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 Post subject: I need fitting help
 Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:03 am Post Number: #1 Post
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1. I feel the span is correct.
2. My fan line is 16deg.
3. Can some one explain why I should be using 5/16 left on middle and 9/16 right on ring lateral.
4. Why am I getting the cut mark on my middle finger
5. I can come out of this ball fine but I feel I'm squeezing to hold on to it.
6 I recently started drilling my thumb 90 deg to my oval angle, prior to this is was 1/4 rev. And 0 left right and some shots are ok some hang up and I'm not clean.


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 Post subject: Re: I need fitting help
 Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:25 pm Post Number: #2 Post
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1. It looks a little short to me because of the large bend in the knuckles shown in the bottom picture.
2. Ok.
3. Your lateral finer pitches should add up to at least 3/4" to allow sufficient depth before they intersect. The wiki guide fan chart pitches simulate pivoting the ball to your fan line and drill 3/8" left and 3/8" right. So for a 16* fan line, if you drill the fingers 5/16" left and 9/16" right off the centerline, they should be 3/8" left and 3/8" right when measured on the 16* fan line.
4. You're probably using too much forward/not enough reverse in the fingers. You may also be burying the fingers because the span is short.
5. This happens when the span is too short.
6. Are you drilling 1/4 reverse on your line PTOA (perpendicular to thumb oval angle)? If not, you may want to try.

To recap: lengthen the span and add reverse to the fingers and thumb, imo.

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Last edited by Arkansas on Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: I need fitting help
 Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:04 pm Post Number: #3 Post
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I have reverse in my fingers 1/2 in middle 5 /8 in ring away from grip center

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 Post subject: Re: I need fitting help
 Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:47 pm Post Number: #4 Post
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The only other thing I would think would cause that is the inserts being worn out or too tight. They don't appear to be excessively worn in the photo, so maybe you need to go up a size. Also, your hands look pretty dried out, which will make your skin crack easier.

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 Post subject: Re: I need fitting help
 Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:04 pm Post Number: #5 Post
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This may help some

Edit. Advice on starting reverse in thumb and finger pitches.

Should I drill the pitch 90deg to my oval angle I have a test ball to try this in


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 Post subject: Re: I need fitting help
 Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:13 pm Post Number: #6 Post
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Drill the thumb hole first, then check the span ON THE BALL with your thumb in and relaxed hand layed down on the ball.
Do NOT reach or stretch.
Dont use the fitting wheel, mark on the ball.

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 Post subject: Re: I need fitting help
 Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:05 pm Post Number: #7 Post
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Ok I came up with the same


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 Post subject: Re: I need fitting help
 Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:39 am Post Number: #8 Post
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Here is the test ball I used the 1/4 reverse 90 to oval line


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 Post subject: Re: I need fitting help
 Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:28 pm Post Number: #9 Post
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How'd it come off the hand?

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 Post subject: Re: I need fitting help
 Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:10 pm Post Number: #10 Post
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Awful middle finger feels to long I got nothing on the ball

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 Post subject: Re: I need fitting help
 Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:56 pm Post Number: #11 Post
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Can anyone recommend a good driller/fitter in Pittsburgh? These things are best done in person.

Nothing against you James, I know you’re one of the best.


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 Post subject: Re: I need fitting help
 Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:51 pm Post Number: #12 Post
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Rjf300 wrote:
Awful middle finger feels to long I got nothing on the ball

What all changes did you make?

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 Post subject: Re: I need fitting help
 Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:57 am Post Number: #13 Post
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MegaMav wrote:
Drill the thumb hole first, then check the span ON THE BALL with your thumb in and relaxed hand layed down on the ball.
Do NOT reach or stretch.
Dont use the fitting wheel, mark on the ball.



I completely agree. I don’t like the fitting wheel. I will use it to get an idea but then I mark the ball.

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 Post subject: Re: I need fitting help
 Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:15 pm Post Number: #14 Post
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Arkansas wrote:
3. Your lateral finer pitches should add up to at least 3/4" to allow sufficient depth before they intersect. The wiki guide fan chart pitches simulate pivoting the ball to your fan line and drill 3/8" left and 3/8" right. So for a 16* fan line, if you drill the fingers 5/16" left and 9/16" right off the centerline, they should be 3/8" left and 3/8" right when measured on the 16* fan line.


I could also add that the lateral finger pitches from the wikifit-chart only works correctly with the forward/reverse pitches from the same system. Basically if you add reverse to the fingers, you should also add little more left lateral tilt to the fingers (for RH-bowler).

Wikifit finger forward/reverse-pitch is mostly based on the span lenght (and flexibility+skin type+thumb lenght etc.). This means that for normal flexibility, your span lenght (4 1/8" if i understood correctly) equals 0" thumb reverse. This again gives you finger pitches of 1/8" forward to start with.

If you have 16* fan-angle on fingers and you want to add 1/2" reverse as per the fan-angle-line. Then you should actually add .481" reverse and .138" left pitch to the fingers, if measured from the standard T-line. :geek:

What is your oval angle? From the pics I estimated that its about 50*degree. This meant that if you drill 1/4" reverse 90* to oval line the converted pitches according to the standard T-grip-lines would be .192" left and .161" reverse. Your coke can overlay gave clear reference that you may actually need some pitch to the right for your thumb. This could also cause the symptoms you are describing. I would estimate something between .125" to .375" right pitch to start with.

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 Post subject: Re: I need fitting help
 Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:45 am Post Number: #15 Post
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Hello. I am new to the forum but not to the business so I hope you’ll indulge me by reading on. Many comments and sound advice have been given about the fit; I would like to comment on the injury itself.

I have personally experienced that type of skin injury. That type of wound is from imparting more tensile stress on that area of your finger skin than it can tolerate. I agree with an earlier poster that your skin appears to be very dry in your photos. When I had this problem years ago, it was very painful and would not heal as long as I continued to live the life of an avid bowler when not running the shop and working on pinsetters. My wound got worse and worse to the point that I had to do something other than work with my fit (believe me, as an operator, I was plugging, drilling and trying to solve the problem by addressing the grip too).

For some of us, bowling with a strong release, the use of rosin, finger grips, ball cleaner and exposure to not-so-healthy-for-the-skin substances (like Safe-T-Kleen if you’re a mechanic) will lead to this type of injury. As long as a sufferer of this condition bowls without addressing the mechanism of injury it will not go away - even if you find the magic pitch/span combo. Here’s what I did to get it to heal while continuing to bowl with the caveat that I am not a doctor so please proceed at your own risk:

1) Place a series of tiny drops of cyanoacrylate glue along the on side of the slit shaped wound and carefully push the skin on either side toward each other so as to glue the wound shut without gettng any glue in the wound (use as little as possible). This is will keep the wound closed and works surprisingly well. That open wound is an invitation to contamination much worse than the glue. By the way, CA glue was first used for such a purpose during The Vietnam war.

2) If you don’t have any, go pick up some Eucerin Advanced Repair Hand Cream or something similar. Twice a day use liberally on your hands especially after bowling. But wash your hands well in warm water first, not just to clean the skin but to hydrate and soften it with the cream locking it in. By the way, try not to paw anyone’s nice flat white painted walls and the like (BTDT, pissed soemone off).

3) Make sure you haven’t introduced any 1980’s urethane release finger-closing action in your release - especially with the reverse pitches and grips you are using (the more reverse, the more the grip has to stretch your skin as your fingers try to corner out - hyperextending at the joint - of the now oblique hole angle as you rotate through and over the top of the ball if you have a modern release) . The combination will create a huge amount of stress in that exact spot where your injury is. After imparting rotation to the ball, the finger must slide out of the grips with minimal friction so as not to stress the skin and rob the ball of any of the energy you just imparted. Its very easy to cause that hangup and stretch action with todays modern finger grips, more so if you use power-lift and/or vacu-grips. I have also found that some people instinctively respond to large amounts of reverse finger by grabbing a little bit because the deminished “hooked on the edge” feel.

As I entered into middle age, I have added reverse fingerpitch and vacu-grips my balls to accommodate encroaching arthritis. Being a recovering urethane releaser, I have managed to throw a ring finger grip downlane a few times until I learned to let the ball roll off my limp finger joints with that rubber wrist action. I liken that action to that of an old-style lawnmower pull-start - the really old non-recoil ones where you had the rope with the T-handle on one end and a knot on the other that you’d hook on the winding drum before you wrapped around for a pull (I think I’m showing my age here). You wouldn’t want that knot to NOT come out of that hook slot at the end of the pull when you’ve got that fire lit!

4) Consider using silicone grips or no grips until you heal (I hate silicone grips; they make me feel like I have my fingers somewhere greasy where one wouldn’t want them - cough)

I hope any of this helps. You never want to keep a good bowler down, especially when it is yourself.


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