Bowling Ball Surfaces

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Bowling Ball Surfaces

Post by Glenn » March 1st, 2020, 11:02 pm

I have a question, or two, for the pro shop guys that have a ball surface scanner.
This may seem a little nerdy, so go easy on me. :D
Have you noticed any appreciable difference in surface grit on bowling balls with different colors/swirls (different materials)?

I have a ball that I have never liked. It has had more than a few different layouts with no improvement.
I have changed surfaces (or so I thought) with no luck.
The ball just does not perform in my hands -- seems inconsistent and "lazy".

Second question: how long do you make changes to a dud ball before you throw it away?

I decided to fiddle with it some more before I throw it out.
I had a new 3000-grit pad, and a couple of slightly used 2000-grits pads, that I wanted to use to take this ball to 3000-grit surface.
I sanded the ball 4-ways lightly with the new 3000-grit pad, and figured it would be close to 3000 grit -- wrong!
When I took it in to have it scanned, it read 4000-5000 grit!? And, if you move this handheld scanner around the ball surface, it would display different values depending on what swirls were crossed. So, I used the 2000-grit pad, and no change in surface (still 4000-5000)?
Armed with this new information, I took the ball to the spinner and took a rough Scotch-Brite pad to it.
I finally got that ball to abrade down to about 3000 grit with some variation across the swirls, and will see whether actually getting a rougher surface on it makes any difference in its performance. I suspicion that me not getting the surface I thought may make the difference in this ball.

I checked a couple of swirled hybrid balls and they show the same traits while solid-color balls seem to have a consistent grit across the entire ball.
I wonder what effect these swirls of differing grit have on ball performance when your track goes across some of these swirls.

Thots?

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Re: Bowling Ball Surfaces

Post by MegaMav » March 2nd, 2020, 1:08 am

I do surface by hand.
More direct pressure, more true finish to the intent of the abrasive.
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Re: Bowling Ball Surfaces

Post by Glenn » March 2nd, 2020, 2:01 am

Mav,

I will admit that I seldom surface by hand except when I need a touch up lane-side. At home, I always use the spinner.
Next time I get access to a scanner, I will take the dud ball, sand it by hand, and see what results I get - could be interesting.
I was reading the literature that said that it is harder to get the surface you want than you think - certainly is/was in my case.
Who knew?

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Re: Bowling Ball Surfaces

Post by GrumpyCatFace » March 2nd, 2020, 4:22 am

Are you sanding it wet or dry? I’ve seen a lot of information stating that a wet pad does next to nothing.

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Re: Bowling Ball Surfaces

Post by bowl1820 » March 2nd, 2020, 5:15 am

GrumpyCatFace wrote:
March 2nd, 2020, 4:22 am
Are you sanding it wet or dry? I’ve seen a lot of information stating that a wet pad does next to nothing.
It's not that wet sanding does next to nothing, It just produces a different type of result.

Wet vs Dry Sanding
1wetvsdry.jpg
This ball was sanded with the same grit, left-dry sanded, right-wet sanded.

Wet sanding produces a smoother, more sheen like finish, water acts as a lubricant to a point so the cutting isn't as aggressive.

Also wet sanding helps keep the dust and friction heat down, the water also helps reduce buildup of the cuttings in your pad/paper which let's them cut better and last longer.

Dry sanding is on the other hand a bit more aggressive and will give you a duller surface. But you get more friction which generates more heat and the pad can load up which which will reduce the effectiveness of the cutting.

Something to note also is if you use too much pressure on the pad/paper/etc. it loses it's effectiveness and won't cut properly, It doesn't make it cut coarser.

Also on a spinner what hand you hold your abrasive in vs what direction the ball is spinning makes a difference in the result.

Example: My spinner turns counter clockwise.

If you hold the pad in your left hand, the ball is turning into your palm, (into the pad), This produces a coarser cut because it cause a firmer pressure against the ball.

If you hold the pad in your right hand, the ball is turning out of your palm, (out of the pad), This produces a finer cut because it causes a lighter pressure of the pad against the ball.

One other thing the top of the ball will sand faster/moree than the side, giving the top a coarser texture than the side. So you need to do the side slightly longer than the top so the sanding is consistent across the surface of the ball.
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Re: Bowling Ball Surfaces

Post by Glenn » March 2nd, 2020, 1:40 pm

Bowl1820,

Some additional thoughts:

Probably another thing affecting my results on the spinner is that I have a one-speed spinner. A two-speed spinner might do a better job of sanding to the desired grit at the lower speed, and polish at the higher speed. I would love to try a speed control on the spinner motor, but I am afraid it might damage the motor. I asked the manufacturer that question but never got an answer back.

I read that large jumps in grits rather than factors of two (like skip-a-grit, eg 500/4000) can result in excessive clogging of the pads (reduce pad life), and produce inconsistent results … though perhaps desirable in some cases.

I never thought about spinner rotation direction and right- or left-handedness. When I do a complete resurface, I use one of those Smart Star tools (hand held not drill) on the spinner which might take this point out of the equation(?).

Regarding wet vs dry, I assume that the ball will abrade less wet (matte) than when sanded dry (dull), but by how much? If dry @ 3000, will wet be 3500 or 4000 or ?

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Re: Bowling Ball Surfaces

Post by 44boyd » March 2nd, 2020, 3:26 pm

I don’t get the obsession with trying to get exact numbers. Have pads with you at the alley and adjust as necessary
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Re: Bowling Ball Surfaces

Post by bowl1820 » March 2nd, 2020, 4:05 pm

Glenn wrote:
March 2nd, 2020, 1:40 pm
Bowl1820,

Some additional thoughts:

Probably another thing affecting my results on the spinner is that I have a one-speed spinner. A two-speed spinner might do a better job of sanding to the desired grit at the lower speed, and polish at the higher speed. I would love to try a speed control on the spinner motor, but I am afraid it might damage the motor. I asked the manufacturer that question but never got an answer back.
You don't really need a dual speed spinner, A single speed is basically the "low" speed to begin with.

Here's a quote from Ballspinner (who is John Jameson and is the President of Innovative)

Question:what is the need or purpose for a dual speed ball spinner?
I get asked this question often. A dual speed spinner is great for high volume pro shops. A single speed spinner will do the job just as good as a dual speed it just takes a little longer to finish the ball.

A dual speed spinner actual sands the ball faster at the low speed. Many people get this confused thinking the higher speed polishes the ball "better" while it is actually the low speed that sands the ball faster. Using a heavier grit at a higher speed, the ball does not cut as easily.

The finished product will be the same on either machine. If you are a high volume shop with a line of customers and limited time before league starts go with the 2 speed otherwise a single speed will work just fine.


I read that large jumps in grits rather than factors of two (like skip-a-grit, eg 500/4000) can result in excessive clogging of the pads (reduce pad life), and produce inconsistent results … though perhaps desirable in some cases.
Originally when you sanded a ball, When you stepped up through the grits. You weren't supposed to go more than double what the previous grit was.

Example: If you started at 80 next would be 120 then 180, 220, 320, 400, 600, 1200
(Note these are in US ANSI/CAMI scale not Fepa P-scale that abralons use. for reference 1200 US is about 9 microns which is about a P2000 pad +/- some)

The reason you did this was so the balls final surface grit was closest to whatever the final grit you used was.

Now if you were going to a lower grit you just went straight to that grit, Example if your ball was at 1200 and you wanted a 400 surface you just sanded with 400 grit.

Then Skip-a-Grit came along, which used skipping a grit and usually with a light pressure on the final grit (Example: 240/light 800) trying to achieve scratches of alternating depths not particularly a specific surface grit number.

As for it causing excessive clogging of the pad, I haven't particularly seen that or read about that being a big problem. But if you are using a fine pad/paper on a coarser surface the finer pad/paper will wear faster. (think of it like rubbing coarse sandpaper against fine sandpaper, the fine will wear out first)

I never thought about spinner rotation direction and right- or left-handedness. When I do a complete resurface, I use one of those Smart Star tools (hand held not drill) on the spinner which might take this point out of the equation(?).
The SmartStar tool are like C.A.B's (Contour Abrasion Block) which is what I use. They are good in that they help apply the pressure more evenly than your hand does and over a little more area, Plus they help prevent getting flat spots around the holes.

The principle still applies though, It's just not as pronounced and it does kind of make the feel of left or right feel more the same as far as pressure goes.

Regarding wet vs dry, I assume that the ball will abrade less wet (matte) than when sanded dry (dull), but by how much? If dry @ 3000, will wet be 3500 or 4000 or ?
As for that IDK, But I think there wouldn't be a specific amount because of the variables . Everybody doesn't sand exactly the same, more pressure vs less, more water vs less, Different pads, papers etc. etc.
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Re: Bowling Ball Surfaces

Post by bowl1820 » March 2nd, 2020, 4:14 pm

44boyd wrote:
March 2nd, 2020, 3:26 pm
I don’t get the obsession with trying to get exact numbers. Have pads with you at the alley and adjust as necessary
That's pretty true! Trying to hit exact numbers is basically a waste of time, even if you sitting there with a surface scanner. If the surface grit is off slightly +/- X amount most people will not notice it. A computer might but people are not machines.

The main thing is just being consistent about how you sand, so you have consistent results.
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Re: Bowling Ball Surfaces

Post by 44boyd » March 2nd, 2020, 4:54 pm

I agree wholeheartedly, get yourself a starting point and adjust for the lanes you’re playing
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Re: Bowling Ball Surfaces

Post by Glenn » March 2nd, 2020, 11:57 pm

Guys, interesting conversation!

For me, if I had a ball surface scanner handy all the time, I think its main use would be to measure a ball that I just used in tournament or league that was gang-busters. I would want to know what surface made it perform so well - and guarantee that I can repeat it. I believe repeatability is the name of the game. Difficult to do when Abralon pads cut differently than SaiAir pads that cut differently than CtD pads plus the human factor. I can see using a scanner to determine if I can achieve the result I want, and then test my repeatability. If I get inconsistent results because of my technique and then apply adjustments to that somewhat unknown surface, I really have no base line. The best I can do is to take fresh pads to achieve the surface I think I want (or maybe close), then adjust it when I get to the lanes, and freshen the surface when I get home. Bowlers have about three choices: 1) let the ball settle in to the lane shine surface, 2) run over and throw it in the polishing machine, 3) make it dull or shiny as needed, or 4) pay the proshop to put a little surface or polish on it (whatever that means).

I do not disagree with Stacy's position, and I know that the better bowlers on more challenging conditions all carry a stack of pads in their bags for lane side adjustments - not so much for your typical league bowler playing the same THC week-after-week. I just find it interesting that we spend a good deal of time worrying about putting very specific layouts on bowling balls when the layout is about 10% of ball performance, but are ok with close enough on ball surfaces that make up about 55% of ball performance. But is doing a better job on surface worth the price of admission? Equipment such as ball scanners and DeTerminators are not something the average bowler is likely to own; spinners and pads are.

Anyway, I learned some things on this thread, and it is back to the drawing board on how I go about resurfacing my equipment.

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Re: Bowling Ball Surfaces

Post by bowl1820 » March 3rd, 2020, 1:26 am

Glenn wrote:
March 2nd, 2020, 11:57 pm
Guys, interesting conversation!
For me, if I had a ball surface scanner handy all the time, I think its main use would be to measure a ball that I just used in tournament or league that was gang-busters. I would want to know what surface made it perform so well - and guarantee that I can repeat it.
The problem with that idea is, the surface on the ball at the end of bowling is not what it started out as. Your ball surface texture changes very fast as you bowl.

You should look up Radicals Perception vs. Reality video where they show just how fast a balls surface changes during bowling.

Also look at this article Surface Management: What’s Your Number? An analysis of coverstock surface finish and wear
https://www.bowlingthismonth.com/bowlin ... ur-number/

Also the surface texture you used then isn't necessarily the texture you'll need next time.

I believe repeatability is the name of the game.
YES
Bowlers have about three choices:
1) let the ball settle in to the lane shine surface, Some use that option.

2) run over and throw it in the polishing machine. Other than to maybe shine your plastic spare ball, There's almost no good reason to use the polishing (Lustre King type) machine at the lanes. It will just mess the surface up, plugging the pores.

3) make it dull or shiny as needed, Which is what most do. That's why most bring pads with them, so they can adjust surfaces during warmup/practice to matchup to the lanes. Watch this video by ron hickland everybody is sanding right before they bowl.




4) pay the proshop to put a little surface or polish on it (whatever that means).
I do not disagree with Stacy's position, and I know that the better bowlers on more challenging conditions all carry a stack of pads in their bags for lane side adjustments - not so much for your typical league bowler playing the same THC week-after-week.
You'd be surprised how many ordinary league bowlers tweak the ball surface just before start and it's something more should do! it's not just for the "better bowlers" in fact if you do it helps you become one of the better bowlers.

I just find it interesting that we spend a good deal of time worrying about putting very specific layouts on bowling balls when the layout is about 10% of ball performance, but are ok with close enough on ball surfaces that make up about 55% of ball performance.


The thing with layouts is you can't easily change it, so you should get it right the first time.

Surface on the other hand you can change it almost instantly and as many times as you want to dial in the reaction you want.

And close enough for the most part is just that close enough, You don't need to be ultra precise (Like saying I need a surface grit of exactly 2982.99987) a little bit +/- of that number isn't going to make a real world difference.
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Re: Bowling Ball Surfaces

Post by GrumpyCatFace » March 3rd, 2020, 6:16 am

For me, hitting something close to a ‘number’ would help eliminate one more variable from the game. We’re already playing on an invisible set of conditions, and every shift in balance/release can change the result. I don’t even want to try and think about another ‘unknown’ in a 3-game set.

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Re: Bowling Ball Surfaces

Post by Glenn » March 3rd, 2020, 2:01 pm

Gonna try my quote skills here - LOL.
The problem with that idea is, the surface on the ball at the end of bowling is not what it started out as. Your ball surface texture changes very fast as you bowl.
Exactly, and that is why I can see the value of knowing what the surface was when the ball performed well (beginning or end) so that I would know where to start and if that surface might be best near the beginning or end of the set.
2) run over and throw it in the polishing machine. Other than to maybe shine your plastic spare ball, There's almost no good reason to use the polishing (Lustre King type) machine at the lanes. It will just mess the surface up, plugging the pores.
I totally agree, and yet I see bowlers throwing their performance balls in these machine routinely. At one point, the lane man at one of the center near here was promoting the use of them. The other center near me quietly removed those machines. I contacted Brunswick about the Ultra Buff blocks, and was told they give a 5000-6000 grit surface depending on how long you buff, how well the machine is maintained (within specs), the coverstock material, etc. Everything I read says that waxy finish is rubbed off by the end of the first game.
You'd be surprised how many ordinary league bowlers tweak the ball surface just before start and it's something more should do! it's not just for the "better bowlers" in fact if you do it helps you become one of the better bowlers.
LOL! Yes, I would as I never see any league bowlers prep their equipment during practice. Occasionally, one bowler will quickly run into the pro shop and have them add a little surface, and then just go with the ball. There are some that clean their bowling balls at the start of practice rather that at the end of the game (guarantees that the oil soaks in really good).
The thing with layouts is you can't easily change it, so you should get it right the first time.
Ouch, a very good point! I guess I follow the opinion that the below 200 average bowler just doesn't benefit from more than a basic layout drilled according to his specs.
Surface on the other hand you can change it almost instantly and as many times as you want to dial in the reaction you want.
Yep, absolutely no doubt.
And close enough for the most part is just that close enough, You don't need to be ultra precise (Like saying I need a surface grit of exactly 2982.99987) a little bit +/- of that number isn't going to make a real world difference.
I guess I was not talking about that much precision - LOL! I was thinking that surface grit accuracy +/- 1000-grit would be worth knowing, and that much variation might have some impact on ball performance. I have one ball that will play a set of lanes shiny one week and duller the next, but might not score well until the lanes settle down in the third game. Well, what was that surface? Should I start out with a fresh ball about 1000-2000 grit duller for the first game knowing that it will change to 4000-4500 grit by the third game - assuming that it is a very playable ball?
For me, hitting something close to a ‘number’ would help eliminate one more variable from the game. We’re already playing on an invisible set of conditions, and every shift in balance/release can change the result. I don’t even want to try and think about another ‘unknown’ in a 3-game set.
GCF, another voice crying in the wilderness - LOL. You are a man after my own heart. It is kinda like just running with the flow of traffic while ignoring the speedometer (and being the one getting the ticket). I like to know where things are, and I have discovered I really do a bad job of consistent bowling ball resurfacing, and feel like my efforts are hit-and-miss. Higher grit bowling balls are not gonna change much as quickly. It is those rougher grits that are a moving target.

My strategy, if you want to call it that, is to get the ball spec sheet on every new ball I own. The Radical Mission statement indicates that their bowling balls are/were generally designed for league bowlers on house conditions; that includes surface recommendation. I take the tech sheet and review the suggested surface. If it is a compound or polish finish, I "crack" it with a 4000-grit pad; that becomes my baseline. For any other surface recommendation, I use it as my baseline. If that baseline surface does not fit with the ball motion characteristic, I try to reconcile the difference by seeing how it plays on a fresh lane over time (at the baseline and then the alternative). For example, if the baseline is 500/4000 and the ball motion is continuous where I would consider 2000-3000 (3000 is my sweet spot), I would decide which one works best on fresh conditions where I play. Having settled that for myself, I would make adjustments from my baseline for the conditions I see during practice before the games begin.

Who do I blame for getting me interested in bowling??

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Re: Bowling Ball Surfaces

Post by TheJesus » October 2nd, 2020, 12:32 pm

bowl1820 wrote:
March 2nd, 2020, 5:15 am
Something to note also is if you use too much pressure on the pad/paper/etc. it loses it's effectiveness and won't cut properly, It doesn't make it cut coarser.
Are you talking about spinner or by hand ?
bowl1820 wrote:
March 2nd, 2020, 5:15 am
Also on a spinner what hand you hold your abrasive in vs what direction the ball is spinning makes a difference in the result.If you hold the pad in your left hand, the ball is turning into your palm, (into the pad), This produces a coarser cut because it cause a firmer pressure against the ball.If you hold the pad in your right hand, the ball is turning out of your palm, (out of the pad), This produces a finer cut because it causes a lighter pressure of the pad against the ball.
Why would the direction cause a firmer pressure? The only way i can think of for that, is if the pad or sandpaper in question, has its "peaks" all looking into one specific direction, which they don't. Your hand stays immobile both ways, so pressure should be the same.
bowl1820 wrote:
March 2nd, 2020, 5:15 am
One other thing the top of the ball will sand faster/more than the side, giving the top a coarser texture than the side. So you need to do the side slightly longer than the top so the sanding is consistent across the surface of the ball.
For this you are assuming that the pressure applied on the top is higher than the pressure applied at the sides, though, right ?
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Re: Bowling Ball Surfaces

Post by TheJesus » October 2nd, 2020, 12:46 pm

Interesting subject. As someone who owns the desktop scanner (more accurate and useful than the handheld), and started a Youtube channel about it to hopefully help the players and the sport, and clear up any misconceptions, ( ---> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1cTYc ... Eynuk0qdIw ), i'd like to say a couple of things :

1. About "not being obsessed with accuracy" : I understand it, but you would be surprised how WAY wrong 99% of people are in regards to surface changes ! So it's more like "getting much closer to reality", than obsession with perfection :) Check my channel it will have more on that in the future.

2. About the ball color-surface roughness thing : I think harder surfaces like urethanes, are harder to cut, but i have on my to-test list. However i have done some tests with a hybrid ball, and i cant say i found something weird standing out. It seems to get a consistent cut just like a solid or a pearl. But if you like drop me a comment on the channel with what would you like to test and i'll try to do it for you :)

3. If you have suggestions or ideas you would like to have tested, please drop me a line on my channel, under a video, or in the "Discussion" tab of the channel. I try to do my tests pretty clean, with no video editing, so you all see the results as they come out. :) My english is not the best, but i create subtitles for all my videos for everyone to enjoy. ^_^
Check out my bowling related YouTube channel ! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1cTYc ... Eynuk0qdIw :mrgreen:

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Re: Bowling Ball Surfaces

Post by bowl1820 » October 2nd, 2020, 2:42 pm

TheJesus wrote:
October 2nd, 2020, 12:32 pm
Are you talking about spinner or by hand ?


Both,In any form of sanding (Powered or by Hand on Wood, Plastic (ie: Balls), Metals) using too much pressure doesn't produce good results. You can get uneven surface preparation, it generates lots more friction heat, your paper can load up too fast/much which changes how it cuts, wears out faster etc.
Why would the direction cause a firmer pressure?

The only way i can think of for that, is if the pad or sandpaper in question, has its "peaks" all looking into one specific direction, which they don't. Your hand stays immobile both ways, so pressure should be the same.


Okay here's a crude drawing, On the left the ball is spinning into the hand, basically into the direction of the pressure your hand is applying. This is what causes the firmer pressure.

Think of putting your palm on someone else's then pushing, If they don't push back it's easy to push their hand back. If they push back it's alot harder to push theirs back because of the pressure their putting against you.
spin direction press 01.jpg
Now on the right the ball is spinning basically away from the direction of the pressure your hand is applying. This is why you have to apply kind of of firmer pressure than you would on the other side.

Think of this way, A car tire is in front of you and the top is spinning away from you. if you lay your hand on the top of the tire. The tire will spin under your hand away from you and your hand will bounce up/down some. You have to apply some pressure to keep your hand steady.

Now think of the tire top spinning toward you and you apply that same pressure. The tire is going to shove your hand back at you, Because its spinning into your hand not away from it.
For this you are assuming that the pressure applied on the top is higher than the pressure applied at the sides, though, right ?
No, (I don't know the math or geometry terms for this right off hand so bear with me)

It has to do with the fact the top of the ball rotates at a slower speed than the sides and You travel around the top of the ball a shorter distance than the side.

Plus when you sand on the top of the ball, your sanding the right side, left, front, back all at the same time. Your not sanding one "side" and having to wait for the ball to turn all the way around.
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Re: Bowling Ball Surfaces

Post by TheJesus » October 2nd, 2020, 3:06 pm

Thanks for the reply !
bowl1820 wrote:
October 2nd, 2020, 2:42 pm
Both,In any form of sanding (Powered or by Hand on Wood, Plastic (ie: Balls), Metals) using too much pressure doesn't produce good results. You can get uneven surface preparation, it generates lots more friction heat, your paper can load up too fast/much which changes how it cuts, wears out faster etc.
In my tests by hand, the pads i tried so far, cut more with more pressure. I haven't noticed any major inconsistencies as the sanding method was the same in pressure and duration. I will try more of the known pads in the future. But i agree they will probably wear out faster.
bowl1820 wrote:
October 2nd, 2020, 2:42 pm
Okay here's a crude drawing, On the left the ball is spinning into the hand, basically into the direction of the pressure your hand is applying. This is what causes the firmer pressure.
I agree with this drawing but you have drawn the forces of pressure diagonally towards the ball, not perpendicularly. Why is that? When i put my hand on the spinner i don't feel i am pushing diagonally, but towards the center of the ball.
bowl1820 wrote:
October 2nd, 2020, 2:42 pm
No, (I don't know the math or geometry terms for this right off hand so bear with me)
It has to do with the fact the top of the ball rotates at a slower speed than the sides and You travel around the top of the ball a shorter distance than the side.Plus when you sand on the top of the ball, your sanding the right side, left, front, back all at the same time. Your not sanding one "side" and having to wait for the ball to turn all the way around.
True. I agree.
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bowl1820
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Re: Bowling Ball Surfaces

Post by bowl1820 » October 2nd, 2020, 3:53 pm

TheJesus wrote:
October 2nd, 2020, 3:06 pm
Thanks for the reply !

In my tests by hand, the pads i tried so far, cut more with more pressure. I haven't noticed any major inconsistencies as the sanding method was the same in pressure and duration. I will try more of the known pads in the future. But i agree they will probably wear out faster.
Sanding instructions a lot of times say use "Firm" pressure, But what is "firm"?

This is the thing about discussions regarding pressure when sanding bowling balls there is no set standard to measure against or practical way for a bowler to quantify the pressure they used. Also the variety of abrasive types used and spinner speeds, or hand only use are factors that affect pressures used (whats a firm pressure for one abrasive might be too hard for another etc).

So when you say you use "more" what is "more"? There's no way to really quantify it, So Your more might be my normal, I don't know it doesn't make either wrong.

It just means the individuals have to know what works for them and be consistent with what they do and realize when talking about it there can be differences because there no real common reference point.
I agree with this drawing but you have drawn the forces of pressure diagonally towards the ball, not perpendicularly. Why is that? When i put my hand on the spinner i don't feel i am pushing diagonally, but towards the center of the ball.
As I said it's a crude drawing, but I think it's closer to a real world situation.

Yes Ideally the lines of pressure would all be directed toward the center of the ball, with even amounts of force being applied at all points.

But we are not human Huas machines, now If your using something like C.A.B.s or a SMart tool to hold your abrasives you can more effectively come close to achieving the ideal situation and you won't necessarily see any difference in pressure on one side or the other.

But most people just hold the pads with their bare hands and even when your trying to keep everything "even". Your lower palm will exert abit more pressure than your fingers, each finger will a little different than the others in pressure and direction.

The big take away here is, no matter what side of the ball your sanding. If you switch adjust your pressure so it matches what you did on the other.
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Re: Bowling Ball Surfaces

Post by TheJesus » October 2nd, 2020, 9:17 pm

bowl1820 wrote:
October 2nd, 2020, 3:53 pm
Sanding instructions a lot of times say use "Firm" pressure, But what is "firm"?
I agree, we are not machines. But we do have a feeling of how much we force the pad. For example if you dont think about it when sanding by hand, you pretty much always use the same average force. If you DO focus on it and decide to use less or more force, you will see different results. At least with the materials i have tried so far.
bowl1820 wrote:
October 2nd, 2020, 3:53 pm
So when you say you use "more" what is "more"? There's no way to really quantify it, So Your more might be my normal, I don't know it doesn't make either wrong.
Yes "more" means "compared to my normal pressure". Its not a specific number in Newtons.
bowl1820 wrote:
October 2nd, 2020, 3:53 pm
It just means the individuals have to know what works for them and be consistent with what they do and realize when talking about it there can be differences because there no real common reference point.
True. Yet if we measured all people's force when sanding i bet you we would see a very narrow range of values. Nobody tries to strangle the ball, and nobody is caressing it like a flower :P
bowl1820 wrote:
October 2nd, 2020, 3:53 pm
As I said it's a crude drawing, but I think it's closer to a real world situation.
Yes Ideally the lines of pressure would all be directed toward the center of the ball, with even amounts of force being applied at all points.
But we are not human Huas machines, now If your using something like C.A.B.s or a SMart tool to hold your abrasives you can more effectively come close to achieving the ideal situation and you won't necessarily see any difference in pressure on one side or the other.
But most people just hold the pads with their bare hands and even when your trying to keep everything "even". Your lower palm will exert a bit more pressure than your fingers, each finger will a little different than the others in pressure and direction.The big take away here is, no matter what side of the ball your sanding. If you switch adjust your pressure so it matches what you did on the other.
Ok that COULD be true, i don't know, and i cannot measure it directly. But i can measure it INdirectly by the uniformity and final grit i achieve with the spinner. If what you say is true, i should see different results between using my right or left hand. I could test that. In any case, everyone uses always the same hand, so everyone uses the same method and doesn't run the risk of getting different results. Ok unless someone is ambidextrous and changes hands between ball sides for some reason :P
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