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 Post subject: Benefits of IBPSIA courses
 Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:37 pm Post Number: #1 Post
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I started working in a proshop in 2001. I learned the basics, how to operate the press, do plug work, etc. I moved to another state, but continued working part-time with another PSO in 2006. I ran my own shop from 2010-2012. Now I work as a PSO in conjunction with another PSO. We split days and are equal partners.

I’ve been following the Morich fitting instructions for years. I follow the dual angle guide and the ratio guide for layouts. Obviously I know how to find and apply tilt, axis rotation to layouts while calculating speed and rev rate comparison. I’m not saying I’m perfect.

I have a friend that works in a shop a couple hours from me. He is IBPSIA certified and keeps hounding me to become certified. He says I need it to fit people properly. After reviewing the training modules on the IBPSIA page, I don’t feel he even fits with their standard. Having seen his fits he doesn’t account for thumb flexibility and gives everyone 5/8 to 3/4 rev in their fingers regardless of their flexibility.

What would be the benefit of certification? I can’t really seem to find anything on their site that Wouod significantly help me become better.

Thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: Benefits of IBPSIA courses
 Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 8:10 pm Post Number: #2 Post
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fufu wrote:
I started working in a proshop in 2001. I learned the basics, how to operate the press, do plug work, etc. I moved to another state, but continued working part-time with another PSO in 2006. I ran my own shop from 2010-2012. Now I work as a PSO in conjunction with another PSO. We split days and are equal partners.

I’ve been following the Morich fitting instructions for years. I follow the dual angle guide and the ratio guide for layouts. Obviously I know how to find and apply tilt, axis rotation to layouts while calculating speed and rev rate comparison. I’m not saying I’m perfect.

I have a friend that works in a shop a couple hours from me. He is IBPSIA certified and keeps hounding me to become certified. He says I need it to fit people properly. After reviewing the training modules on the IBPSIA page, I don’t feel he even fits with their standard. Having seen his fits he doesn’t account for thumb flexibility and gives everyone 5/8 to 3/4 rev in their fingers regardless of their flexibility.

What would be the benefit of certification? I can’t really seem to find anything on their site that Wouod significantly help me become better.

Thoughts?


Talk is cheap, sounds like he didnt learn anything.
Go to the Innovative hands on class.

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 Post subject: Re: Benefits of IBPSIA courses
 Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 8:45 pm Post Number: #3 Post
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Could you elaborate on what I might pickup for $1000?

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 Post subject: Re: Benefits of IBPSIA courses
 Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 8:58 pm Post Number: #4 Post
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fufu wrote:
Could you elaborate on what I might pickup for $1000?


You'll get hands on training with the industry's best technicians.
When Mo moved on from IBPSIA he moved his efforts to John Jameson's hub in Jacobus, PA.
I think there are discounts on pro shop equipment as incentive. Buy a press, get a class type of deal.
Some of the tip and tricks you'll learn are worth the money.
There are always ways to do it better.

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 Post subject: Re: Benefits of IBPSIA courses
 Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:17 pm Post Number: #5 Post
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I’ll look into it. Being in the PNW I don’t see many opportunities without significant travel

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 Post subject: Re: Benefits of IBPSIA courses
 Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:24 am Post Number: #6 Post
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I've been to a Pro Shop training course where the IBPSIA accreditation was offered as an extra, but I declined since the instruction/information was the same. It was simply an extra test you could take at the conclusion, and receive accreditation if you passed.

Focusing on the Fitting portion of the class, I felt the information provided was less comprehensive than the Morich fitting guide. They used the exact same Thumb Pitch chart (Forward/Reverse), but not the charts relating to Lateral Thumb pitches (Gripping Tube, etc) or Lateral Finger pitches (CLT).

The basis of the IBPSIA materials, and the Morich guide as well, looked very familiar to me when I first read them. They were all an evolution of Bill Taylor's methods, from his "Black Book" first published many decades ago, maybe the mid-70s. I can't saw for sure if Taylor created these methods, or he was simply the first to put them on paper. My point being, there was nothing ground-breaking to me. I'm not slamming anything here, just pointing out that the fitting process is an evolution, and the Morich guide is more detailed than what I was offered in class.

Short story long, with the experience you're citing regarding fitting, I doubt you'd feel your money was well spent if you paid for the certification.

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 Post subject: Re: Benefits of IBPSIA courses
 Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:27 am Post Number: #7 Post
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DarkHorse wrote:
I've been to a Pro Shop training course where the IBPSIA accreditation was offered as an extra, but I declined since the instruction/information was the same. It was simply an extra test you could take at the conclusion, and receive accreditation if you passed.

Focusing on the Fitting portion of the class, I felt the information provided was less comprehensive than the Morich fitting guide. They used the exact same Thumb Pitch chart (Forward/Reverse), but not the charts relating to Lateral Thumb pitches (Gripping Tube, etc) or Lateral Finger pitches (CLT).

The basis of the IBPSIA materials, and the Morich guide as well, looked very familiar to me when I first read them. They were all an evolution of Bill Taylor's methods, from his "Black Book" first published many decades ago, maybe the mid-70s. I can't saw for sure if Taylor created these methods, or he was simply the first to put them on paper. My point being, there was nothing ground-breaking to me. I'm not slamming anything here, just pointing out that the fitting process is an evolution, and the Morich guide is more detailed than what I was offered in class.

Short story long, with the experience you're citing regarding fitting, I doubt you'd feel your money was well spent if you paid for the certification.



This is what i worry about. It could be a $2000 endeavor with travel which will yield very little benefit to me. Like I said I follow the Morich fitting instructions and I’m getting better each day with layouts.

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 Post subject: Re: Benefits of IBPSIA courses
 Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:15 pm Post Number: #8 Post
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As an alternative take a look at the Bowling Chat University course, link below. Great information and it's free unless you decide to take the certification tests, which are not very expensive. -- JohnP

http://bcu.bowlingchat.net/


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 Post subject: Re: Benefits of IBPSIA courses
 Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:34 pm Post Number: #9 Post
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JohnP wrote:
As an alternative take a look at the Bowling Chat University course, link below. Great information and it's free unless you decide to take the certification tests, which are not very expensive. -- JohnP

http://bcu.bowlingchat.net/


Thank you sir. I took the first module test and got 93....in 4 minutes. :mrgreen:

Tell me more about the certification tests!

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 Post subject: Re: Benefits of IBPSIA courses
 Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:03 pm Post Number: #10 Post
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I'm sure MegaMav will be glad to do so. -- JohnP


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 Post subject: Re: Benefits of IBPSIA courses
 Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:48 pm Post Number: #11 Post
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JohnP wrote:
I'm sure MegaMav will be glad to do so. -- JohnP


Thanks John.

Take all of the classes up to the final exam.
Each attempt at the exam is $10.
The exam is very difficult, but a fair and thorough evaluation of your functional knowledge of the applied concepts.
Pass the exam with an 80% and above and receive a certificate via email and a special forum rank tag.
Nobody has achieved a perfect score on the exam.... yet.

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 Post subject: Re: Benefits of IBPSIA courses
 Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:51 am Post Number: #12 Post
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DarkHorse wrote:
The basis of the IBPSIA materials, and the Morich guide as well, looked very familiar to me when I first read them. They were all an evolution of Bill Taylor's methods, from his "Black Book" first published many decades ago, maybe the mid-70s. I can't saw for sure if Taylor created these methods, or he was simply the first to put them on paper.


Taylor came up with many original concepts along with the work of Bill Bunnetta and Tom Korous. These three pioneers were the first, as far I know, to apply a scientific methodology to the pro shop fitting process.

The value of certification is to learn new concepts and practices and thus offer your interested customers that you took the time, effort and money to enhance your skill set. The IBPSIA certification class is very good for the beginner and the less experienced. It is rock solid for basics.

John Jameson's Innovation classes are two fold. In the spring he has the Storm team come in and gives the class which presents Storm's perspective and while it has an orientation toward the basics, it is NOT reductionistic at all. In the fall, Mo's class is offered and it is geared for those who have more experience. It is a combination of basics with a strong orientation toward advanced concepts and methodologies. Plus, another advantages of a certification class is you get to meet and work with others who might add additional insights.

MegaMav wrote:
You'll get hands on training with the industry's best technicians.
When Mo moved on from IBPSIA he moved his efforts to John Jameson's hub in Jacobus, PA.
I think there are discounts on pro shop equipment as incentive. Buy a press, get a class type of deal.
Some of the tip and tricks you'll learn are worth the money.
There are always ways to do it better.


I have been very fortunate to have taken classes and/or work with some of the very best/Master Pro Shop professionals , for example, Bill Taylor, Tom Korous, Dave Smart, Kelly Bednar, Jerry Francomano, Ron Hoppe, Mo Pinel, Team Storm, Carl Hofmire, Bill Hall and John Jameson among others. I have NO regrets paying for their services and insights. I have been fortunate to learn T grips and various aspects of the "T Grip" but also grip methodologies such as CLT (which I use as my starting point) as well as the Max Y, ADT. and Tri grips.

My recommendation is to attend the classes at Innovative and take in all you can. Learning is a never ending process.

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