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 Post subject: the TRI GRIP disection
 Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:26 am Post Number: #1 Post
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Just bought Bill Halls tri grip video. I have a dozen customers lined up for testing with rev rate of 220 to 540. i will report the findings. we will be interviewing bill on above180 soon so please share your questions for me to ask bill. i have quite a few already but can always use more....

sample questions:

can tri grip be converted to a T grip drilling
are there certain hand structures it favors
how did you develop this system
who are/were your major influences in this regard
are the recommended pitches set in stone or can there be adjustments
what are the primary benefits of this system
what are the potential drawbacks if any
are there any current pba players using tri grip drilling
can one use interchangeable thumbs and vacu lifts
is there a recommended bridge distance
can you use CLT angles with tri grip

these are just of few I've thought of so far....so help me out Bowling Chat viewers


thanks
joe cerar


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 Post subject: Re: the TRI GRIP disection
 Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:13 pm Post Number: #2 Post
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Question?
Does his system incorporate the 45 degree angle system for drilling of the thumb pitches combined with using the CLT for the fingers?

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 Post subject: Re: the TRI GRIP disection
 Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:15 pm Post Number: #3 Post
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littleJOEYrimshot wrote:
Just bought Bill Halls tri grip video. I have a dozen customers lined up for testing with rev rate of 220 to 540. i will report the findings. we will be interviewing bill on above180 soon so please share your questions for me to ask bill. i have quite a few already but can always use more....

sample questions:

can tri grip be converted to a T grip drilling
are there certain hand structures it favors
how did you develop this system
who are/were your major influences in this regard
are the recommended pitches set in stone or can there be adjustments
what are the primary benefits of this system
what are the potential drawbacks if any
are there any current pba players using tri grip drilling
can one use interchangeable thumbs and vacu lifts
is there a recommended bridge distance
can you use CLT angles with tri grip

these are just of few I've thought of so far....so help me out Bowling Chat viewers


thanks
joe cerar



I would be interested on hearing your thoughts on it. I had a ball drilled up with the method and did not care for it that much. I can see how it allows the ball to sit more in the palm of your hand and off of the index finger but with my release it kind of hurt my fingers. My hand always ends up down the T line of the grip at release and I work the inside of the ball. With the pitch adjustments in the fingers it seemed to put pressure on the sides of my fingers since it biased the finger pitches to the left.

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 Post subject: Re: the TRI GRIP disection
 Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 3:08 pm Post Number: #4 Post
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i would like to hear Mo's thoughts and other great minds located here at BC


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 Post subject: Re: the TRI GRIP disection
 Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:16 pm Post Number: #5 Post
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littleJOEYrimshot wrote:
i would like to hear Mo's thoughts and other great minds located here at BC


Fitting is an art. Do it anyway that works for you. Repeating the grip is simply spherical geometry, once you get the fit! Any grip can be repeated! Science!


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 Post subject: Re: the TRI GRIP disection
 Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:51 am Post Number: #6 Post
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tim and i just concluded our bill hall interview. it should be posted early next week on above180.com

great info for sure


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 Post subject: Re: the TRI GRIP disection
 Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:23 am Post Number: #7 Post
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littleJOEYrimshot wrote:
tim and i just concluded our bill hall interview. it should be posted early next week on above180.com

great info for sure


Is it consistent with my comment?


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 Post subject: Re: the TRI GRIP disection
 Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:13 pm Post Number: #8 Post
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Mo Pinel wrote:
littleJOEYrimshot wrote:
i would like to hear Mo's thoughts and other great minds located here at BC


Fitting is an art. Do it anyway that works for you. Repeating the grip is simply spherical geometry, once you get the fit! Any grip can be repeated! Science!


I'm curious. . . . On other bowling forums, pro shops using the "Tri Grip" system have said you can't copy a ball drilled with this method, unless you are a "Tri Grip" pro shop. I was fairly confident that as long as I took the time to measure span, pitches and any degree of oval, that I could copy any fit. If their statements are, indeed, true, I, for one, would steer clear. I wouldn't want to be at Nationals with cash to buy a new ball and not have someone that could accurately copy an existing fit. I feel it's a little smoke and mirrors at that point. I wonder how different the method is from the Wiki fit. If its worth the $200 . . . Maybe some time in the future I'll try it out.


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 Post subject: Re: the TRI GRIP disection
 Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:22 pm Post Number: #9 Post
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Mo Pinel wrote:
Fitting is an art. Do it anyway that works for you.


Somewhere many moons ago Kemosabe; I remember you saying that you need to fit what you see! There are books on coaching and fitting........but students should not be cloned either on the lanes or in the pro shop.

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 Post subject: Re: the TRI GRIP disection
 Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 4:23 pm Post Number: #10 Post
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TheMilkMan wrote:
Mo Pinel wrote:
littleJOEYrimshot wrote:
i would like to hear Mo's thoughts and other great minds located here at BC


Fitting is an art. Do it anyway that works for you. Repeating the grip is simply spherical geometry, once you get the fit! Any grip can be repeated! Science!


I'm curious. . . . On other bowling forums, pro shops using the "Tri Grip" system have said you can't copy a ball drilled with this method, unless you are a "Tri Grip" pro shop. I was fairly confident that as long as I took the time to measure span, pitches and any degree of oval, that I could copy any fit. If their statements are, indeed, true, I, for one, would steer clear. I wouldn't want to be at Nationals with cash to buy a new ball and not have someone that could accurately copy an existing fit. I feel it's a little smoke and mirrors at that point. I wonder how different the method is from the Wiki fit. If its worth the $200 . . . Maybe some time in the future I'll try it out.


That's crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Anything that can be drilled, can be copied!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's simply spherical geometry co-ordinates!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Math geeks, please confirm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: the TRI GRIP disection
 Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 6:08 pm Post Number: #11 Post
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Anything that can be directly measured can be replicated with the right tools and equipment.
Like Mo says, "Science".

That is, of course, excluding the possibility that Bill Hall has taken up voodoo or black magic of some sort.

My guess is that without the system, one could not possibly apply the procedure to a fresh fit for a bowler; however, once the holes are in one ball properly, it is just a matter of measuring and duplicating.

The secret sauce must be the kinesthesiology that Mr. Hall applies to measuring one's hand.

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 Post subject: Re: the TRI GRIP disection
 Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 6:37 pm Post Number: #12 Post
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I have the system, can it be copied? yes I believe so. I do not have the tools ( or the mathmatics i guess) to copy it. Maybe after a few more people get ahold of the system, someone will figure out a good method for copving it acuratly


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 Post subject: Re: the TRI GRIP disection
 Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 8:15 pm Post Number: #13 Post
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Can a athlete who works the ball from the inside to outside use this type of drilling? My understanding of the thumb pitch used in that system could present problems for this type of release.

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 Post subject: Re: the TRI GRIP disection
 Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:00 pm Post Number: #14 Post
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Why is that? What does a pitch that starts out at 3/8 on the thumb line keep a player from working inside the ball?

If that's the case then it will really make me second guess if I want to keep doing this for my customers.



JMerrell wrote:
Can a athlete who works the ball from the inside to outside use this type of drilling? My understanding of the thumb pitch used in that system could present problems for this type of release.


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 Post subject: Re: the TRI GRIP disection
 Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:09 pm Post Number: #15 Post
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Mo Pinel wrote:
TheMilkMan wrote:
Mo Pinel wrote:
littleJOEYrimshot wrote:
i would like to hear Mo's thoughts and other great minds located here at BC


Fitting is an art. Do it anyway that works for you. Repeating the grip is simply spherical geometry, once you get the fit! Any grip can be repeated! Science!


I'm curious. . . . On other bowling forums, pro shops using the "Tri Grip" system have said you can't copy a ball drilled with this method, unless you are a "Tri Grip" pro shop. I was fairly confident that as long as I took the time to measure span, pitches and any degree of oval, that I could copy any fit. If their statements are, indeed, true, I, for one, would steer clear. I wouldn't want to be at Nationals with cash to buy a new ball and not have someone that could accurately copy an existing fit. I feel it's a little smoke and mirrors at that point. I wonder how different the method is from the Wiki fit. If its worth the $200 . . . Maybe some time in the future I'll try it out.


That's crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Anything that can be drilled, can be copied!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's simply spherical geometry co-ordinates!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Math geeks, please confirm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


It is possible the word "can't" is used in a legal context, as in copyright or patent infringement.

No doubt any pattern can be reverse engineered.


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 Post subject: Re: the TRI GRIP disection
 Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:13 pm Post Number: #16 Post
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MeNoRevs wrote:
Why is that? What does a pitch that starts out at 3/8 on the thumb line keep a player from working inside the ball?


Have you seen or using the technique in the video?

My insiders tell me that this method is using excessive left lateral pitch in the thumb for all right-handed bowlers in an effort to make the ball set more on the palm.

I'm always open for education, but excessive left lateral for a right handed bowler would seem counter productive when trying to work the ball from inside to outside.

Mo, comments please.

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 Post subject: Re: the TRI GRIP disection
 Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:27 pm Post Number: #17 Post
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JMerrell wrote:
MeNoRevs wrote:
Why is that? What does a pitch that starts out at 3/8 on the thumb line keep a player from working inside the ball?


Have you seen or using the technique in the video?

My insiders tell me that this method is using excessive left lateral pitch in the thumb for all right-handed bowlers in an effort to make the ball set more on the palm.

I'm always open for education, but excessive left lateral for a right handed bowler would seem counter productive when trying to work the ball from inside to outside.

Mo, comments please.


Hey Jim, thanks for the reply.

Yes, I seen and use the system. For right handers you do use more than what has been taught or used in other fitting systems. Not sure if I would call it excessive. I call it different :)

I too, is always open to be educated. I am just not sure how that kind of pitch would cause the hand to have a hard time to understand. I will contact Bill to see if he would like to participate in this disucssion, as I have a huge amount of respect for him, as well as people like you.


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 Post subject: Re: the TRI GRIP disection
 Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 12:56 am Post Number: #18 Post
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MeNoRevs wrote:
I will contact Bill to see if he would like to participate in this disucssion




The invitation was previously sent out. Knowing Bill, he may or may not respond. I hope he does.

First, I suggest everyone who is interested in this topic, especially the pro shop technicians- get the video and evaluate it as the primary source material and evaluate it conceptually and/or experimentally (empirically) for yourself. It is different. Just like the max-y grip, things are not as they appear to be w/o hard analysis. The response by the bowlers has been, on the whole, very favorable. As within Jim's observation, a couple of our bowlers have complained they can not "hit" the ball as hard but they recognize that this grip has its place and are willing to use their traditional grip (when appropriate) and the Tri grip when appropriate. But like all new experimental procedures, it may need modifications but again, the response on this end has been very favorable. Learnmore has done a lot with this grip and his insights may be of value.

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 Post subject: Re: the TRI GRIP disection
 Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 12:59 am Post Number: #19 Post
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Extra left for right-handers will result in the palm of the hand laying flatter on the ball. That will result in the hand going around the ball more easily for a lot of bowlers, but probably no where near every bowler. In most cases, it will cause the hand to get on the outside of the ball sooner. I don't like using the words "always" or "never". I also resist "one size fits all" techniques. I'm staying with what I teach. Personal preference!


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 Post subject: Re: the TRI GRIP disection
 Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 1:21 am Post Number: #20 Post
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As Mo has stated- "Fitting is an art"- as of now, with our level of knowledge and our current state of tool development, fitting has a LONG way to go to be considered to be a "science".

Mo Pinel wrote:
I don't like using the words "always" or "never".


In the world of empirical science, words/concepts such as "ways" or "never" are, probably, inappropriate as one never knows when those "black swans" will appear.

Mo Pinel wrote:
I also resist "one size fits all" techniques


In the existential world we share, "reality" tends to be vey messy and those who do follow "one size fits all techniques" tend to eventually go over cliffs because of the inability to adapt to a changing environment. But, in this case, Mr. Hall's tri grip should be given a chance to compete in the world of the developing/evolving ideas in bowling. Again, get the video. Do the analysis based on your level of development and reach a subjective, but authentic conclusion.

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