Do sym drillings ever need a specific drill angle?

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EricHartwell
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Re: Do sym drillings ever need a specific drill angle?

Post by EricHartwell »

Lledsmarttam wrote:Ok Eric, if I understand correctly you said from earlier posts and this one if I drill it 60x4x30 and just drill fingers deep enough to be legal for f/t weight then drill ring deeper for side weight that will keep reaction as described previously? Without the phole? Yes, without the weight hole, manipulating the depth of the fingers for static weights without making a Major change in ball reaction.

Also I noticed from your original arsenal suggestion that you said 60x4x30 w p-3 hole and after I gave you which ball this changed to p2. Is theirs a typo or intended change?
Intended Change, knowing that the Cg distance was not optimal for the P3.
The P2 is to make legal if you like the reaction or the option to drill the fingers deeper to add a P3 to make it stronger If that is what you want to do with it. It was for more balance hole options to dial the reaction in.
Eric Hartwell

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PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
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12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Lledsmarttam
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Re: Do sym drillings ever need a specific drill angle?

Post by Lledsmarttam »

Ok I gotcha. Thanks for bearing with me here. You are a trooper!!

Which ball with stronger cover would you suggest?
-Knowledge is power-
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EricHartwell
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Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
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Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
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Location: Michigan

Re: Do sym drillings ever need a specific drill angle?

Post by EricHartwell »

I don't sell bowling balls so I try to stay away from making specific ball recommendations.

Staying within the Pyramid product line I would pick an Asymmetrical from their Pro Performance category and use a Midlane layout on it. This one you will definitely want Dull for the longer conditions.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
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Re: Do sym drillings ever need a specific drill angle?

Post by Lledsmarttam »

EricHartwell wrote:I don't sell bowling balls so I try to stay away from making specific ball recommendations.

Staying within the Pyramid product line I would pick an Asymmetrical from their Pro Performance category and use a Midlane layout on it. This one you will definitely want Dull for the longer conditions.

Ok sounds good. You have been so much help!! Thinking on a Force
-Knowledge is power-
PAP-5 1/16 by 3/4 up
Speed-14-15mph on monitor
Rev-325rpm
Tilt-10*
Rotation-70*-90*
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Positive Axis Point: 5 1/16 by 3/4 up
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Heavy Oil Ball: Optimus solid
Medium Oil Ball: Antidote, Zero Gravity
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Re: Do sym drillings ever need a specific drill angle?

Post by Lledsmarttam »

EricHartwell wrote:
Same ball? What ball are you referring to?
What kind of reaction are you looking for?
I always start by figuring the Benchmark and working from there.

Benchmark 90* Total, 1.5:1 Ratio

Basic arsenal.....
Asymmetrical
Totally Strong ....... 45-4.5-25
Midlane ............... 35-4.25-35
Benchmark .......... 55-4.25-35
Long and Strong ... 75-4.25-35
Control ................ 55-3.75-55
low flare .............. 75-2.25-35

Symmetrical
Totally Strong ....... Double Thumb
Midlane ............... 60-4-30 balance hole 1.5" below midline on the VAL
Benchmark .......... 60-4-30 P3
Long and Strong ... 80-4-30
Control ................ Pin in the Ring Finger
low flare .............. 75-5-30
Eric
I have a question regarding how you come to my total sums starting point. I have read the article in wiki several times and if I do what I think I start at 95*. Take off 5* for slight speed dominance. So at 100* now. Then take off 10* for very low tilt and add 5* for high rotation so I come up with 95*.

Can you explain where I go wrong in this process please?
-Knowledge is power-
PAP-5 1/16 by 3/4 up
Speed-14-15mph on monitor
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Re: Do sym drillings ever need a specific drill angle?

Post by elgavachon »

erased because too hard to follow my thinking
Last edited by elgavachon on August 17th, 2017, 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Do sym drillings ever need a specific drill angle?

Post by elgavachon »

Lledsmarttam wrote:
Eric
I have a question regarding how you come to my total sums starting point. I have read the article in wiki several times and if I do what I think I start at 95*. Take off 5* for slight speed dominance. So at 100* now. (95* -5* =90*) Then take off 10* for very low tilt (add for low tilt not subtract) and add 5* for high rotation (subtract for high rotation not add) so I come up with 95*.

Can you explain where I go wrong in this process please?
High tilt and high rotation adds skid so you subtract total sums.
Last edited by elgavachon on August 17th, 2017, 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Lledsmarttam
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Positive Axis Point: 5 1/16 by 3/4 up
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Rev Rate: 325
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Axis Rotation: 70
Heavy Oil Ball: Optimus solid
Medium Oil Ball: Antidote, Zero Gravity
Light Oil Ball: Rave On,Pathogen
Location: Lake Geneva WI

Re: Do sym drillings ever need a specific drill angle?

Post by Lledsmarttam »

So you add for low tilt and subtract for high rotation then?
-Knowledge is power-
PAP-5 1/16 by 3/4 up
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Re: Do sym drillings ever need a specific drill angle?

Post by elgavachon »

Lledsmarttam wrote:So you add for low tilt and subtract for high rotation then?
Yes
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Re: Do sym drillings ever need a specific drill angle?

Post by elgavachon »

That is also why you use lower ratios (Drilling angle to Val angle) for higher Tilt.
and lower ratios for higher rotation.

I am sure you have seen the chart in the Ratio Guide which uses this rational & gives an idea how much to change the ratios.
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... atio_Guide" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
scroll down to see it.
Last edited by elgavachon on August 17th, 2017, 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Lledsmarttam
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Positive Axis Point: 5 1/16 by 3/4 up
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Axis Rotation: 70
Heavy Oil Ball: Optimus solid
Medium Oil Ball: Antidote, Zero Gravity
Light Oil Ball: Rave On,Pathogen
Location: Lake Geneva WI

Re: Do sym drillings ever need a specific drill angle?

Post by Lledsmarttam »

So Eric has me at a 90 for benchmark. With my stats is that correct?

And at 1.5:1 ratio on benchmark
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PAP-5 1/16 by 3/4 up
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Re: Do sym drillings ever need a specific drill angle?

Post by elgavachon »

Lledsmarttam wrote:So Eric has me at a 90 for benchmark. With my stats is that correct?

And at 1.5:1 ratio on benchmark
Looks good to me.
Lledsmarttam
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Positive Axis Point: 5 1/16 by 3/4 up
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Medium Oil Ball: Antidote, Zero Gravity
Light Oil Ball: Rave On,Pathogen
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Re: Do sym drillings ever need a specific drill angle?

Post by Lledsmarttam »

elgavachon wrote: Looks good to me.

OK thank you. It's not that I didn't trust Eric, I would just like to be able to figure this out for other bowlers that I may be drilling for. Just started drilling within the last year and a half and learning something new every day. Thanks a lot for your input and help
-Knowledge is power-
PAP-5 1/16 by 3/4 up
Speed-14-15mph on monitor
Rev-325rpm
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Rotation-70*-90*
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Re: Do sym drillings ever need a specific drill angle?

Post by elgavachon »

Lledsmarttam wrote:

OK thank you. It's not that I didn't trust Eric, I would just like to be able to figure this out for other bowlers that I may be drilling for. Just started drilling within the last year and a half and learning something new every day. Thanks a lot for your input and help
Eric is very good and very helpful. To see why he gave you the 1.5:1 ratio, go to the ratio chart and find 10* tilt in the middle column. He then moved 1 column to the right for higher rotation and then another column to the right for a combination of speed dominance and higher rotation. that shows 1.5:1. If you have balls with that ratio and they are too jumpy or hard to control (not on a house shot which requires your control layout ratios), then you could lower your ratios a little. If you find you do not have enough back end, you would raise a little. That is how you do it for the people you drill for.
Lledsmarttam
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Posts: 136
Joined: August 8th, 2017, 1:40 am
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Positive Axis Point: 5 1/16 by 3/4 up
Speed: 14-15 mph on monitor
Rev Rate: 325
Axis Tilt: 10
Axis Rotation: 70
Heavy Oil Ball: Optimus solid
Medium Oil Ball: Antidote, Zero Gravity
Light Oil Ball: Rave On,Pathogen
Location: Lake Geneva WI

Re: Do sym drillings ever need a specific drill angle?

Post by Lledsmarttam »

elgavachon wrote: Eric is very good and very helpful. To see why he gave you the 1.5:1 ratio, go to the ratio chart and find 10* tilt in the middle column. He then moved 1 column to the right for higher rotation and then another column to the right for a combination of speed dominance and higher rotation. that shows 1.5:1. If you have balls with that ratio and they are too jumpy or hard to control (not on a house shot which requires your control layout ratios), then you could lower your ratios a little. If you find you do not have enough back end, you would raise a little. That is how you do it for the people you drill for.
Ok sounds good. Thanks for your help. Believe it or not I understand the ratio chart more so than the total sums reasoning, but with everyone's help on bowlingchat I am starting to understand a lot more.
-Knowledge is power-
PAP-5 1/16 by 3/4 up
Speed-14-15mph on monitor
Rev-325rpm
Tilt-10*
Rotation-70*-90*
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