Trying to help a bowler in our league. He just had a new ball drilled and it's tracking over the thumb hole. He tracks a little high on everything else he has, just not over the thumb.
Any ideas?
Tracking over thumb
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Re: Tracking over thumb
As a high track player myself, I cannot use pin down balls for this very reason. If you draw a line from the bowler's PAP, through the pin, in will show you where the center of the bow tie will be. As the pin gets lower, the bow tie gets lower, and the flare starts to hit the thumb hole.
Re: Tracking over thumb
Not pin down...Don't know the PAP but I can find it next week. I took a casual look at the layout and the pin is about 2" from the ring finger at about 10 o'clock (lefty) and the CG is middle of the palm.
BTW, it's a Storm Pitch Black.
Thanx again for any ideas.
BTW, it's a Storm Pitch Black.
Thanx again for any ideas.
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Re: Tracking over thumb
Where the pin is in relation to the finger holes is irrelevant. It the position in relation to the PAP that means something.StormFan wrote:Not pin down...Don't know the PAP but I can find it next week. I took a casual look at the layout and the pin is about 2" from the ring finger at about 10 o'clock (lefty) and the CG is middle of the palm.
BTW, it's a Storm Pitch Black.
Thanx again for any ideas.
Re: Tracking over thumb
Is it possible to pull the track away from the thumb with a weight hole?
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Re: Tracking over thumb
The Pitch Black is a low differential, low flare potential. It is not uncommon to have a PAP further from the grip on a low flaring set up.
A large enough Double Thumb/P3 balance hole could produce enough flare to pull it off the thumb sooner if not completely. Cg in the middle of the grip doesn't allow for a large hole though.
A large enough Double Thumb/P3 balance hole could produce enough flare to pull it off the thumb sooner if not completely. Cg in the middle of the grip doesn't allow for a large hole though.
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
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Re: Tracking over thumb
What is the grip angle and what are the finger pitches? One solution is to plug the fingerholes and redrill them while adding 1/8 right pitch to original pitches (for leftie) to both finger holes. In many cases this increases tilt enough to get the flare of the thumb.
For example left handed bowler has 12 dg grip angle, and has 0,344 right pitch on ring finger and 0,531 left pitch on ring finger. After adding 0,125 right to both pitches the resulting pitches would be 0,469 right pitch on middle finger and 0,406 left pitch on ring finger. Which will help to pull the track away from the thumb.
For example left handed bowler has 12 dg grip angle, and has 0,344 right pitch on ring finger and 0,531 left pitch on ring finger. After adding 0,125 right to both pitches the resulting pitches would be 0,469 right pitch on middle finger and 0,406 left pitch on ring finger. Which will help to pull the track away from the thumb.
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Stats:
PAP 6 over 1/16 down
17 mph
425 rpm
Rotation 70
Tilt 8 dg
ProShop Operator / Bowling Center Staff
Bowling Center Seinäjoki, Finland
ETBF level 1 ProShop Driller / Manager
B.E. Automation. Seinäjoki University of Applied Sciences.
Stats:
PAP 6 over 1/16 down
17 mph
425 rpm
Rotation 70
Tilt 8 dg
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Re: Tracking over thumb
Is this a universal rule? That the line from the PAP through the pin to the first track is always where the bow tie will be?RobMautner wrote:As a high track player myself, I cannot use pin down balls for this very reason. If you draw a line from the bowler's PAP, through the pin, in will show you where the center of the bow tie will be. As the pin gets lower, the bow tie gets lower, and the flare starts to hit the thumb hole.
68.2353°N 14.5636°E is where it happens!
Re: Tracking over thumb
I don't know that it's a set in stone rule, but it has been a general guideline for approximating the top bowtie location.jimmydanny wrote: Is this a universal rule? That the line from the PAP through the pin to the first track is always where the bow tie will be?
This had to do with what was called the Flare Safe zone, if you had a high track and you put the pin too low. You ran the risk of the ball flaring over your finger holes.
The old guideline on what you did was draw a line from your initial PAP through your Ring finger hole to the track. (This IMO showed basically where your release would cause the bowtie to be.)
Then If you placed the pin above and to the right of that imaginary line (on high track players) it minimized the chances of the ball tracking (flaring) over the finger holes.
If you placed the pin below that imaginary line you ran a greater risk of the ball tracking (flaring) over the finger holes.
You would also see "draw a line from the PAP through the pin to the track. To approximate the top bowtie location." used in conjunction with it. (This IMO showed basically where the ball layout +release would most likely cause the bowtie to be.)
This is a quote from Ebonite that relates to this also:
"If you draw a line from the positive axis point, through the locator pin to your ball track, that spot would constitute the pivot for your track flare bow tie. When the track flares, it moves closer to the fingers and farther from the thumb so this causes your ball to roll over the fingers.
You should ONLY drill a pin in the flare safe zone referenced in our documentation. That zone is above a line from your positive axis point to your ring finger. Anything below that line raises your roll especially in asymmetrical bowling products."
According to a MO post he said that's more related to how older balls tracked, That with today's more dynamic cores the bowtie locations have been altered somewhat. He said:
"On modern balls the top bowtie is usually about an 1 1/2" to 3" above the line(on the track) from the PAP through the pin. The bowtie(location?) is far less defined than it used to be because of the stronger dynamics of modern cores."
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Re: Tracking over thumb
Funny story, it doesn't always move away from your thumb, though. The rule applies, but isn't correct unless you got a PAP with a small vertical factor.
With my sarge easter I have what is almost full roller tracking, but my PAP was 3 1/2 right by 2" up. So that put my bowtie rather low in a lot of layouts. So when the ball flared, it flared over the thumb hole, or around it and over the balance hole instead.
Particularly ironic was it when my 900G Break Out got a balance hole to move the track from the thumb hole, which worked, and then it flared around it and over the new balance hole.
Thankfully I am trying to go full fingertip again, along with two injections of corticosteroids in my ring finger joint.
With my sarge easter I have what is almost full roller tracking, but my PAP was 3 1/2 right by 2" up. So that put my bowtie rather low in a lot of layouts. So when the ball flared, it flared over the thumb hole, or around it and over the balance hole instead.
Particularly ironic was it when my 900G Break Out got a balance hole to move the track from the thumb hole, which worked, and then it flared around it and over the new balance hole.
Thankfully I am trying to go full fingertip again, along with two injections of corticosteroids in my ring finger joint.
68.2353°N 14.5636°E is where it happens!