Finger pitches and spans
Moderator: Moderators
-
- Member
- Posts: 35
- Joined: July 17th, 2010, 3:59 pm
- THS Average: 229
- Positive Axis Point: 5 1/4 up 3/8
- Speed: 16
- Rev Rate: 375
- Axis Tilt: 15
- Heavy Oil Ball: Virtual Gravity Invasion
- Medium Oil Ball: Reign of Fire Mutant Cell Pearl
- Light Oil Ball: Mars, Reign
- Preferred Company: Storm and Roto Grip
Finger pitches and spans
Just a general question about finger pitches. I understand that these pitches can change your roll. But as the older your get and loose flexibility, do you need to make pitch changes to be able to release the ball with less effort and have a more free release?
As I have noticed that a lot of the tournament bowlers are going to reverse pitch in both fingers. Then lengthening the span a little.
So just curious if these are good decisions.
As I have noticed that a lot of the tournament bowlers are going to reverse pitch in both fingers. Then lengthening the span a little.
So just curious if these are good decisions.
Re: Finger pitches and spans
where you go reverse you get more around the ball, increased axis tilt and rev rate. especially in the ring finger.
- kellytehuna
- Senior Member
- Posts: 2891
- Joined: January 18th, 2010, 11:11 pm
- THS Average: 195
- Positive Axis Point: 3.75", 1" up
- Speed: 18
- Rev Rate: 480
- Axis Tilt: 17
- Axis Rotation: 40
- Heavy Oil Ball: Morich DestroyR
- Medium Oil Ball: Morich Perpetual Motion
- Light Oil Ball: Morich Mojave
- Preferred Company: Morich
- Location: Hazard, KY
Re: Finger pitches and spans
Not true!
Increasing reverse (reducing forward pitch) reduces THAT fingers influence on the release, while reducing reverse pitch (increasing forward pitch) increases THAT fingers influence on the release.
Increasing reverse on the ring helps to get around the ball more at release, while increasing reverse on the middle helps stay up the back at the release point. If you increase reverse on one finger and reduce it in another, you exaggerate the overall effect a little more.
This is all performance fitting stuff and could be more completely covered by Mo. However, I suspect he would encourage you to attend the Advanced IBPSIA HOTS course so he could cover this topic more in depth and ensure you get the full scope of performance fitting.
Increasing reverse (reducing forward pitch) reduces THAT fingers influence on the release, while reducing reverse pitch (increasing forward pitch) increases THAT fingers influence on the release.
Increasing reverse on the ring helps to get around the ball more at release, while increasing reverse on the middle helps stay up the back at the release point. If you increase reverse on one finger and reduce it in another, you exaggerate the overall effect a little more.
This is all performance fitting stuff and could be more completely covered by Mo. However, I suspect he would encourage you to attend the Advanced IBPSIA HOTS course so he could cover this topic more in depth and ensure you get the full scope of performance fitting.
Father, Husband, Bowler, Web developer
15lb Morich DestroyR, Mania, Perpetual Motion, Craze, Frenzy, Mojave
15lb Radical Yeti
15lb Brunswick Slingshot, Avalanche Urethane
Highest score: 279
Highest series: 818
15lb Morich DestroyR, Mania, Perpetual Motion, Craze, Frenzy, Mojave
15lb Radical Yeti
15lb Brunswick Slingshot, Avalanche Urethane
Highest score: 279
Highest series: 818
-
- Member
- Posts: 35
- Joined: July 17th, 2010, 3:59 pm
- THS Average: 229
- Positive Axis Point: 5 1/4 up 3/8
- Speed: 16
- Rev Rate: 375
- Axis Tilt: 15
- Heavy Oil Ball: Virtual Gravity Invasion
- Medium Oil Ball: Reign of Fire Mutant Cell Pearl
- Light Oil Ball: Mars, Reign
- Preferred Company: Storm and Roto Grip
Re: Finger pitches and spans
Okay thanks for the replies.
But as a ball driller would you fit a bowler for that makes it the most comfortable grip because of the make up of his hand. Or would you performance fit looking for a particular roll ?
But as a ball driller would you fit a bowler for that makes it the most comfortable grip because of the make up of his hand. Or would you performance fit looking for a particular roll ?
- kellytehuna
- Senior Member
- Posts: 2891
- Joined: January 18th, 2010, 11:11 pm
- THS Average: 195
- Positive Axis Point: 3.75", 1" up
- Speed: 18
- Rev Rate: 480
- Axis Tilt: 17
- Axis Rotation: 40
- Heavy Oil Ball: Morich DestroyR
- Medium Oil Ball: Morich Perpetual Motion
- Light Oil Ball: Morich Mojave
- Preferred Company: Morich
- Location: Hazard, KY
Re: Finger pitches and spans
Ideally, you would do both. In the end, comfort is more important that creating a specific roll. It's no point drilling the ball if the customer can't roll it, right?Reign of Fire wrote:Okay thanks for the replies.
But as a ball driller would you fit a bowler for that makes it the most comfortable grip because of the make up of his hand. Or would you performance fit looking for a particular roll ?
Father, Husband, Bowler, Web developer
15lb Morich DestroyR, Mania, Perpetual Motion, Craze, Frenzy, Mojave
15lb Radical Yeti
15lb Brunswick Slingshot, Avalanche Urethane
Highest score: 279
Highest series: 818
15lb Morich DestroyR, Mania, Perpetual Motion, Craze, Frenzy, Mojave
15lb Radical Yeti
15lb Brunswick Slingshot, Avalanche Urethane
Highest score: 279
Highest series: 818
-
- Member
- Posts: 35
- Joined: July 17th, 2010, 3:59 pm
- THS Average: 229
- Positive Axis Point: 5 1/4 up 3/8
- Speed: 16
- Rev Rate: 375
- Axis Tilt: 15
- Heavy Oil Ball: Virtual Gravity Invasion
- Medium Oil Ball: Reign of Fire Mutant Cell Pearl
- Light Oil Ball: Mars, Reign
- Preferred Company: Storm and Roto Grip
Re: Finger pitches and spans
I agree that comfort is the priority.
I personally tried the performance fit about 7 years ago. Which it was okay. But the older that I get I feel like it is very hard to get out of the ball cleanly every time. Plus I do think with the performance fit that it is harder to get around the side of the ball.
With most lane conditions today it seems like there is either less oil or the balls are just stronger. So I feel like that it today's game it seems that you need more axis tilt and rotation. Especially when needing to go from left to right and go away from the pocket.
I personally tried the performance fit about 7 years ago. Which it was okay. But the older that I get I feel like it is very hard to get out of the ball cleanly every time. Plus I do think with the performance fit that it is harder to get around the side of the ball.
With most lane conditions today it seems like there is either less oil or the balls are just stronger. So I feel like that it today's game it seems that you need more axis tilt and rotation. Especially when needing to go from left to right and go away from the pocket.
Re: Finger pitches and spans
Well I say Mo should really answer this one as he is the most Knowledgable about it and I did know about that kungfu grip with your middle finger out and your ringer finger under. It makes you spin ball a lot for sure incresase tilt an such. But not comfortable for most. I have a found my shorter span to be the most comfort with my ring under and middle near zero.
- kellytehuna
- Senior Member
- Posts: 2891
- Joined: January 18th, 2010, 11:11 pm
- THS Average: 195
- Positive Axis Point: 3.75", 1" up
- Speed: 18
- Rev Rate: 480
- Axis Tilt: 17
- Axis Rotation: 40
- Heavy Oil Ball: Morich DestroyR
- Medium Oil Ball: Morich Perpetual Motion
- Light Oil Ball: Morich Mojave
- Preferred Company: Morich
- Location: Hazard, KY
Re: Finger pitches and spans
It sounds to me that with the changes in your hand that come with age (less flexibility) that you may have to shorten your spans some and like increase reverse just a little. That being said, I'm just guessing. LOL! Mo will be able to give you a more concise answer as to how to handle this issue.Reign of Fire wrote:I agree that comfort is the priority.
I personally tried the performance fit about 7 years ago. Which it was okay. But the older that I get I feel like it is very hard to get out of the ball cleanly every time. Plus I do think with the performance fit that it is harder to get around the side of the ball.
With most lane conditions today it seems like there is either less oil or the balls are just stronger. So I feel like that it today's game it seems that you need more axis tilt and rotation. Especially when needing to go from left to right and go away from the pocket.
I'm almost certain you'll be able recreate the same net effect, while maintaining comfort.
Father, Husband, Bowler, Web developer
15lb Morich DestroyR, Mania, Perpetual Motion, Craze, Frenzy, Mojave
15lb Radical Yeti
15lb Brunswick Slingshot, Avalanche Urethane
Highest score: 279
Highest series: 818
15lb Morich DestroyR, Mania, Perpetual Motion, Craze, Frenzy, Mojave
15lb Radical Yeti
15lb Brunswick Slingshot, Avalanche Urethane
Highest score: 279
Highest series: 818
- kellytehuna
- Senior Member
- Posts: 2891
- Joined: January 18th, 2010, 11:11 pm
- THS Average: 195
- Positive Axis Point: 3.75", 1" up
- Speed: 18
- Rev Rate: 480
- Axis Tilt: 17
- Axis Rotation: 40
- Heavy Oil Ball: Morich DestroyR
- Medium Oil Ball: Morich Perpetual Motion
- Light Oil Ball: Morich Mojave
- Preferred Company: Morich
- Location: Hazard, KY
Re: Finger pitches and spans
While I might not be able to give you a definitive answer, I know that the info I provided is accurate, because I have the "kung fu" grip (forward in the middle, reverse in the ring) as you put AND it was Mo that gave it to me.Bwill wrote:Well I say Mo should really answer this one as he is the most Knowledgable about it and I did know about that kungfu grip with your middle finger out and your ringer finger under. It makes you spin ball a lot for sure incresase tilt an such. But not comfortable for most. I have a found my shorter span to be the most comfort with my ring under and middle near zero.
The more reverse you have in a hole, the faster you clear that hole. The faster you clear a hole, the less time that finger has to influence the ball. Conversely, the more forward you have in a hole, the longer it takes to clear that hole. The slower you clear, the more time that finger has to influence the ball. Granted, the differences in time are fractions of a second, but its enough time to produce tangible outcomes.
I agree though. Mo could definitely give you a more accurate and complete answer.
Father, Husband, Bowler, Web developer
15lb Morich DestroyR, Mania, Perpetual Motion, Craze, Frenzy, Mojave
15lb Radical Yeti
15lb Brunswick Slingshot, Avalanche Urethane
Highest score: 279
Highest series: 818
15lb Morich DestroyR, Mania, Perpetual Motion, Craze, Frenzy, Mojave
15lb Radical Yeti
15lb Brunswick Slingshot, Avalanche Urethane
Highest score: 279
Highest series: 818
- Mo Pinel
- Rest In Peace
- Posts: 10054
- Joined: January 26th, 2010, 6:10 pm
- Preferred Company: MoRich, & now RADICAL BT
- Location: Richmond, VA
Re: Finger pitches and spans
It works like this. You fit the hand to get a good, comfortable base grip. After the bowler uses the ball for a while, you measure his ball speed, rev rate, AR and AT. If you want to then alter those measurements, now you do the performance adjustments. ALL PERFORMANCE ADJUSTMENTS MUST BE MADE OFF A GOOD BASE FIT!Reign of Fire wrote:Okay thanks for the replies.
But as a ball driller would you fit a bowler for that makes it the most comfortable grip because of the make up of his hand. Or would you performance fit looking for a particular roll ?
Rest In Peace (1942-2021)
-
- Member
- Posts: 35
- Joined: July 17th, 2010, 3:59 pm
- THS Average: 229
- Positive Axis Point: 5 1/4 up 3/8
- Speed: 16
- Rev Rate: 375
- Axis Tilt: 15
- Heavy Oil Ball: Virtual Gravity Invasion
- Medium Oil Ball: Reign of Fire Mutant Cell Pearl
- Light Oil Ball: Mars, Reign
- Preferred Company: Storm and Roto Grip
Re: Finger pitches and spans
Thanks Mo for the reply. It all makes sense. Just trying to get comfort and a good roll that will be able to play on all lane conditions. Most of all just want to muscle free at the bottom of the swing.
- Mo Pinel
- Rest In Peace
- Posts: 10054
- Joined: January 26th, 2010, 6:10 pm
- Preferred Company: MoRich, & now RADICAL BT
- Location: Richmond, VA
Re: Finger pitches and spans
Reign of Fire wrote:Thanks Mo for the reply. It all makes sense. Just trying to get comfort and a good roll that will be able to play on all lane conditions. Most of all just want to muscle free at the bottom of the swing.
Good plan. Excessive grip pressure is the enemy of shotmaking!
Rest In Peace (1942-2021)