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 Post subject: Stirring CS Hybrid (quick plug) with a bevel sander...
 Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:32 am Post Number: #1 Post
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This seems like it would create an enormous number of air bubbles thus effectively increasing the volume of the ball plug and lowering the cost.
Has anyone tried this? I presume this would be legal, since the compound is approved.

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 Post subject: Re: Stirring CS Hybrid (quick plug) with a bevel sander...
 Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:31 pm Post Number: #2 Post
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I dont plug balls so havent tried it but in a effort to be cheap, You'd probably get a bad rep for your plug work.

You'd be basically plugging with foam, it wouldn't be strong and durable. Most are trying to get rid of bubbles not create them.

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 Post subject: Re: Stirring CS Hybrid (quick plug) with a bevel sander...
 Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:47 pm Post Number: #3 Post
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I do a lot of plug work and I can tell you that you NEVER want air bubbles in your plug. It weakens the integrity of the plug and increases your chances of cracking. If I am doing plug work for a customer I use regular plug, not quick plug. I find it holds up long term better and comes out better for the customer on a finished product. I will use quick plug on something for myself if I want to try a different pitch or quick span change, but that's all I use it for. If a shop is knowingly trying to save a buck putting air bubbles in their plug, find a new shop immediately.

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 Post subject: Re: Stirring CS Hybrid (quick plug) with a bevel sander...
 Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:36 pm Post Number: #4 Post
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Hmm... I thought someone might twig to the possibilities of this technique.

I have another question:
How do you reduce the drilling angle on a symmetrical ball without a balance hole?

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 Post subject: Re: Stirring CS Hybrid (quick plug) with a bevel sander...
 Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:37 pm Post Number: #5 Post
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Maine Man wrote:
I do a lot of plug work and I can tell you that you NEVER want air bubbles in your plug. It weakens the integrity of the plug and increases your chances of cracking. If I am doing plug work for a customer I use regular plug, not quick plug. I find it holds up long term better and comes out better for the customer on a finished product. I will use quick plug on something for myself if I want to try a different pitch or quick span change, but that's all I use it for. If a shop is knowingly trying to save a buck putting air bubbles in their plug, find a new shop immediately.


This couldnt be stated any better.

I have mentioned this before, but I take more pride in plug work than anything else, and you wont find someone that is more passionate that I am when it comes to plug/resurfacing.

Saying this, quick plug should NEVER be used when it comes to plugging a bowling ball. Air bubbles, white ring outlines, air bubbles, etc are all products of using quick plug.

Using regular "24 hour" plug allows me to mix plug up like i'm making pancake batter. Since its a very slow curing process, it allows air bubbles to rise to the top and pop and color matching is very easy when you don't have to keep time on your mind.

If you want to use quick plug, use it for pitch changes or making thumb molds. Even if the customer does not care what his ball looks like, your work is being advertised when its sitting on a ball rack or it being thrown down the lane.


Last edited by MeNoRevs on Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Stirring CS Hybrid (quick plug) with a bevel sander...
 Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:38 pm Post Number: #6 Post
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snick wrote:
Hmm... I thought someone might twig to the possibilities of this technique.

I have another question:
How do you reduce the drilling angle on a symmetrical ball without a balance hole?


Start a different thread on this.


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 Post subject: Re: Stirring CS Hybrid (quick plug) with a bevel sander...
 Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:47 pm Post Number: #7 Post
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MeNoRevs wrote:

Start a different thread on this.


Actually, this question is the original hidden point of this thread.
I guess it is too well hidden, or not as obvious to others as I thought it would be. I think Mo might recognize it. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Stirring CS Hybrid (quick plug) with a bevel sander...
 Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:57 pm Post Number: #8 Post
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snick wrote:

Actually, this question is the original hidden point of this thread.
I guess it is too well hidden, or not as obvious to others as I thought it would be. I think Mo might recognize it. ;)


Mo's not here.


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 Post subject: Re: Stirring CS Hybrid (quick plug) with a bevel sander...
 Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:57 pm Post Number: #9 Post
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snick wrote:
How do you reduce the drilling angle on a symmetrical ball without a balance hole?


You dont.
You use an asymmetrical ball and lay it out to react like a symmetrical if you want a symmetrical like reaction with a drill angle tweak. Smaller Pin to PAPs can provide that look.

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 Post subject: Re: Stirring CS Hybrid (quick plug) with a bevel sander...
 Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:01 pm Post Number: #10 Post
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Quote:
This couldnt be stated any better.

I have mentioned this before, but I take more pride in plug work than anything else, and you wont find someone that is more passionate that I am when it comes to plug/resurfacing.

Saying this, quick plug should NEVER be used when it comes to plugging a bowling ball. Air bubbles, white ring outlines, air bubbles, etc are all products of using quick plug.

Using regular "24 hour" plug allows me to mix plug up like i'm making pancake batter. Since its a very slow curing process, it allows air bubbles to rise to the top and pop and color matching is very easy when you don't have to keep time on your mind.

If you want to use quick plug, use it for pitch changes or making thumb molds. Even if the customer does not care what his ball looks like, your work is being advertised when its sitting on a ball rack or it being thrown down the lane.]



OK, here is how I use Quick plug:
For very large holes (IT thumbs etc...), fill with CS Hybrid to 75% and let cure until cold. about two hours.
Top off the hole with high quality epoxy. (techline)
This cuts a full day off of the turnaround with no downside.

I do not use Quick plug for pitch changes (except with slugs): it will separate.
For changing pitches, I drill out the orginal hole 1/32" larger, at the new pitch angles.
Plug with 24 hour epoxy plug.
Drill new hole; the interior of the hole will be uniform and clean with no ugly patches of plug or separation issues. I take pride in my plug work too.

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 Post subject: Re: Stirring CS Hybrid (quick plug) with a bevel sander...
 Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:13 pm Post Number: #11 Post
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MegaMav wrote:

You dont.
You use an asymmetrical ball and lay it out to react like a symmetrical if you want a symmetrical like reaction with a drill angle tweak. Smaller Pin to PAPs can provide that look.


I spun a ball with a plugged balance hole and found that drill angle was reduced, compared to a blank drill with no balance hole.
Both balls are legal, but the plugged ball will roll somewhat earlier. And depending on the density of the plugging compound, and density/size/shape of the weight block, significantly earlier.

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 Post subject: Re: Stirring CS Hybrid (quick plug) with a bevel sander...
 Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:28 pm Post Number: #12 Post
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snick wrote:

I spun a ball with a plugged balance hole and found that drill angle was reduced, compared to a blank drill with no balance hole.
Both balls are legal, but the plugged ball will roll somewhat earlier. And depending on the density of the plugging compound, and density/size/shape of the weight block, significantly earlier.


That may be true, but no rational customer (getting rare these days!) is going to buy into you drilling and plugging a hole in a new ball to make that happen.

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 Post subject: Re: Stirring CS Hybrid (quick plug) with a bevel sander...
 Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:48 pm Post Number: #13 Post
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MegaMav wrote:

That may be true, but no rational customer (getting rare these days!) is going to buy into you drilling and plugging a hole in a new ball to make that happen.


That is true, and I have never actually drilled a balance hole then immediately plugged it.
But some might want experiment with these effects on an old ball.

One of the issues with the new balance holes rules is that I have a number of 230-240 average bowlers with largish arsenals with tuned reactions that will have to have the balance holes plugged.
If these guys pay good money to lose the corners, they are not going to be thrilled, especially if the guy on the next lane is throwing a brand new Halo with a 40 degree drill angle, which is curiously still legal.

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 Post subject: Re: Stirring CS Hybrid (quick plug) with a bevel sander...
 Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:37 pm Post Number: #14 Post
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Shift your tuning paradigm over to providing reactions via asymmetrics without a balance hole to mitigate these problems before August 2020.

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 Post subject: Re: Stirring CS Hybrid (quick plug) with a bevel sander...
 Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 2:17 am Post Number: #15 Post
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snick wrote:
This seems like it would create an enormous number of air bubbles thus effectively increasing the volume of the ball plug and lowering the cost.
Has anyone tried this? I presume this would be legal, since the compound is approved.


I smell what you're cooking, though that's a bit more extreme than what I had planned. I imagine you'd need at least a dedicated sander shaft for that, since trying to clean up quickly would be a hassle.

I was going to drill out with a 1.5" bit, then fill to about the cover with a quick setting plug, like you do, and finish with a nice plug for aesthetics. I was just going to stir quickly by hand, since I can never get that stuff to look good anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: Stirring CS Hybrid (quick plug) with a bevel sander...
 Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:38 am Post Number: #16 Post
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I struggled with finishing the CS hybrid for about a year. I was able to achieve some fairly epic color and pattern matches, but often had issues with fringing on the finished edge of the hole.

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 Post subject: Re: Stirring CS Hybrid (quick plug) with a bevel sander...
 Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:46 pm Post Number: #17 Post
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"Fluffy' plug can be created just by adding moisture...but that would be cheating.


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 Post subject: Re: Stirring CS Hybrid (quick plug) with a bevel sander...
 Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:52 am Post Number: #18 Post
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MegaMav wrote:

That may be true, but no rational customer (getting rare these days!) is going to buy into you drilling and plugging a hole in a new ball to make that happen.

Then I'm not a rational customer.
MegaMav wrote:
Shift your tuning paradigm over to providing reactions via asymmetrics without a balance hole to mitigate these problems before August 2020.


I have 7 more balls with balance holes.
This size arsenal was made possible by purchasing Symmetrical balls at cheap prices. With properly placed balance holes I turned them into $200+ bowling balls. Sucks for me trying to replace them.
snick wrote:
Hmm... I thought someone might twig to the possibilities of this technique.

I have another question:
How do you reduce the drilling angle on a symmetrical ball without a balance hole?


So,when you are plugging up balance holes how do you preserve the reaction?

I know drillers that will plug over the top of whatever you bring them.

I too have spun up a plugged ball and the drill angle didn't move all the way back to the thumb, It was quick plug and it developed alot of air bubbles. It was a humid day late August. Lucky for me the plug was porous and the drill angle didn't go all the way back to the thumb. So I am not so sad about that one.

I have 5 Motion holed balls 4 of which I would like to preserve the reaction. They are not easily replicated with Asymmetrical balls because the coverstock strengths are in the med to light oil range.

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