Board index » General Forums » The Pro Shop




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Abralon vs. Siaair
 Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 3:48 pm Post Number: #1 Post
Offline
Member

Joined: September 18, 2010
Posts: 123
Location: Nerviano -Italy
Reputation: 6
Reputation Power: 1
Hi there,
my question is: Has anybody experienced difference in reaction of same ball, finished with same grit but different abrasive product.
I mean, for example, same ball but A) surface Siaair 2000 B) surface Abralon 2000.
Any difference in total hook or /and backend reaction?
Thanks for any comment


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Abralon vs. Siaair
 Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 4:11 pm Post Number: #2 Post
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: June 25, 2009
Posts: 243
Location: Dekalb, IL
Reputation: 11
Reputation Power: 1
The pads are rated off the same scale and as far as I can tell there is no difference between an abralon or a siaair finish.

I have noticed that the siaair pads last longer, but they are harder to find as good of a price as abralon which can be found at $3 a pad.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Abralon vs. Siaair
 Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 3:08 am Post Number: #3 Post
Offline
Member

Joined: May 25, 2011
Posts: 133
Location: Seoul, ROK
Reputation: 0
Reputation Power: 1
magicmike wrote:
I have noticed that the siaair pads last longer, but they are harder to find as good of a price as abralon which can be found at $3 a pad.


Where can I get Abralon pads for $3/pad?


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Abralon vs. Siaair
 Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 3:45 am Post Number: #4 Post
Offline
BCU Graduate Layouts
User avatar

Joined: June 5, 2010
Posts: 517
Reputation: 34
Reputation Power: 1
Siaair pads last for 20 balls - Abralon last for 10 balls. From our distributor the Siaair are about $1.50 per 3 pack more than Abralon 3 pack.

_________________
17 MPH @ arrows
300 RPM
AR 50-55
AT 13
PAP 5 1/4" x 1/4"


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Abralon vs. Siaair
 Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 3:48 am Post Number: #5 Post
Offline
Trusted Source
User avatar

Joined: January 25, 2010
Posts: 191
Location: Festival Ranch, Arizona
Reputation: 126
Reputation Power: 2
Regarding abrasive grades, there is no practical difference between Abralon and Siaair when new. Both use European FEPA grading, not U.S. ANSI/CAMI grading. Mirka, an industrial abrasives company headquartered in Finland, manufactures Abralon, Abranet, Autonet and Mirlon abrasive pads. SIA (Swiss Industrial Abrasives) manufactures Siaair Velvet Pads as well as Wurth industrial abrasive pads.

Abralon uses silicon carbide as its abrasive (very hard but brittle) while Siaair (along with Abranet) uses more conventional aluminum oxide as the abrasive. Your Pro Shop owner/operator likely uses either Abralon or Siaair, perhaps both. Some pro shops report longer life using Siaair. That is consistent with my experience. I seem to get about 50% more effective life from the aluminum oxide pads (Siaair and Abranet) as compared to the silicon carbide pads (Abralon).

Non-woven scuff pads manufactured by 3M and Mirka are also widely used. These use ANSI/CAMI grading; not FEPA grading. There are conversion tables available to compare different abrasive grading systems: ANSI/CAMI, FEPA, JIS, and micron. Industrial sandpapers, usually ANSI/CAMI graded, utilize aluminum oxide abrasives and have been widely used for decades. Use of aluminum oxide sandpapers, particilarly for coarse resurfacing, are more cost effective than the more recently available Abralon/Siaair/Wurth foam-backed pads.

You can extend the life of your Abralon pads by reducing the pressure you put on the pad against the ball. The Abralon uses sharp but brittle silicon carbide. Use it to "scratch the surface" of the ball. The aluminum oxide surface of the Siiair/Abranet pad is softer with a more ductile particle. It is not as likely to break when you "lean on it" but, like the silicon carbide pad, you can substantially increase the life of the pad by moderating the pressure. Wet sand, use the spray bottle liberally to keep the ball and pad lubricated, and "scratch" the surface. If you are leaning into the pad with the heel of your palm, you're using too much pressure. Try using even pressure with your entire hand with emphasis on the pads of your fingers instead of the heel of your hand. (This is easier on your carpal tunnels, too.) Sanding gloves/mitts also work well to equalize pressure over the entire surface of the pad/ball.

Wurth pads are generally cheaper, pricewise, than the similar Siiair pads. Both use aluminum oxide as their abrasive. Both are available as foam-backed 6" pads.

Joest Superpads (from Germany) are similar to Mirka's Abralon. Both use silicon carbide as their abrasive. Some of the Superpads are available in 6" diameters (320-grit, 600-grit, 1200-grit, 1800-grit and 2500-grit) at a cost that is ~ $0.50 less expensive than Abralon per pad. Superpads are also available in 5" diameter pads in a much wider assortment of grits (220, 320, 800, 1200, 1500, 1800, 2000, 2500 and 3000-grit by FEPA rating) and are ~ $1.25 cheaper per pad than Abralon. There are also some no-name "bargain" pads available in both aluminum oxide and silicon carbide but you get what you pay for: thinner foam backing, shorter pad life, etc.

All the best to you and the sport of bowling!


Last edited by jbungard on Sat May 28, 2011 4:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Abralon vs. Siaair
 Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 4:24 am Post Number: #6 Post
Online
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: April 26, 2007
Posts: 2954
Location: Malta, NY
Reputation: 541
Reputation Power: 6
jbungard wrote:
Regarding abrasive grades, there is no practical difference between Abralon and Siaair when new. Both use European FEPA grading, not U.S. ANSI/CAMI grading. Mirka, an industrial abrasives company headquartered in Finland, manufactures Abralon, Abranet, Autonet and Mirlon abrasive pads. SIA (Swiss Industrial Abrasives) manufactures Siaair Velvet Pads as well as Wurth industrial abrasive pads.

Abralon uses silicon carbide as its abrasive (very hard but brittle) while Siaair (along with Abranet) uses more conventional aluminum oxide as the abrasive. Your Pro Shop owner/operator likely uses either Abralon or Siaair, perhaps both. Some pro shops report longer life using Siaair. That is consistent with my experience. I seem to get about 50% more effective life from the aluminum oxide pads (Siaair and Abranet) as compared to the silicon carbide pads (Abralon).

Non-woven scuff pads manufactured by 3M and Mirka are also widely used. These use ANSI/CAMI grading; not FEPA grading. There are conversion tables available to compare different abrasive grading systems: ANSI/CAMI, FEPA, JIS, and micron. Industrial sandpapers, usually ANSI/CAMI graded, utilize aluminum oxide abrasives and have been widely used for decades. Use of aluminum oxide sandpapers, particilarly for coarse resurfacing, are more cost effective than the more recently available Abralon/Siaair/Wurth foam-backed pads.

You can extend the life of your Abralon pads by reducing the pressure you put on the pad against the ball. The Abralon uses sharp but brittle silicon carbide. Use it to "scratch the surface" of the ball. The aluminum oxide surface of the Siiair/Abranet pad is softer with a more ductile particle. It is not as likely to break when you "lean on it" but, like the silicon carbide pad, you can substantially increase the life of the pad by moderating the pressure. Wet sand, use the spray bottle liberally to keep the ball and pad lubricated, and "scratch" the surface. If you are leaning into the pad with the heel of your palm, you're using too much pressure. Try using even pressure with your entire hand with emphasis on the pads of your fingers instead of the heel of your hand. (This is easier on your carpal tunnels, too.) Sanding gloves/mitts also work well to equalize pressure over the entire surface of the pad/ball.

All the best to you and the sport of bowling!


Jim, as usual, you're above and beyond.
I'd like to put some of these details on the wiki under surface modifications if you're OK with that.

-Eric

_________________
"Its all about the roll."
Press the Image button if you feel I've been helpful.
Help us pay our hosting fees, donate today!
Image


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Abralon vs. Siaair
 Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 4:56 am Post Number: #7 Post
Offline
Trusted Source
User avatar

Joined: January 25, 2010
Posts: 191
Location: Festival Ranch, Arizona
Reputation: 126
Reputation Power: 2
I have no problem with that Eric,

Anything to help increase the knowledge. I certainly have benefitted from all of the knowledge shared here from Mo, Joe, John, Paul, Jim M., Gary, MiT, Kelly and many others.

I added another couple of paragraphs about alternatives to Mirka and SIA.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Abralon vs. Siaair
 Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 12:09 pm Post Number: #8 Post
Offline
Member

Joined: September 18, 2010
Posts: 123
Location: Nerviano -Italy
Reputation: 6
Reputation Power: 1
jbungard wrote:
Regarding abrasive grades, there is no practical difference between Abralon and Siaair when new. Both use European FEPA grading, not U.S. ANSI/CAMI grading. Mirka, an industrial abrasives company headquartered in Finland, manufactures Abralon, Abranet, Autonet and Mirlon abrasive pads. SIA (Swiss Industrial Abrasives) manufactures Siaair Velvet Pads as well as Wurth industrial abrasive pads.

Abralon uses silicon carbide as its abrasive (very hard but brittle) while Siaair (along with Abranet) uses more conventional aluminum oxide as the abrasive. Your Pro Shop owner/operator likely uses either Abralon or Siaair, perhaps both. Some pro shops report longer life using Siaair. That is consistent with my experience. I seem to get about 50% more effective life from the aluminum oxide pads (Siaair and Abranet) as compared to the silicon carbide pads (Abralon).

Non-woven scuff pads manufactured by 3M and Mirka are also widely used. These use ANSI/CAMI grading; not FEPA grading. There are conversion tables available to compare different abrasive grading systems: ANSI/CAMI, FEPA, JIS, and micron. Industrial sandpapers, usually ANSI/CAMI graded, utilize aluminum oxide abrasives and have been widely used for decades. Use of aluminum oxide sandpapers, particilarly for coarse resurfacing, are more cost effective than the more recently available Abralon/Siaair/Wurth foam-backed pads.

You can extend the life of your Abralon pads by reducing the pressure you put on the pad against the ball. The Abralon uses sharp but brittle silicon carbide. Use it to "scratch the surface" of the ball. The aluminum oxide surface of the Siiair/Abranet pad is softer with a more ductile particle. It is not as likely to break when you "lean on it" but, like the silicon carbide pad, you can substantially increase the life of the pad by moderating the pressure. Wet sand, use the spray bottle liberally to keep the ball and pad lubricated, and "scratch" the surface. If you are leaning into the pad with the heel of your palm, you're using too much pressure. Try using even pressure with your entire hand with emphasis on the pads of your fingers instead of the heel of your hand. (This is easier on your carpal tunnels, too.) Sanding gloves/mitts also work well to equalize pressure over the entire surface of the pad/ball.

Wurth pads are generally cheaper, pricewise, than the similar Siiair pads. Both use aluminum oxide as their abrasive. Both are available as foam-backed 6" pads.

Joest Superpads (from Germany) are similar to Mirka's Abralon. Both use silicon carbide as their abrasive. Some of the Superpads are available in 6" diameters (320-grit, 600-grit, 1200-grit, 1800-grit and 2500-grit) at a cost that is ~ $0.50 less expensive than Abralon per pad. Superpads are also available in 5" diameter pads in a much wider assortment of grits (220, 320, 800, 1200, 1500, 1800, 2000, 2500 and 3000-grit by FEPA rating) and are ~ $1.25 cheaper per pad than Abralon. There are also some no-name "bargain" pads available in both aluminum oxide and silicon carbide but you get what you pay for: thinner foam backing, shorter pad life, etc.

All the best to you and the sport of bowling!


So why some bowlers say a Abralon-treated ball shows more backend reaction than
Siaair-treated ball ( same grit of course).
This puzzling me a lot.......


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Abralon vs. Siaair
 Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 2:52 pm Post Number: #9 Post
Offline
Mo Pinel
User avatar

Joined: January 26, 2010
Posts: 9458
Reputation: 543
Reputation Power: 6
clatara wrote:
jbungard wrote:
Regarding abrasive grades, there is no practical difference between Abralon and Siaair when new. Both use European FEPA grading, not U.S. ANSI/CAMI grading. Mirka, an industrial abrasives company headquartered in Finland, manufactures Abralon, Abranet, Autonet and Mirlon abrasive pads. SIA (Swiss Industrial Abrasives) manufactures Siaair Velvet Pads as well as Wurth industrial abrasive pads.

Abralon uses silicon carbide as its abrasive (very hard but brittle) while Siaair (along with Abranet) uses more conventional aluminum oxide as the abrasive. Your Pro Shop owner/operator likely uses either Abralon or Siaair, perhaps both. Some pro shops report longer life using Siaair. That is consistent with my experience. I seem to get about 50% more effective life from the aluminum oxide pads (Siaair and Abranet) as compared to the silicon carbide pads (Abralon).

Non-woven scuff pads manufactured by 3M and Mirka are also widely used. These use ANSI/CAMI grading; not FEPA grading. There are conversion tables available to compare different abrasive grading systems: ANSI/CAMI, FEPA, JIS, and micron. Industrial sandpapers, usually ANSI/CAMI graded, utilize aluminum oxide abrasives and have been widely used for decades. Use of aluminum oxide sandpapers, particilarly for coarse resurfacing, are more cost effective than the more recently available Abralon/Siaair/Wurth foam-backed pads.

You can extend the life of your Abralon pads by reducing the pressure you put on the pad against the ball. The Abralon uses sharp but brittle silicon carbide. Use it to "scratch the surface" of the ball. The aluminum oxide surface of the Siiair/Abranet pad is softer with a more ductile particle. It is not as likely to break when you "lean on it" but, like the silicon carbide pad, you can substantially increase the life of the pad by moderating the pressure. Wet sand, use the spray bottle liberally to keep the ball and pad lubricated, and "scratch" the surface. If you are leaning into the pad with the heel of your palm, you're using too much pressure. Try using even pressure with your entire hand with emphasis on the pads of your fingers instead of the heel of your hand. (This is easier on your carpal tunnels, too.) Sanding gloves/mitts also work well to equalize pressure over the entire surface of the pad/ball.

Wurth pads are generally cheaper, pricewise, than the similar Siiair pads. Both use aluminum oxide as their abrasive. Both are available as foam-backed 6" pads.

Joest Superpads (from Germany) are similar to Mirka's Abralon. Both use silicon carbide as their abrasive. Some of the Superpads are available in 6" diameters (320-grit, 600-grit, 1200-grit, 1800-grit and 2500-grit) at a cost that is ~ $0.50 less expensive than Abralon per pad. Superpads are also available in 5" diameter pads in a much wider assortment of grits (220, 320, 800, 1200, 1500, 1800, 2000, 2500 and 3000-grit by FEPA rating) and are ~ $1.25 cheaper per pad than Abralon. There are also some no-name "bargain" pads available in both aluminum oxide and silicon carbide but you get what you pay for: thinner foam backing, shorter pad life, etc.

All the best to you and the sport of bowling!


So why some bowlers say a Abralon-treated ball shows more backend reaction than
Siaair-treated ball ( same grit of course).
This puzzling me a lot.......


Puzzling to me, too. It's not the case. Bowlers like to talk even if they don't know what there talking about. A very common practice.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Abralon vs. Siaair
 Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 4:16 pm Post Number: #10 Post
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: June 25, 2009
Posts: 243
Location: Dekalb, IL
Reputation: 11
Reputation Power: 1
Here is the link for the abralon pads for those interested http://www.abglovesandabrasives.com/ser ... %22/Detail


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Abralon vs. Siaair
 Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 4:42 pm Post Number: #11 Post
Offline
Member

Joined: September 18, 2010
Posts: 123
Location: Nerviano -Italy
Reputation: 6
Reputation Power: 1
Mo, may be I have the solution
months ago , at an Int'l tournament in Rome during qualification Sean Rash was scuffing before every shot the ball with a Abralon pad ( grit unknown).
Many italian bowlers saw that and now they positively want the red-back pad and not the gray-back pad.
Curiously in a different squad an italian bowler started to scuff in the final 2 games his ball with Scotch Brite. A Saudi Arabian bowler in same pairs complained terrificly with organisation saying that " he was not allowed to use abrasive during play".
Odd enough nobody dared to go and tell Rash he was not allowed too.
By the way ..... the italian managed to score 514 in two final games and got the final, the Saudi Arabian didn't.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Abralon vs. Siaair
 Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 4:51 am Post Number: #12 Post
Online
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: April 26, 2007
Posts: 2954
Location: Malta, NY
Reputation: 541
Reputation Power: 6
Jim,

I've added your information to the surface modification article, thanks for your expertise.
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index.php?title=Surface_Modification

-Eric

_________________
"Its all about the roll."
Press the Image button if you feel I've been helpful.
Help us pay our hosting fees, donate today!
Image


Top 
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 

Board index » General Forums » The Pro Shop


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

 
 

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: