the TRI GRIP disection

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MWhite
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Re: the TRI GRIP disection

Post by MWhite »

Bhb wrote: ...
As for the Tri-Grip and the "dual angle" layout, it is established with a mere 5/16" additional movement towards the positive axis point than what you would do with a standard T grip.
...
Bill Hall
The offset might get you close occasionally, but it's not accurate.

The Dual Angle method produces a grip centerline for the T-Grip style.
That line passes through the center of the thumb, and splits the bridge.

The Tri-Grip starts with the middle finger centerline which doesn't pass through the thumb, and doesn't split the bridge. Therefore those two lines are at an angle to each other.

How much of an angle is based on the offset to the thumb centerline, finger spans, finger hole sizes, and bridge size.

Since the angle is variable, based on each hand, there can't be a simple offset to the pin location.

I'm working the math to take the parameters used in the Tri-Grip, and computing the equivalent T-Grip specs.
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Re: the TRI GRIP disection

Post by MWhite »

JohnP wrote:I can't comment on how the tri-grip parameters are established. But you're going to have to explain why, after a ball has been drilled, I can't measure hole sizes, pitches, and spans and duplicate that on a second ball with a different dual angle layout. -- JohnP
I think there are two different definitions of the word "copy" in use.

1) The ability to duplicate a Tri-Grip ball with no knowledge of the Tri-Grip process.
2) The ability to create a Tri-Grip ball from scratch with no knowledge of the process.

I agree #1 is possible, and #2 is highly unlikely.
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Re: the TRI GRIP disection

Post by Mo Pinel »

In my mind, copy means "replicate"!
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Re: the TRI GRIP disection

Post by RevZiLLa »

Drill a Trip-Grip. Throw the ball and find the PAP. Then draw a centerline that bisects the bridge and goes through the center of the thumb. Divide the longest full span (ring or middle finger) by 2 and mark that as your grip center and make a midline. Measure your PAP specs and your spans and pitches relative to this. Now you can use dual angles all you want and still drill your Tri-Grip fit from this different frame of reference.
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Re: the TRI GRIP disection

Post by guruU2 »

RevZiLLa wrote:Drill a Trip-Grip. Throw the ball and find the PAP. Then draw a centerline that bisects the bridge and goes through the center of the thumb. Divide the longest full span (ring or middle finger) by 2 and mark that as your grip center and make a midline. Measure your PAP specs and your spans and pitches relative to this. Now you can use dual angles all you want and still drill your Tri-Grip fit from this different frame of reference.
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Re: the TRI GRIP disection

Post by MWhite »

RevZiLLa wrote:Drill a Trip-Grip. Throw the ball and find the PAP. Then draw a centerline that bisects the bridge and goes through the center of the thumb. Divide the longest full span (ring or middle finger) by 2 and mark that as your grip center and make a midline. Measure your PAP specs and your spans and pitches relative to this. Now you can use dual angles all you want and still drill your Tri-Grip fit from this different frame of reference.
The main reason I can see for drilling a generic layout ball with the Tri-Grip is that with the different pitches that the Trip-Grip uses, I expect the PAP to change when measured from the T-Grip perspective.
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Re: the TRI GRIP disection

Post by stan »

Just purchased the system and had a chance to drill up a ball and try it out. Here is what I found.

The weight of the ball moved from my index finger more to the center of my hand. Based on this, the ball did feel a bit lighter.

I come off the side of the ball and my track is down a bit, but after throwing the new grip, my track actually moved up about a inch or so.

Hand stayed in the ball a bit longer and was able to feel the ball exit my fingers much better. Before you ask, no, there was no grab, just the feel of my fingers going thru the ball.

I did encounter one problem. Using Bill's starting pitches, I did have to squeeze the ball a bit to hold onto it at first. I added some tape and it was better. I just removed the slug and added a bit more forward pitch to my thumb. Will try it out a bit later on.

I will have to play with the pitches a bit before I will consider this a "Home Run". By the way, when I went back to my old grip, I found myself squeezing it more and almost dropping it. The weight shift for me was substantial.

I am sure the results will vary from bowler to bowler but I feel Bill might be on to something.

For those that have tried it, does my results match yours ?
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Re: the TRI GRIP disection

Post by littleJOEYrimshot »

as of oct 1st I've had 40 customers try the tri grip, 35 love it and have decided to change their arsenal accordingly. thanks bill hall

joe cerar
Last edited by littleJOEYrimshot on October 11th, 2013, 2:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: the TRI GRIP disection

Post by MWhite »

stan wrote:Just purchased the system and had a chance to drill up a ball and try it out. Here is what I found.
...
For those that have tried it, does my results match yours ?
My results were similar to yours.

My PAP moved from 3 3/4 x 3/4u to 4 3/4 x 1 7/8u

I've never exactly measured my tilt/rotation but my tilt was high 30+ and my rotation, while low, is hard to estimate with the high tilt.

With the Tri-Grip, my tilt appeared to drop to about 10-15 degrees, and the axis rotation was in the 20-30 range.
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Re: the TRI GRIP disection

Post by rrb6699 »

i realize you have to put a label on something to name it, but, if you want to change tilt on a ball it seems to me that to increase it you would pitch the thumb away from the palm (center grip) and to decrease it the opposite. also dropping the ring fingers would decrease tilt because as the thumb clears the balls tendency would be to roll more forward with less tilt because the ring finger would dominate more.

just for this conversation i'm taking finger pitches out of the equation and assuming standard baseline pitches for each bowler.

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Re: the TRI GRIP disection

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rrb6699 wrote:i realize you have to put a label on something to name it, but, if you want to change tilt on a ball it seems to me that to increase it you would pitch the thumb away from the palm (center grip) and to decrease it the opposite. also dropping the ring fingers would decrease tilt because as the thumb clears the balls tendency would be to roll more forward with less tilt because the ring finger would dominate more.

just for this conversation i'm taking finger pitches out of the equation and assuming standard baseline pitches for each bowler.

rr
Take your current pitches and add 1" right pitch to all holes. The grip should feel the same since the holes are the same relative to each other. The weight of the ball will feel quite different because where the mass is located relatively to the palm. I think such a drilling would cause an increase in tilt.

Then take your current pitches and add 1" left pitch. I think this would cause a decrease in tilt.

For me, the Tri-Grip adds left pitch to the thumb, while adding right pitch to the fingers.

It looks like the pitch of the thumb is more important to tilt than the pitch of the fingers.

Finger spans could be acting as a fine adjustment while thumb pitch as a coarse adjustment.
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Re: the TRI GRIP disection

Post by J_w73 »

rrb6699 wrote:i realize you have to put a label on something to name it, but, if you want to change tilt on a ball it seems to me that to increase it you would pitch the thumb away from the palm (center grip) and to decrease it the opposite. also dropping the ring fingers would decrease tilt because as the thumb clears the balls tendency would be to roll more forward with less tilt because the ring finger would dominate more.

just for this conversation i'm taking finger pitches out of the equation and assuming standard baseline pitches for each bowler.

rr
Are you confusing the increasing and decreasing of tilt with raising and lowering of the track? Because from my experience it is the exact opposite of what you are saying. Putting more pitch away from the palm creates lower axis tilt angle and a higher track. Putting more pitch toward palm promotes a higher axis tilt angle and a lower track.
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Re: the TRI GRIP disection

Post by sprocket »

All other things equal I would think right lateral would decrease tilt, but what about someone who tends to come over the top of the ball at release or turns the ball early? When I do that the track hits the thumb hole so I assume tilt goes down. Also I bowl thumbless and it is very easy to turn the ball early and top the ball. If I went with a right lateral shift in order to get more of the ball's weight to the outside and therefore DID NOT turn it early or top it and instead played more of the inside of the ball, would that not INCREASE tilt???
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Re: the TRI GRIP disection

Post by littleJOEYrimshot »

littleJOEYrimshot wrote:as of oct 1st I've had 40 customers try the tri grip, 35 love it and have decided to change their arsenal accordingly. thanks bill hall

joe cerar

i've modified the number of customers who have tried/love the tri grip above.

i've also been working on a spherical equation for the conversion of tri grip to t grip drilling. i'm almost finished. i would like bill hall's approval before i would publish this information.
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Re: the TRI GRIP disection

Post by Daryl »

Are there any options for one to be able to try this grip system without having to travel 250+ miles to a pro shop that can do it. So far no responses from my local pro shops in learning this system. And I do not have the money to invest in this to just try it.

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Re: the TRI GRIP disection

Post by rmack »

littleJOEYrimshot wrote: i've modified the number of customers who have tried/love the tri grip above.

i've also been working on a spherical equation for the conversion of tri grip to t grip drilling. i'm almost finished. i would like bill hall's approval before i would publish this information.

Joe,

I am glad that your customers are happy, that is our ultimate goal as shop operators :D. But I doubt that you will get approval from Mr. Hall, as he has ascertained in both print and verbally that it is impossible to convert his method to a T-grip drilling. Why would he agree to devalue his process by showing it can be done in such a base manner as the lowly T-grip?

I assume that this means that you have drilled one in such a manner, and the player cannot tell which is which by feel?
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Re: the TRI GRIP disection

Post by MWhite »

littleJOEYrimshot wrote:as of oct 1st I've had 40 customers try the tri grip, 35 love it and have decided to change their arsenal accordingly. thanks bill hall

joe cerar
How do you go about advertising the Tri-Grip to drive new customers into your shop?

Or is it just an option on the "menu" that customers already in your shop can discover?
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Re: the TRI GRIP disection

Post by stan »

I made up a little sign stating that the Tri-Grip is available here. What this has done is to create conversation about the grip. I have recommended trying it on an older ball first, which has made sense to many of my bowlers. Unfortunately, since we are already into the season, there is some hesitation for the ones that are bowling good to try something different, which is totally understandable. Of course, there are some that do not care and are always into trying something different.

I also drilled up a ball using the Tri-Grip system and have it on display. I made the thumb hole a bit larger and did not glue in the inserts (so I can change them) and also used a 4 3/8 span, something that might be close for most bowlers. Now I know its not perfect but it does give you a bit of the feel of the new grip.

All this appears to be working and generating a lot on interest.
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Re: the TRI GRIP disection

Post by Dustin »

It seems to me that most have raised their track and the ball sits more in the palm of the hand. What, if any, change in axis tilt have you seen on average with you customers.
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Re: the TRI GRIP disection

Post by J_w73 »

Dustin? wrote:It seems to me that most have raised their track and the ball sits more in the palm of the hand. What, if any, change in axis tilt have you seen on average with you customers.
I believe the track is getting closer to the thumb hole because you are basically moving the thumb hole left and closer to the track with the tri grip modification.
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