Second Game ball

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LPOliver
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Second Game ball

Post by LPOliver »

In the scratch league that I bowl in, I start with an old solid Storm Marvel. Without going into depth, I will just say that the Pin is above the ring finger's center line and about an inch to the right of my ring finger. The CG is three inches out and located 2 inches below the ring finger in what the driller calls a leveraged label drilling. On fresh oil this ball rips the pins and it looks like the pins are in a blender set on high.

By the third game it is time for my Storm pearl Breeze to be put in play. It has a 3.5 inch pin set about an inch to the right of the ring finger, but it is higher around a 0.5 inch above the edge of the ring finger. That placed the GG 2 inches below the finger and just a 0.25 inch to the right of the grips center line.

To me both balls have the same drilling and both balls are pin killers.
However, when the lanes open up too much for the Marvel they are still too slick for the Breeze.

So, I looked at the RG and Dif for both, 15#, balls and came to the opinion that a ball with specs between the two balls, which came out to be a RG of 2.535 and a dif of 0.030, would most likely work best in that second game position.

My logic was, if the specs are around the mid point the ball would be what I needed when the lanes want something between my two balls.

I found only Lane Masters made such a ball, but I know nothing about their Hornet other than it is a pearl.
Since I know Storm's R2S cover material, the way it grips the lane and takes cover mods (scruff or polish), I would like to hear how others view the Lane Master Hornet cover material as compared to the R2S material.

Since it appears that Lane Masters is not a widely used ball, I would also like to hear other thoughts on a ball for this void in my arsenal along with possible drilling layouts for those balls to obtain the same deep running look with a good back-end that my other two balls give me.

OK, let the opinions fly.

Speed 15.5
RPM 200 to 225
Tilt 15-20
Rotation 60-65
KittenLatch
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Re: Second Game ball

Post by KittenLatch »

First up, the numbers of a core don't tell the whole story (especially when you're looking at weaker cores like you are). You can't just take the median of the cores you currently use and expect a ball with those numbers to work, simply because the core in the breeze is virtually worthless, basically there to tick a box. :] Just thought you should know before doing anymore research and such.

As for your other questions, the Hornet's cover is nowhere near the strength of the cover on the breeze (which is good since it's a light/short oil ball), so if you were to buy a Hornet, you'd probably end up with a weaker ball than the breeze.

And as a recommendation, I'd say a Storm Crossroad would likely fit well between the Marvel and the Breeze, but I'm no expert in Storm gear (at least not to the extent of I am with Lanemasters equipment), so maybe best to wait on some more thoughts.
LPOliver
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Re: Second Game ball

Post by LPOliver »

Thank you for your input.

Since I made my post, I have found that the Lane Masters Evolution Pearl HD cover material is, according to bowlingballvault.com, a reactive urethane resin with a durometer D scale hardness around 78 to 79 to give it extra length.

This puts the Hornet in the same ballpark as the Storm Polar Ice. The Polar Ice uses Storms U1S urethane cover material, which is weaker than Storm's Reactor cover used on the Breeze (or so tech support at Storm tells me ), and the hardness factor is a little lower than the Hornet's at 73 to 75.

That said, it appears that the cover disqualifies the Hornet for the intended purpose, I was hoping to find that the cover was more in line with Storm's R2S cover material.

I wanted the higher RG to get more lope down the lane than that Marvel gives, but less lope than the Breeze, likewise I wanted a flare between the two balls so that the turn to the pocket was not overly strong nor too weak.

Trying to factor in the cover material along with the RG and Dif values turns the selection into a real three ring circus, pun intended. :?
LookingForALeftyWall
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Re: Second Game ball

Post by LookingForALeftyWall »

One of my teammates goes from an IQ, which is supposed to be the replacement for the Marvel (approximately same strength, shape,etc as the IQ), to a Storm Fringe as his 2nd/3rd game ball. It seems to work well for him.

In terms of Storm offerings, the following will go longer than the Marvel and I would classify them as good 2nd/3rd game balls in order of strength in relation to the Marvel:

Cross Road
Frantic
Fire Road
Fringe

These 4 balls will fit perfectly between the Marvel and the Breeze. You should consult with your local driller to see what's been working the best in your area and what he thinks will work best for you.
LPOliver
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Re: Second Game ball

Post by LPOliver »

Thank you for the response.

The IQ does replace the old solid Marvel, it has a newer cover which is stronger than the R2X used on the solid Marvel.

The Cross Road and the Fire Road both share the same Inverted Fe³ core that has a high RG of 2.56 and a high Diff of 0.052, but different cover materials. The Cross Road uses the R2S cover and the Fire Road the R2X cover.

The Frantic and Fringe use the Modified Centripetal™ Core that is more in line with the RG that I am looking for, but the Diff is 0.045. Nearly 50% more than I want.

The Frantic is a great ball, I have one that is drilled in the same manner as my Marvel, which replaced the Frantic for a lead ball on fresh oil.

In fact, I am sending Storm a request for a suggested layout for the Fringe that would yield the ball reaction I am looking for in a ball, because I know the R2S material. And other than the high Diff, which hopefully can be overcome with a weak drilling, it does match my other desired specs.
xclusix
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Re: Second Game ball

Post by xclusix »

what you are seeing here, looks to me, like the study of Coach Slowinsky on lane play and trying to match shapes for every step of the condition progress... read this, please:

http://bowlingknowledge.info/index.php? ... &Itemid=46" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

i would suggest going to some ball that provides a stronger overall motion, maybe a Defiant with a less aggresive surface than the OOB.

I think you are trying to go to weaker equipment overall, i suggest going with weaker cover preparation and stronger cored balls....

just my 2 cents....
RobMautner
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Re: Second Game ball

Post by RobMautner »

Louis:

I think you are right on looking at the rg, but unless you are a very high rev player, the differential should not mean a whole lot to you. Remember that differential provides flare (hook) potential. If a bowler's release can only create 3" of flare, then whether a ball has 4" or 6" of flare potential is irrelevant. I think that the Fringe would fit nicely between the Marvel and the Breeze. Match the layout on the Marvel in my opinion.

Rob Mautner
LPOliver
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Re: Second Game ball

Post by LPOliver »

Thank you xclusix,

You are correct in your assessment, I am trying to match up to the change in the lane and Coach Slowinsky's article in the Sept 2012 issue of BTM was a good one.

I not only watch my ball when I am on the lane, I watch the other bowlers, primarily those better than I. I do not just watch were they play and their balls reaction, I watch what balls are being used. I am also not above asking people about the balls layout. In fact, I changed the layout of my Marvel because I asked another bowler about his Marvel and if it would be OK with him for me to try it. Even with the larger span and loose thumb on his ball it was apparent that his layout was a much better fit for me than the one on my ball.

I am going for the weaker ball, because that is what the better scratch players, who have less hand control than the really good ones, are doing. In fact, I notice that when the lanes are calling for a ball I do not have I see a lot of old balls come out of the bag. Last night I watched as a 289 game was shot with a 2005 issue Hot Rod Hybrid and those with the weak balls were scoring while the strong balls were not.

However, a ball as you describe is not the wrong ball.

I have seen strong cored balls with cover mods make the pins dance, but that was by players with more game than I have :oops:

Thank you for your two cents, it does have value.
LPOliver
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Re: Second Game ball

Post by LPOliver »

Hi Rob,

Thanks for your gentle reminder that I do not have the hand to generate all of that flare.

I have in fact looked at the Fringe and I do like both the core and cover material. However, I am currently looking very hard at both Storms Natural and their Black & Silver Tropical Heat, both of which use the Turbine core with a RG of 2.55 and a dif of 0.038, as you most likely already know.

The Heat uses the Reactor hybrid reactive cover with a hardness of 74 - 76 D, opposed to the Natural's U2S pearl cover which has a 78 - 80 D rating.
I think the Reactor cover has better traction than the urethane cover to begin with, and that does not factor in the harder cover, but will check with Storm to see if I am correct.

Besides, I can obtain a Heat for nearly half the price of the Fringe, so if the Heat is the wrong choice and becomes a door stop, I will have close to half the price of a Fringe on hand. And if the Heat works I will have money for practice or other toys. :D

Thanks Rob for your input and all the other info you have provided.

Louis
RobMautner
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Re: Second Game ball

Post by RobMautner »

Go for it! 50% is 50%. Lay it out like the Marvel and don't be afraid to adjust the surface to get just the reaction that you are looking for.

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LPOliver
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Re: Second Game ball

Post by LPOliver »

Ever the teacher!

I took you at your word the first time you said to jump in with both feet and play with the surface, that is why I have a ball spinner down stairs along with enough abrasive material and polish to start a hardware store. :lol:

If it does not work, should i send you the door stop, or do you have enough of those already ;)

Louis
RobMautner
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Re: Second Game ball

Post by RobMautner »

I have plenty, but I think that you'll be able to make it work.

Rob Mautner
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Re: Second Game ball

Post by JohnP »

The Frantic and Fringe use the Modified Centripetal™ Core that is more in line with the RG that I am looking for, but the Diff is 0.045. Nearly 50% more than I want.
Both balls have symmetrical cores. So the % of the differential (flare) that is actually utilized in a layout is proportional to the pin to PAP distance with 3 3/8" being 100% and both 0" and 6 3/4" being 0%. With a little math and knowing what the pin to PAP distance is on your Marvel's layout you can very closely approximate the same flare with the stronger core.

Note: pin to PAP distances of less than 3/4" or more than 6" are not recommended. -- JohnP
LPOliver
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Re: Second Game ball

Post by LPOliver »

Thank you John,

It is always good to recall basics.

Some people can loft the ball out three feet in front of them and somehow maintain control of the ball and others can increase their ball speed by 2 or 3 mph, I can not.

Because my speed is on the low side, I use a long pin to get down the lane, I start pulling the ball when I speed up too much.

This is why I wanted to go for a ball with a less flare generating dif: it allows me to stay within my comfort zone and to keep the pin long with out being overly long.

If I had better speed control I would play my Frantic, which has a weaker cover and a weaker core than my Marvel, but I cannot play the entire 2nd game with it, around the 5th frame I am at my max left and the ball does not have a good entry angle; the fact of the matter is that it is too strong for my speed at that point, in fact after the first 3 or 4 frames it is a very good ball to play in the first game with the oil conditions used in my league. However the Frantic does travel with me to other houses for use as a first game ball, but then I still have the second game issue.

Sometimes weaker is better and with me it is my best option.

Thanks again and enjoy the game.
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Re: Second Game ball

Post by The Kid »

If you do not use the Frantic much, try adding a P1 hole to that. The core/cover combination on that thing makes it more aggressive and much sharper than one would think.

Do you know your PAP? It's very easy to measure and would go a long way in making sure you get what you want. Otherwise we're just guessing.

But, if we are going to guess and you don't want to add a balance hole to the Frantic, then:

-The Heat and Fringe are good choices, but the Fringe is very similar to the Frantic
-Drill either ball with the pin about a 1/4" lower and 3/4" to 1" further left than your Marvel, put the CG wherever as long as the ball is legal (target 3/4 oz side weight, with little-to-no finger weight)
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Re: Second Game ball

Post by RobMautner »

Gotta say... this is the last place I ever expected to see a reference to finger weight and side weight!

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Re: Second Game ball

Post by The Kid »

RobLV1 wrote:Gotta say... this is the last place I ever expected to see a reference to finger weight and side weight!

Rob Mautner
I suppose I should have added:

"In order to allow for the addition of a balance hole to fine tune the reaction."

That side and finger weight combination would allow him to add anywhere from a P1 to weaken the reaction to a Double Thumb to strengthen the reaction. I expect the P1 to be most likely since he said his most common problem is over reaction.
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Re: Second Game ball

Post by RobMautner »

Okay, that works. I tend to forget that the USBC refuses to admit that static weights are meaningless (unless you have a rev rate higher than Jason Belmonte and throw the ball 14 mph), so drillers have to consider what to do to make a ball "legal." Give me a break!
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Re: Second Game ball

Post by LPOliver »

Thanks for the input Kid. I will file that one away along with some other pieces of info that I have gathered here and elsewhere.

The jury came back with a nod for the Black/Purple Tropical Heat. It won out over the Blue/Silver Heat based upon the 4000-grit Abralon cover finish which can be changed if need be. Of course the 1500-grit Polished cover of the Blue/Silver could also be changed just as easily, but the OOB cover of the Black/Purple is the better choice for the purpose in mind.

Thanks to all.
After a few games with the new ball, which will not arrive in time for the next league match, I will tell you if it is a hit or a door stop.

Remember, one wants to knock these pins down, merely hitting them does not score. :lol:
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