Home Pro Shop

This forum is for topics related to pro shop operation and bowling center maintenance.
Usual topics include: shop gear, fitting, drilling and lane maintenance.

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lpc300
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Home Pro Shop

Post by lpc300 »

Hi all. First post. I have been doing some research on possibly doing some work on bowling balls at home... drilling and plugging, specifically. Not because I have an issue with my pro shop guy, but for the challenge and because it's something I've wanted to do for a couple of decades. I know I could purchase a package from Jayhawk or Innovative, but I am looking at reducing costs. What I have been thinking of doing is purchasing a drill press and a mill table. I was thinking of a standard drill press with a 4" spindle travel, but I've read online that some suggest that you don't get a standard drill press, but get a drill-mill instead, as the bearings in the standard drill won't hold up when drilling offsets/pitches. Is this accurate? My thought would be something like this: " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Would something like that work once I had the mill table and jig?

Thanks in advance.
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Re: Home Pro Shop

Post by LittleTiger »

Hi

I think that couple of guys on this forum have DIY ball drill.


Here is specs of mine:
  • Plastic ball holder/cup
  • DIY ball jig, made from 20 mm aluminum plate and threaded rods
  • 31/32" drill bit for finger grips
  • 1 1/2" drill bit for switch grip outer sleeve
And here some pictures from it:
Drill press.jpg
Milling table.jpg

About accuracy. Of course these cheap tools are not so accurate than expensive professional tools but with enough training I have found way how to ball drilled good enough for my personal use. Most critical especially with big switch grip hole you need use enough intermediate size drill bits (I use cheap wood drill bits for this) before going to 1 1/2".


After all what you need most is time. It took almost year from me to get everything together and learn how to drill bowling balls before I was confiding enough to drill brand new ball with it.
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lpc300
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Re: Home Pro Shop

Post by lpc300 »

LittleTiger wrote:Hi

I think that couple of guys on this forum have DIY ball drill.


Here is specs of mine:
  • Plastic ball holder/cup
  • DIY ball jig, made from 20 mm aluminum plate and threaded rods
  • 31/32" drill bit for finger grips
  • 1 1/2" drill bit for switch grip outer sleeve
And here some pictures from it:
Drill press.jpg
Milling table.jpg

About accuracy. Of course these cheap tools are not so accurate than expensive professional tools but with enough training I have found way how to ball drilled good enough for my personal use. Most critical especially with big switch grip hole you need use enough intermediate size drill bits (I use cheap wood drill bits for this) before going to 1 1/2".


After all what you need most is time. It took almost year from me to get everything together and learn how to drill bowling balls before I was confiding enough to drill brand new ball with it.
Thank you. Can you tell me what the specs of the drill press are? For example, what's the spindle travel, as I know that's an important component. Also, have you had any mechanical problems with the press as a result of using it in this way?
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Re: Home Pro Shop

Post by LittleTiger »

lpc300 wrote:Can you tell me what the specs of the drill press are? For example, what's the spindle travel, as I know that's an important component.
It is on that web page "Max. drilling depth: 80 mm" which is little bit more than 3 inch.

To able to drill deep enough hole for switch grip I need move drill bit once to little bit out but that way it works fine. If you are able to find drill press which max drilling depth is 4 inch then it is of course easier but make sure that there is no too much looseness (I'm not use if that is correct word) on drill press which you choose.

Easier way to check how much looseness there is rotate spindle to maximum and then test shake that with your hand. You will notice that there is big differences on quality of these cheap drill presses.

lpc300 wrote:Also, have you had any mechanical problems with the press as a result of using it in this way?
Not really but to able to set even lower rpms (minimum on mine is 450) would be useful when drilling big holes. But using enough intermediate size drill bits and press it slow enough will makes it still possible to use even with these rpms.
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Re: Home Pro Shop

Post by LittleTiger »

Btw. There is also this option if you don't want build up own DIY ball drill: http://kmtballjig.com
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Re: Home Pro Shop

Post by lpc300 »

LittleTiger wrote:It is on that web page "Max. drilling depth: 80 mm" which is little bit more than 3 inch.
Thanks.
To able to drill deep enough hole for switch grip I need move drill bit once to little bit out but that way it works fine. If you are able to find drill press which max drilling depth is 4 inch then it is of course easier but make sure that there is no too much looseness (I'm not use if that is correct word) on drill press which you choose.

Easier way to check how much looseness there is rotate spindle to maximum and then test shake that with your hand. You will notice that there is big differences on quality of these cheap drill presses.
How would one move the drill bit if the spindle travel was only 3"?

Not really but to able to set even lower rpms (minimum on mine is 450) would be useful when drilling big holes. But using enough intermediate size drill bits and press it slow enough will makes it still possible to use even with these rpms.
Yes, a lot of what I've read keys on the importance of lower rpms when drilling larger holes. I believe that something like 400 would be helpful for really large ones.
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Re: Home Pro Shop

Post by lpc300 »

LittleTiger wrote:Btw. There is also this option if you don't want build up own DIY ball drill: http://kmtballjig.com
I've been talking to Steve (the owner of kmt) and am considering going that route. Just looking at all my options.
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Re: Home Pro Shop

Post by LittleTiger »

lpc300 wrote:How would one move the drill bit if the spindle travel was only 3"?
Simple.

Drill first 3 inches like this:
Drill first 3 inches.jpg
Then move drill bit to outer like this and drill one more half inch:
drill next half inch.jpg

Important is make sure that there is just enough space to be able to change drill bits but not too much because you will not be able to drill deep enough holes then anymore.
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Re: Home Pro Shop

Post by DarkHorse »

I'd recommend against a floor-standing drill press with a table like that.
I purchased a similar Porter-Cable unit from Lowe's (about $320 before tax), and it shakes more than a Jeep with death wobble (that's a lot, for those of you that have never had the joy). Good enough for basic home work, but the densities of bowling balls with large drill bits will cause problems.
A good, relatively inexpensive drill press would be an old Delta/Rockwell 15-017, or similar. Check Craigslist for local deals. Or if you were willing/able to cut down the floor press to a benchtop size, that could work.

A standard drill press will hold up just fine if it is of decent quality. I'd say you can get to about 3/4" pitch before you start to have issues, assuming you use proper technique (measure twice, cut once; go slow). What you cannot do accurately with most drill presses (vs. mills) is create oval holes. The bit will drift near the bottom, and will need a lot of finishing.

The bigger costs will be drill bits. If you use finger inserts and thumb slugs, you can get away with just three bits (thumbhole size as well), but then your balance holes are limited.

The most difficult item to find, yet still recommended, is a dodo scale. I lucked out and found an AMF on eBay. Jayhawk's mini electronic scale looks neat, though. Otherwise you'll need to have a regular shop checks static weights for you. You can't trust the markings on the ball.

If I could do it all over again, I'd just buy the Vertex benchtop unit from Innovative and piece together the drill bits as needed. I know the initial price tag can be a bit much, but lack of quality will quickly outweigh any price savings. If you've been waiting a couple decades, then you should wait a little longer to save up more money.

Buy once, cry once. Good luck.
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Re: Home Pro Shop

Post by BreadNbutterShot »

DarkHorse wrote:If you've been waiting a couple decades, then you should wait a little longer to save up more money. Buy once, cry once. Good luck.
WORD!!

I don't have anything against doing it home, but have you asked from your PSO if he would let you use his equipment. He may charge something but I would assume you still could drill plenty of ball's comparing if you buy your own equipment. This is the road I am planning to try now when I am starting to fine tune my grip.

How ever if you are going to buy equipment I would definitely do what DarkHorse suggested. Nothing is more frustrating than trying to make things happen with bad quality tools. It might be cheaper for short, but if you need lot's of trial and error, in long run it will probably cost you more. Like LitleTiger mentioned it took about year to get it right.

Interesting to see how you will figure this out. Keep us informed!
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Re: Home Pro Shop

Post by BreadNbutterShot »

Just for curiosity can some one explain main differences, advantages and dis advantages when comparing different Jig's. Let's say Innovative Litchco, PowerVac and Jayhawk Tri-Oval.

PowerVac seems to be less hassle with nuts and bolts but seems more inaccurate comparing to others.

Also I would like to hear if some one have tested/measured KMT personal jig's true pitches. I would assume with that kind of setting it is quite easy to go wrong.
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Re: Home Pro Shop

Post by lpc300 »

LittleTiger wrote: Simple.

Drill first 3 inches like this:
Drill first 3 inches.jpg
Then move drill bit to outer like this and drill one more half inch:
drill next half inch.jpg

Important is make sure that there is just enough space to be able to change drill bits but not too much because you will not be able to drill deep enough holes then anymore.
Thank you. From what I've been reading, it looks like the way that a lot of people suggest is to move the drill press table up so that the bit is already inside the ball, and then keep drilling. What's the standard thumb hole depth?
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Re: Home Pro Shop

Post by lpc300 »

DarkHorse wrote:I'd recommend against a floor-standing drill press with a table like that.
I purchased a similar Porter-Cable unit from Lowe's (about $320 before tax), and it shakes more than a Jeep with death wobble (that's a lot, for those of you that have never had the joy). Good enough for basic home work, but the densities of bowling balls with large drill bits will cause problems.
A good, relatively inexpensive drill press would be an old Delta/Rockwell 15-017, or similar. Check Craigslist for local deals. Or if you were willing/able to cut down the floor press to a benchtop size, that could work.

A standard drill press will hold up just fine if it is of decent quality. I'd say you can get to about 3/4" pitch before you start to have issues, assuming you use proper technique (measure twice, cut once; go slow). What you cannot do accurately with most drill presses (vs. mills) is create oval holes. The bit will drift near the bottom, and will need a lot of finishing.

The bigger costs will be drill bits. If you use finger inserts and thumb slugs, you can get away with just three bits (thumbhole size as well), but then your balance holes are limited.

The most difficult item to find, yet still recommended, is a dodo scale. I lucked out and found an AMF on eBay. Jayhawk's mini electronic scale looks neat, though. Otherwise you'll need to have a regular shop checks static weights for you. You can't trust the markings on the ball.

If I could do it all over again, I'd just buy the Vertex benchtop unit from Innovative and piece together the drill bits as needed. I know the initial price tag can be a bit much, but lack of quality will quickly outweigh any price savings. If you've been waiting a couple decades, then you should wait a little longer to save up more money.

Buy once, cry once. Good luck.
Really good advice... thank you. I used to be the guy who bought whatever was least expensive. I stopped doing that after I "splurged" on really good tires and was very happy with the results. I do like the DIY concept, and do that in other areas of my life. One reason why I want to drill balls. I've read good reviews on the Vertex drill machine... and I have a Vertex ball spinner that I am extremely satisfied with, so what you are saying makes sense and fits with reviews and my idea of wanting to do things right.

Btw... I googled the Delta/Rockwell. Ebay has one for $280 right now.
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Re: Home Pro Shop

Post by lpc300 »

BreadNbutterShot wrote: I don't have anything against doing it home, but have you asked from your PSO if he would let you use his equipment. He may charge something but I would assume you still could drill plenty of ball's comparing if you buy your own equipment. This is the road I am planning to try now when I am starting to fine tune my grip.
The PSO I'm using is new... at least to me. He drilled my first ball about 3 weeks ago and I don't feel as if I know him well enough to ask that. Nice guy. New to the center, too. A guy I had used for about 10 years and had been good enough friends with that he had subbed on a couple of teams with me, no longer drills and is MIA. He I would have.
How ever if you are going to buy equipment I would definitely do what DarkHorse suggested. Nothing is more frustrating than trying to make things happen with bad quality tools. It might be cheaper for short, but if you need lot's of trial and error, in long run it will probably cost you more. Like LitleTiger mentioned it took about year to get it right.

Interesting to see how you will figure this out. Keep us informed!
The debate for me is the idea of getting the right equipment that was put together, verses figuring out how to put the right equipment together myself. One hobby I have is building computers. Figuring out what components fit together, how they work together, and seeing them work together is probably more fun than using the finished product. I know... this is different than building a computer... which is why I'm listening and I keep writing rather than buying.

Thanks for the feedback.
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Re: Home Pro Shop

Post by lpc300 »

BreadNbutterShot wrote:Just for curiosity can some one explain main differences, advantages and dis advantages when comparing different Jig's. Let's say Innovative Litchco, PowerVac and Jayhawk Tri-Oval.

PowerVac seems to be less hassle with nuts and bolts but seems more inaccurate comparing to others.

Also I would like to hear if some one have tested/measured KMT personal jig's true pitches. I would assume with that kind of setting it is quite easy to go wrong.
I've been talking to Steve (the owner of KMT) and I've read lots of reviews. Seems like his product does a good job at repeatability.
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Re: Home Pro Shop

Post by lpc300 »

Btw... I saw this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/DELTA-SHOP-MAST ... 2533864393

What do you all think?
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Re: Home Pro Shop

Post by EricHartwell »

Did you see this one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/COMPLETE-BRUNSW ... 2147659432" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It might be worth making an offer.
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Re: Home Pro Shop

Post by georgeh »

lpc300 wrote:Btw... I saw this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/DELTA-SHOP-MAST ... 2533864393

What do you all think?
If you want to go the frugal route, there are ways to go about it and be able to drill any ball, any way you want, except oval thumb holes. Drill presses have limits, particularly the Chinese made with M/T2 chuck shanks, they do not like the side pressure when drilling ovals.

As an example, I found a 17" Enco floor model drill press on craigslist for $125, I paired that up with a $140 AMF three post jig from ebay, and bid/won $105 on a set of 28 SS drill bits, for a total of $370. I also purchased new from Innovative Bowling, the following drill bits, 31/32, 1 1/4, 1 3/8, and from ebay (bid/won) 61/64, 63/64 for $20 shipped. After test drilling the used bits I only found 4-5 that absolutely needed sharpening and I had already purchased most of those. I chose the Enco press 25 years ago due to the fact it has a 5" spindle depth stroke and 4 1/2" is the near minimum required to drill a ball.

I added a pic of the set up with a M/T2 extension, since I had the bits and extension til I got the straight shank bits. Also, there is very little vibration with the M/T2 bits and zero with the straight shank.

To clarify, this was a second set up as I already had a decent set up from around 1991 with a mini-mill (or slide table) with a Gil-Mac ball holder (I mentioned in another thread).

Since you are looking for the (minimum) requirements to piece a set up together here's a few;
Drill press need a 16.5" plus swing, 4.5" spindle throw, a 1/2hp motor, a table or base large enough to hold a jig securely and adjustable speeds with a low around 300rpm. Jig needs to hold the ball solidly, the bits need to be sharp and preferably straight shank. I personally have found SOME M/T2 shank bits tend to vibrate, sometimes violently when drill multi density balls.

Also you will need the accessories like Pitch Gauges, Span Ruler, 1/4 Ball Scale or Pro Sect and some type of fitter, even if you drill for yourself.

added; Oh yeah, a 5/8" chuck
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Re: Home Pro Shop

Post by VLe »

Tip of the day for DIY-drillers. Google: "18mm 4 Flute HSS & Special extended length Aluminium End Mill Cutter CNC Bit Milling Machinery Cutting tools" (size 4F-18*16*100*160)

Very good milling-drill bit for ovals etc. The lenght fits great if you are using s&d lenght drilling bits. A cross feed table is required to make really accurate drillings. Sinks into bowlingball like cheese compared to normal (all around) drill bits. If you are using normal bench drill that has the standard morse type attachment system without the gripping cone that is used in milling machines the tool may come loose when ovaling a hole. I dont have this problem with the milling bit at all. Bought mine at aliexpress for about 20 dollars including shipping.
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Re: Home Pro Shop

Post by Bdgf99 »

EricHartwell wrote:Did you see this one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/COMPLETE-BRUNSW ... 2147659432" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It might be worth making an offer.
It's relisted at $200 less. He may be willing to play ball.
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