equal to or larger than the thumb hole.
Without a balance hole it will be a low flare symmetrical layout ~80-5.25-62,5
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
-
- BCU Graduate Layouts
- Posts: 477
- Joined: January 24th, 2012, 11:02 pm
- Positive Axis Point: 4 1/2 Left x 3/4 Up
- Speed: 18.5 off Hand
- Rev Rate: 350
- Axis Tilt: 17
- Axis Rotation: 55
- Heavy Oil Ball: Guru Mighty
- Medium Oil Ball: Guru
- Light Oil Ball: Torrid Affair
- Preferred Company: Radical
Re: 40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg layout
Sounds like a perfect candidate for a double thumb layout. The ball has good specs for it too.jannepalo wrote:Hi!
I have not drilled many Track balls before and the bowlers has challenging specs.
Track Cyborg
--> http://www.trackbowling.com/products/balls/upper-mid-performance/cyborg
--> Link to bowlers specs
--> Couble videos taken few months back when throwing guru master 45/3/50
In the second link you find the image that has the layout that I have been planning on.
Bowlers specs are 40 tilt , 70 rotation, 17mph offhand, 235 rpm.
The lanes he bowls on are New Brunswick Pro lanes.
He wants this ball for fresh easy THS.
Im thinking 25/5,25/60 and P3-P4 if necessary
James Talley
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: 40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg layout
Unfortunately the Cg is at least 1" left of the line from Pin to Mass Bias.Arkansas wrote: Sounds like a perfect candidate for a double thumb layout. The ball has good specs for it too.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B18M6x ... RrTlk/view
With the short horizontal PAP component the base layout for the Double Thumb layout will put the Cg left of grip center. Also the request is for an easy THS shot, the Double Thumb layout will be way too strong imo.
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Re: 40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg layout
Here is a topic on Modified Double Thumb layouts.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=9320&hilit
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=9320&hilit
* MPH @ aarows
* RPM
AR *
AT *
PAP 3 3/4"
(* rebuilding)
“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
― Neil deGrasse Tyson
* RPM
AR *
AT *
PAP 3 3/4"
(* rebuilding)
“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
― Neil deGrasse Tyson
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: 40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg layout
Modified Double Thumb layout for this bowler would be ~30-4-30 P4
Cut and pasted from Track's website...
Our new QR-7 Hybrid cover has a lot of familiarities in chemical composition with our QR-9 covers used on the highly successful Paradox line. This cover is perfect for those looking for strong overall hooking power on medium to heavy oil patterns.
I think jannepalo has it right with the 25-5.25-62,5 for the itended use on an easy house shot. But to make it work a P4 balance hole will be needed to create the Asymmetry needed to be a successful layout.
Cut and pasted from Track's website...
Our new QR-7 Hybrid cover has a lot of familiarities in chemical composition with our QR-9 covers used on the highly successful Paradox line. This cover is perfect for those looking for strong overall hooking power on medium to heavy oil patterns.
I think jannepalo has it right with the 25-5.25-62,5 for the itended use on an easy house shot. But to make it work a P4 balance hole will be needed to create the Asymmetry needed to be a successful layout.
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
- jannepalo
- Member
- Posts: 46
- Joined: December 14th, 2015, 10:32 pm
- Positive Axis Point: 6 over 1/16 down
- Speed: 17
- Rev Rate: 425
- Axis Tilt: 8
- Axis Rotation: 70
- Heavy Oil Ball: Morich Frenzy
- Medium Oil Ball: Quantum Black, Magnitude 035
- Light Oil Ball: Fanatic BTU, RackAttack Pearl, Black Urethane, Columbia Jazz
- Preferred Company: Brunswick
- Location: Seinäjoki Finland
Re: 40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg layout
We went with the layout I was thinking and the ball was nice after adding little surface. He still uses the ball on ths.
Now he needs a ball for league that would work in heavy oil. I have been thinking Radical Fix with 35/3,75/30.
Now he needs a ball for league that would work in heavy oil. I have been thinking Radical Fix with 35/3,75/30.
Janne Palo
ProShop Operator / Bowling Center Staff
Bowling Center Seinäjoki, Finland
ETBF level 1 ProShop Driller / Manager
B.E. Automation. Seinäjoki University of Applied Sciences.
Stats:
PAP 6 over 1/16 down
17 mph
425 rpm
Rotation 70
Tilt 8 dg
ProShop Operator / Bowling Center Staff
Bowling Center Seinäjoki, Finland
ETBF level 1 ProShop Driller / Manager
B.E. Automation. Seinäjoki University of Applied Sciences.
Stats:
PAP 6 over 1/16 down
17 mph
425 rpm
Rotation 70
Tilt 8 dg
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: 40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg layout
You are going to need a VERY long pin to Cg. Close to 5"jannepalo wrote:We went with the layout I was thinking and the ball was nice after adding little surface. He still uses the ball on ths.
Now he needs a ball for league that would work in heavy oil. I have been thinking Radical Fix with 35/3,75/30.
You will also want less than 3 oz top weight.
If the ball specs are not optimum I would consider (drilling angle to Cg)50-3-50 balance hole 2" below midline on the VAL.
This is a pin the the ring finger layout.
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
- jannepalo
- Member
- Posts: 46
- Joined: December 14th, 2015, 10:32 pm
- Positive Axis Point: 6 over 1/16 down
- Speed: 17
- Rev Rate: 425
- Axis Tilt: 8
- Axis Rotation: 70
- Heavy Oil Ball: Morich Frenzy
- Medium Oil Ball: Quantum Black, Magnitude 035
- Light Oil Ball: Fanatic BTU, RackAttack Pearl, Black Urethane, Columbia Jazz
- Preferred Company: Brunswick
- Location: Seinäjoki Finland
Re: 40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg & Radical Fix layouts
I really would like to go with something stronger. What would be the current -go to- ball in Brunswick/DV8/Radical line for high tilt bowler?
Janne Palo
ProShop Operator / Bowling Center Staff
Bowling Center Seinäjoki, Finland
ETBF level 1 ProShop Driller / Manager
B.E. Automation. Seinäjoki University of Applied Sciences.
Stats:
PAP 6 over 1/16 down
17 mph
425 rpm
Rotation 70
Tilt 8 dg
ProShop Operator / Bowling Center Staff
Bowling Center Seinäjoki, Finland
ETBF level 1 ProShop Driller / Manager
B.E. Automation. Seinäjoki University of Applied Sciences.
Stats:
PAP 6 over 1/16 down
17 mph
425 rpm
Rotation 70
Tilt 8 dg
- MegaMav
- Moderator
- Posts: 4694
- Joined: April 27th, 2007, 5:00 am
- THS Average: 225
- Sport Average: 200
- Positive Axis Point: 5.5 Over & 1 Up
- Speed: 16.0 MPH - Camera
- Rev Rate: 375
- Axis Tilt: 14
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical - Informer
- Medium Oil Ball: Brunswick - Fearless
- Light Oil Ball: Radical - Bonus Pearl
- Preferred Company: Radical Bowling Technologies
- Location: Malta, NY
Re: 40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg & Radical Fix layouts
Look for balls with High INT Diff to transition the ball faster.jannepalo wrote:I really would like to go with something stronger. What would be the current -go to- ball in Brunswick/DV8/Radical line for high tilt bowler?
Stronger covers help too.
Cash, More Cash, Katana
- jannepalo
- Member
- Posts: 46
- Joined: December 14th, 2015, 10:32 pm
- Positive Axis Point: 6 over 1/16 down
- Speed: 17
- Rev Rate: 425
- Axis Tilt: 8
- Axis Rotation: 70
- Heavy Oil Ball: Morich Frenzy
- Medium Oil Ball: Quantum Black, Magnitude 035
- Light Oil Ball: Fanatic BTU, RackAttack Pearl, Black Urethane, Columbia Jazz
- Preferred Company: Brunswick
- Location: Seinäjoki Finland
Re: 40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg & Radical Fix layouts
I ordered the Cash from our importer. I got one with 3-4" pin.MegaMav wrote:
Look for balls with High INT Diff to transition the ball faster.
Stronger covers help too.
Cash, More Cash, Katana
Im thinking 35/4,75/35 with this one.
>>PICTURE<<
Janne Palo
ProShop Operator / Bowling Center Staff
Bowling Center Seinäjoki, Finland
ETBF level 1 ProShop Driller / Manager
B.E. Automation. Seinäjoki University of Applied Sciences.
Stats:
PAP 6 over 1/16 down
17 mph
425 rpm
Rotation 70
Tilt 8 dg
ProShop Operator / Bowling Center Staff
Bowling Center Seinäjoki, Finland
ETBF level 1 ProShop Driller / Manager
B.E. Automation. Seinäjoki University of Applied Sciences.
Stats:
PAP 6 over 1/16 down
17 mph
425 rpm
Rotation 70
Tilt 8 dg
- MegaMav
- Moderator
- Posts: 4694
- Joined: April 27th, 2007, 5:00 am
- THS Average: 225
- Sport Average: 200
- Positive Axis Point: 5.5 Over & 1 Up
- Speed: 16.0 MPH - Camera
- Rev Rate: 375
- Axis Tilt: 14
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical - Informer
- Medium Oil Ball: Brunswick - Fearless
- Light Oil Ball: Radical - Bonus Pearl
- Preferred Company: Radical Bowling Technologies
- Location: Malta, NY
Re: 40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg & Radical Fix layouts
Go for it!jannepalo wrote:
I ordered the Cash from our importer. I got one with 3-4" pin.
Im thinking 35/4,75/35 with this one.
>>PICTURE<<
Drill the ring finger 3.25" deep.
-
- Member
- Posts: 657
- Joined: November 22nd, 2014, 6:07 am
- THS Average: 205
- Positive Axis Point: 5 5/8 up 3/4
- Speed: 14 mph off hand
- Rev Rate: 300
- Axis Tilt: 15
- Axis Rotation: 60
- Location: Hong Kong
Re: 40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg & Radical Cash layouts
Couldn't find much info on modified DT. How is it different from DT (30* VAL and 4" PAP-PIN)
Adrian
Right handed
PAP: 5 1/8 up 3/4
Speed: 15.5 mph (Kegel Specto)
Rev: 350 RPM
Axis tilt: 18-20*
Axis rotation: 60*
Right handed
PAP: 5 1/8 up 3/4
Speed: 15.5 mph (Kegel Specto)
Rev: 350 RPM
Axis tilt: 18-20*
Axis rotation: 60*
Re: 40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg & Radical Cash layouts
* MPH @ aarows
* RPM
AR *
AT *
PAP 3 3/4"
(* rebuilding)
“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
― Neil deGrasse Tyson
* RPM
AR *
AT *
PAP 3 3/4"
(* rebuilding)
“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
― Neil deGrasse Tyson
-
- Member
- Posts: 657
- Joined: November 22nd, 2014, 6:07 am
- THS Average: 205
- Positive Axis Point: 5 5/8 up 3/4
- Speed: 14 mph off hand
- Rev Rate: 300
- Axis Tilt: 15
- Axis Rotation: 60
- Location: Hong Kong
Re: 40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg & Radical Cash layouts
Thanks. From the post and the other posts which it led me to, the Modified DT gives a lot of flexibility and combinations of PAP-PIN distance and balance hole location.Dustin wrote:viewtopic.php?p=73730#p73730
PAP-PIN distance - "a modified double thumb layout with the pin 4 1/2 -5 " to the PAP" viewtopic.php?p=3863#p3863" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and Mo said, "Try a "Double Thumb" angle set up with a 4 3/4" pin to PAP distance. The balance hole options become endless. It's, then, up to how good your decisions are." viewtopic.php?p=3870#p3870" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The PAP-PIN distance of modified DT layout can be somewhere between 4.5" (or 4"?) to 5". And the balance hole location can be further away from the thumb hole (1.5 inches base). The modified DT layout is good for low tilt bowler to reduce jumpiness if I understand correctly.
Adrian
Right handed
PAP: 5 1/8 up 3/4
Speed: 15.5 mph (Kegel Specto)
Rev: 350 RPM
Axis tilt: 18-20*
Axis rotation: 60*
Right handed
PAP: 5 1/8 up 3/4
Speed: 15.5 mph (Kegel Specto)
Rev: 350 RPM
Axis tilt: 18-20*
Axis rotation: 60*