CAN'T MOVE. WHAT TO DO

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deadlyaim1
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CAN'T MOVE. WHAT TO DO

Post by deadlyaim1 »

I'm new so not able to control too many things in my approach and delivery. Getting better, no doubt, with practice, specially after my fit is figured out.

But

Still having trouble with the lane transition. I'm basically a Stroker and when the lanes break down and I have to move inside, my troubles start.

Typically play on medium to medium heavy, 42 feet low volume, synthetic Brunswick lanes. But occasionally, they can be either very dry or very wet and slick.

So far I've been using 3 to four ball, run of the mill Arsenal, which is also old, you know, Benchmark, Ball up, Ball Down. But now I'm trying to shift mode to serious. Threw away all old balls. Trying to figure out a way to use ball surface and core characteristics instead of moving my feet a lot.

My Specs are that of a typical newbie Stroker. Low Rev, Tilt, Rotation, slightly higher Speed and Track. I'm a righty with PAP 4 and 3/4 over 1/2 up.

I'm looking to put together a 6 Ball Arsenal including a Plastic ball, so 5 balls which can keep me between 10 and 15 boards no matter what the lane conditions are. I want to keep throwing within 5 boards of Track Area and keep my feet right of 25th board as I loose all control if I go deeper than that.

Need ball advice and Layout advice.

Don't want to break the bank though.

PS: When I asked a question like that in the past some friends got technical with RGs Diffs and Int Diffs and so on, though I'm trying to learn as much as can, still I'm lost very quickly when technical talk starts.

I know some don't want to or like to promote specific company or balls, but I would really appreciate if they can make exception just for once so know exactly what to buy and how to get it drilled.

I also know that without seeing someone throw a game or two in person, it's hard, even for the best minds to give good advice, but please try. Any help would be appreciated.

I have no preference in terms of Company. It can be any, just have to NOT BE TOO EXPENSIVE.

Thanks
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EricHartwell
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Re: CAN'T MOVE. WHAT TO DO

Post by EricHartwell »

deadlyaim1 wrote:My Specs are that of a typical newbie Stroker. Low Rev, Tilt, Rotation, slightly higher Speed and Track. I'm a righty with PAP 4 and 3/4 over 1/2 up.
To set up an arsenal to play the lanes as you want, accurate release specs are needed. This is not enough information to give layout advice.
Here is a link to help you determine your release specs.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=373" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ball advice to stay in your comfort zone in the track area...
I would suggest Solid 500 grit, Hybrid 2000 grit, Pearl 4000 grit, Urethane 4000 grit and Plastic.
As friction levels increase on your line, ball down to stay in your comfort zone.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
elgavachon
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Re: CAN'T MOVE. WHAT TO DO

Post by elgavachon »

You might try posting a video.
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Re: CAN'T MOVE. WHAT TO DO

Post by RobMautner »

I have a hunch that your problem is not is your bowling balls, but is in your approach toward moving in when the lanes break down. Normally when a stroker has trouble moving in, it comes from one or both of two things:

1. Walking right. When you are used to starting at the second arrow and the track begins to burn up, you move your feet to the left, but do you still end up on the same board that you did before you moved? Many bowlers do. Make sure that as you move your starting position to the left, that your slide moves left the same amount.

2. The most common excuse that I hear from strokers who have trouble moving in is that they don't have enough "hand" to get the ball back as they move left.

Imagine a 40' lane condition where strokers are playing the second arrows out to 8 board at the far tracer, tweeners are playing the third arrow out to 8 board at the far tracer, and crankers are playing the fourth arrow out to 8 board at the far tracer. Where is the lane drying up? It is drying up at the end of the pattern where everyone's ball is going. Soon the 40' pattern is about 37' long. What develops is an area that I call The Dead Zone and Joe Sloinski calls El Diablo. It is the area that gets so dry that balls begin to burn up and lose energy.

To overcome this, move everything left: your feet, your target at the arrows, and your breakpoint. Using this method, you don't need a lot of "hand" to get the ball back, and you don't need to lug around six balls to bowl on a house shot.
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Re: CAN'T MOVE. WHAT TO DO

Post by MegaMav »

RobMautner wrote: Imagine a 40' lane condition where strokers are playing the second arrows out to 8 board at the far tracer, tweeners are playing the third arrow out to 8 board at the far tracer, and crankers are playing the fourth arrow out to 8 board at the far tracer. Where is the lane drying up? It is drying up at the end of the pattern where everyone's ball is going. Soon the 40' pattern is about 37' long. What develops is an area that I call The Dead Zone and Joe Sloinski calls El Diablo. It is the area that gets so dry that balls begin to burn up and lose energy.

To overcome this, move everything left: your feet, your target at the arrows, and your breakpoint. Using this method, you don't need a lot of "hand" to get the ball back, and you don't need to lug around six balls to bowl on a house shot.
Essentially what you're saying is, there is no carrydown on a house shot.
Completely disagree with that. Im sure I've expressed this before.

The man to the right is usually using a shiny ball (usually an old, oil soaked ball) with a very low rev rate. He has the tendency to pull it because his miss out, mentally he thinks it cant make it back. All those yanks into the big, tall overblock has its consequences over time and its usually that hang spot that goes another 3-4 feet on pulls in for the bowlers that play left of him/her by the middle of the night.

The bowlers that are playing to the left of him are likely also using balls that are shiny, but their angles to the breakpoint are much steeper and leave the pattern to the right much earlier than the breakpoint of the man to the right inflicting all the hold on the pattern. IMO, not everyone targets the same spot, and shiny balls do not tear up a house shot thats been getting taller and taller with the more modern coverstocks. Every miss in, causes more push. More by the stroker, less by the high rev guy. When does it not? When a ball is dull, and absorbs more than it pushes.

Scientifically, this "burn" you're talking about should cause the ball to hook.
Rotation + Mechanical friction means the ball deviates from a very close to linear trajectory known as skid.
The bowler should see it, the ball will move left to right for a righty, but it doesnt, it goes 50 feet. straight down the lane and its very late to the pocket. This is not burn, this is carrydown.

I think the move left is a mistake, because you're putting the hang, or hold to the right of you. This is very difficult to overcome. Miss left and it will be more left, miss right and it will be more right. There is no hold around 13-14, nobody is likely putting their ball in that spot all night at the breakpoint. IMO, the move should be to move more left and steepen up the angle to "hook around" that spot. Get the ball into the friction earlier to help the stroker get the ball to the pocket.

The house shot is so tall and thick now that I just dont see "burn" as a problem. I only see push.
Maybe its a difference in coasts, but I dont see what you're seeing on house shots. At all.
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Re: CAN'T MOVE. WHAT TO DO

Post by RobMautner »

It probably is a difference in coasts, or at least weather conditions. Here in Vegas, arguably the bowling capitol of the world, very few bowlers use old, oil-soaked balls. Combine the use of overly-aggressive bowling balls (everyone's got to have the latest and greatest) with the very, very low humidity, and carry down is virtually non-existent. Moves to the right end up in disaster 98% of the time. The only solution is to move left and find more oil.
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Re: CAN'T MOVE. WHAT TO DO

Post by MegaMav »

RobMautner wrote:It probably is a difference in coasts, or at least weather conditions. Here in Vegas, arguably the bowling capitol of the world, very few bowlers use old, oil-soaked balls. Combine the use of overly-aggressive bowling balls (everyone's got to have the latest and greatest) with the very, very low humidity, and carry down is virtually non-existent. Moves to the right end up in disaster 98% of the time. The only solution is to move left and find more oil.
I wish we had a "chase it left" situation here.
It just doesnt happen with the oil soaked old balls from the early 2000s being used by guys to the right.
Shiny balls, tug tug tug, push push push.
Sometimes out of nowhere, slight mIss left, its a bucket or worse. You better miss big.

I show up with a ton of surface, usually 500 or 800 abralon and just chew up the hold they make.
It locks out the guys to the right, but its the only way to go to keep the scoring up for us to the left.

This wouldnt be a problem if more proprietors increased the slope of the house shot front to back.
Instead we get overblocks and this push problem. Everywhere.
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Re: CAN'T MOVE. WHAT TO DO

Post by stevespo »

There are times when our fronts get destroyed and other times it's definitely carry down. IMO, it all depends on who you're playing with, where they are lining up, what they are rolling, and how the paths intersect.

Some nights I can stand in the same spot, hit the same ~2 board target @ 15' and never move all night. Other nights, I am moving 2:1 left every 3 shots and have to change balls several times. Sometimes it's in between.

Sure, the weather has an effect, and our lane guy likes to "adjust" the volume from week to week and pair to pair. Open bowling during the day (after the morning oil) isn't helpful either. Our league has the bowlers with urethane to the right, plastic (mostly) down the middle, and plenty of 2 handers starting way left throwing sponges. You have to assess, adapt and be prepared for every possibility.

Back to the original question. I'm personally not a fan of the 4,5,6 ball arsenal for a THS (especially for new bowlers!!!), but I do realize there are times when 1-2 is not enough. Work on versatility. There are a variety of things you can do to mitigate loads of equipment with ball speed and hand position, and to me - that is where the fun part of the game really is. Work on 2-3 reactive balls to give you different shapes (continuous, traction, angular), and a plastic (urethane, etc) ball for spares.

Put in the time and learn to make the moves left and right as necessary. Learn to strike from each arrow, changing ball speed and rotation. Practice (solo or with friends) breaking down the condition and simulating what you see in league. Over time, it will get easier to recognize and then pick the right strategy.

Steve
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