Roto Grip Defiant or Brunswick Nexus Solid
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- dunnlw
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Roto Grip Defiant or Brunswick Nexus Solid
Hi all - Is it raining bowling balls in 2011 or is it just me? I thought I had read somewhere that several of the manufacturers were going to reduce the number of new releases, It must have just been a dream.
Anyway, I was just looking to see what the general consensus of the group is when comparing the Defiant to the Nexus Solid. I realize the Nexus has been released, so there are more with experience with it than just the staff bowlers. The Defiant won't be out until January 10, that said.....I know some of you have thrown both.
Both companies have been making some really strong covers, and the numbers on the balls are basically identical. I suppose the Nexus has a tad bit lower RG and Diff, but they both have the same MB strength. Both are marketed to NEED oil to perform.
I've seen both balls, and I have to say just based on OOB appearance IMO the Nexus looks like it wants to soak up some oil a bit more than the cover on the Defiant, but looks can be deceiving. They even have very similar color schemes.
Which one creates more friction in the oil? Is there any difference in the intended hook shape design? Is there anyone that has been on the fence about needing a strong oil ball that was just about to buy the Nexus, but decided to wait for the Defiant now?
I just got a Critical Theory after having not thrown a Roto Grip ball since the Rogue Cell, and I have never had a Brunswick ball that grabs the lane like the CT. I think the reason I turned my back on Roto Grip was somehow I felt cheated by the Rogue Cell. The last time I ever threw the ball I came up 12 pins short of setting the new record for youngest female to bowl a 300. http://www.rotogrip.com/community/story ... nityid=798 I know.....it wasn't the ball. The CT has got me over that mental block.
I look forward to reading your debate, well at least I hope the question sparks one to read.
Anyway, I was just looking to see what the general consensus of the group is when comparing the Defiant to the Nexus Solid. I realize the Nexus has been released, so there are more with experience with it than just the staff bowlers. The Defiant won't be out until January 10, that said.....I know some of you have thrown both.
Both companies have been making some really strong covers, and the numbers on the balls are basically identical. I suppose the Nexus has a tad bit lower RG and Diff, but they both have the same MB strength. Both are marketed to NEED oil to perform.
I've seen both balls, and I have to say just based on OOB appearance IMO the Nexus looks like it wants to soak up some oil a bit more than the cover on the Defiant, but looks can be deceiving. They even have very similar color schemes.
Which one creates more friction in the oil? Is there any difference in the intended hook shape design? Is there anyone that has been on the fence about needing a strong oil ball that was just about to buy the Nexus, but decided to wait for the Defiant now?
I just got a Critical Theory after having not thrown a Roto Grip ball since the Rogue Cell, and I have never had a Brunswick ball that grabs the lane like the CT. I think the reason I turned my back on Roto Grip was somehow I felt cheated by the Rogue Cell. The last time I ever threw the ball I came up 12 pins short of setting the new record for youngest female to bowl a 300. http://www.rotogrip.com/community/story ... nityid=798 I know.....it wasn't the ball. The CT has got me over that mental block.
I look forward to reading your debate, well at least I hope the question sparks one to read.
Ashley N. Dunn
Age 16
I Bowl
Member of Junior Team USA Developmental Squad
State/National/International Champion
High Game 300
High Series 770 (44 700 Series To Date)
Age 16
I Bowl
Member of Junior Team USA Developmental Squad
State/National/International Champion
High Game 300
High Series 770 (44 700 Series To Date)
Re: Roto Grip Defiant or Brunswick Nexus Solid
Video of the Defiant are being released slowly but from the few I have seen show that the Defiant is the strongest Roto Grip ball to date. It plays about 4 boards stronger than the Critical Theory.
It jumps off the dry like none I've seen. I would say it out hooks the Nano.
It jumps off the dry like none I've seen. I would say it out hooks the Nano.
- scotts33
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Re: Roto Grip Defiant or Brunswick Nexus Solid
Just wondering since Mo has given you a lot of help here why you don't consider the Hook/R rather than the other two balls? It would seem all three would be close in strength depending on layout/surface.
- Mo Pinel
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Re: Roto Grip Defiant or Brunswick Nexus Solid
Thanks, scotts33. She already has one in her possession. I'm working with her dad on exactly what layout to use, so it fits perfectly in her arsenal. It's her first MoRich ball. All the balls she's considering are heavy oil balls. Add the DestroyR and you have all the good heavy oil balls currently on the market. You know as well as I do that it takes time, or thorough testing, for the subtleties of each ball to become apparent. We do know that the nano is the smoothest of all. I believe there's the most definition at the breakpoint in the CT and the HookR. I believe the others are in the middle in terms of reaction at the breakpoint. Let's see.scotts33 wrote:Just wondering since Mo has given you a lot of help here why you don't consider the Hook/R rather than the other two balls? It would seem all three would be close in strength depending on layout/surface.
Rest In Peace (1942-2021)
- scotts33
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Re: Roto Grip Defiant or Brunswick Nexus Solid
Cool Mo! I'd use more of your stuff if they'd ever put down what we call lane conditioner in some parts of the universe....in my area.Mo Pinel wrote: Thanks, scotts33. She already has one in her possession. I'm working with her dad on exactly what layout to use, so it fits perfectly in her arsenal. It's her first MoRich ball. All the balls she's considering are heavy oil balls. Add the DestroyR and you have all the good heavy oil balls currently on the market. You know as well as I do that it takes time, or thorough testing, for the subtleties of each ball to become apparent. We do know that the nano is the smoothest of all. I believe there's the most definition at the breakpoint in the CT and the HookR. I believe the others are in the middle in terms of reaction at the breakpoint. Let's see.
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Re: Roto Grip Defiant or Brunswick Nexus Solid
We were all thinking it. You deserve a Brownie point for saying it.scotts33 wrote:Just wondering since Mo has given you a lot of help here why you don't consider the Hook/R rather than the other two balls? It would seem all three would be close in strength depending on layout/surface.
- Mo Pinel
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Re: Roto Grip Defiant or Brunswick Nexus Solid
scotts33 wrote: Cool Mo! I'd use more of your stuff if they'd ever put down what we call lane conditioner in some parts of the universe....in my area.
Maybe soon!
Rest In Peace (1942-2021)
- dunnlw
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Re: Roto Grip Defiant or Brunswick Nexus Solid
I couldn't wait, and decided I needed something with a slightly different look. I got the Nexus drilled before the HookR. Nexus is a great ball, it will fit right where I need it in my line up.elgavachon wrote: We were all thinking it. You deserve a Brownie point for saying it.
I'm glad I got the HookR though. Threw my first complete game with it tonight....299, 7 pin would not go down.
You were right that I should give some of Mo's stuff a try with all of the help he, and many of you have given me on this site. I hope that I can count on continued support, it has been very much appreciated. I hope to be able to give back through the forum at some point in the future, but as relates to my question directly I don't think your response was accurate.
The Defiant is still unknown, but sure it should be strong. We know the Nexus is strong, but I think there are some things about different ball designs that even designer layouts can't change. I am only 14, and have learned that from reading many posts, and a lot of experience on the lanes. You can't make the Nexus do what the HookR does, and I don't really think the HookR will do what the Nexus does. We don't really want them to do we?
There are a lot of balls in the pro-shops to chose from. No doubt many are very much the same, but every now and then a ball comes along that sets itself apart from the others. Look at the success of the Storm HyRoad as one example. I know there aren't a lot of EBI fans here because of their covers, but the Outburst has been, and is an incredibly versatile ball. If you've never thrown one...I highly recommend it. It is a lot of ball for the money. Most shops around here couldn't keep them in stock.
I think right now we may have 3 or 4 balls that are special. From my initial experience (and I've thrown A LOT of different balls) the HookR certainly seems like it is 1! (I want brownie points).
No disrespect intended, I just thought this might be a learning opportunity for some about ball designs, or at least give them cause for more thought. Sorry if it seems it came at your expense.
Happy Holidays Everyone.
Ashley N. Dunn
Age 16
I Bowl
Member of Junior Team USA Developmental Squad
State/National/International Champion
High Game 300
High Series 770 (44 700 Series To Date)
Age 16
I Bowl
Member of Junior Team USA Developmental Squad
State/National/International Champion
High Game 300
High Series 770 (44 700 Series To Date)
- ICURNVS
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Re: Roto Grip Defiant or Brunswick Nexus Solid
For a 14 yr old you post the most mature thought out posts \ replys I have ever read, it is quite refreshing.
I just wish my daughter would of had the same desire to be a great bowler as you have. She was a 190 bowler in high school and that was giving minimum effort, if she would of had your drive who knows what she could of acomplished.
Back on subject, I had not heard of the Defiant untill I read this post which got me looking around... My bag is missing a strong symetrical and this might fit in real nice. I have been kicking around picking up both Nexus balls but the more read \ watch on the Defiant, with my game 2 good symetricals will fit the bag better.
I just wish my daughter would of had the same desire to be a great bowler as you have. She was a 190 bowler in high school and that was giving minimum effort, if she would of had your drive who knows what she could of acomplished.
Back on subject, I had not heard of the Defiant untill I read this post which got me looking around... My bag is missing a strong symetrical and this might fit in real nice. I have been kicking around picking up both Nexus balls but the more read \ watch on the Defiant, with my game 2 good symetricals will fit the bag better.
** UPDATED STATS AS OF 6-06-19 **
Right Hand
PAP 4 1/2-> 3/4 up
ROTATION 20 - 30
TILT 11.5*
MPH 14.5-15.2 MONITOR
RPM 350-375
RIP Visionary Bowling Products.....
Right Hand
PAP 4 1/2-> 3/4 up
ROTATION 20 - 30
TILT 11.5*
MPH 14.5-15.2 MONITOR
RPM 350-375
RIP Visionary Bowling Products.....
- scotts33
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Re: Roto Grip Defiant or Brunswick Nexus Solid
Just an FYI.......The Defiant is an asymmetrical in 15 it's lower Rg 2.49 .054 .017I had not heard of the Defiant untill I read this post which got me looking around... My bag is missing a strong symetrical and this might fit in real nice.
http://rotogrip.com/products/balls/ball.asp?ballid=135" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- MegaMav
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- ICURNVS
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Re: Roto Grip Defiant or Brunswick Nexus Solid
my mistake.... Looking at the core it looked symetrical to me..
you know what they say about assume.....
you know what they say about assume.....
** UPDATED STATS AS OF 6-06-19 **
Right Hand
PAP 4 1/2-> 3/4 up
ROTATION 20 - 30
TILT 11.5*
MPH 14.5-15.2 MONITOR
RPM 350-375
RIP Visionary Bowling Products.....
Right Hand
PAP 4 1/2-> 3/4 up
ROTATION 20 - 30
TILT 11.5*
MPH 14.5-15.2 MONITOR
RPM 350-375
RIP Visionary Bowling Products.....
- BackInTheGame
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Re: Roto Grip Defiant or Brunswick Nexus Solid
Since the Defiant is not symmetrical, perhaps the Agressive Motion or the Jet Altitude would fit your need? Both are strong covered symmetricals.ICURNVS wrote:
Back on subject, I had not heard of the Defiant untill I read this post which got me looking around... My bag is missing a strong symetrical and this might fit in real nice. I have been kicking around picking up both Nexus balls but the more read \ watch on the Defiant, with my game 2 good symetricals will fit the bag better.
- Mo Pinel
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Re: Roto Grip Defiant or Brunswick Nexus Solid
It's elliptical with ridges.ICURNVS wrote:my mistake.... Looking at the core it looked symetrical to me..
you know what they say about assume.....
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- BCP27
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Re: Roto Grip Defiant or Brunswick Nexus Solid
Don't leave out the Marvel, that has the original Virtual Gravity's cover on a low rg high diff symmetric core, OOB 2000 abralon.BackInTheGame wrote:
Since the Defiant is not symmetrical, perhaps the Agressive Motion or the Jet Altitude would fit your need? Both are strong covered symmetricals.
Mo, please explain what they mean their talk about this core's different axis migration. I want to know how this effects the motion!
- ICURNVS
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Re: Roto Grip Defiant or Brunswick Nexus Solid
I also like the part in the video where the guy pretty much says most of you are too dumb to understand axis migration so just watch the ball roll.BCP27 wrote:
** UPDATED STATS AS OF 6-06-19 **
Right Hand
PAP 4 1/2-> 3/4 up
ROTATION 20 - 30
TILT 11.5*
MPH 14.5-15.2 MONITOR
RPM 350-375
RIP Visionary Bowling Products.....
Right Hand
PAP 4 1/2-> 3/4 up
ROTATION 20 - 30
TILT 11.5*
MPH 14.5-15.2 MONITOR
RPM 350-375
RIP Visionary Bowling Products.....
- MathIsTruth
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Re: Roto Grip Defiant or Brunswick Nexus Solid
ICURNVS wrote:
I also like the part in the video where the guy pretty much says most of you are too dumb to understand axis migration so just watch the ball roll.
Where is this video you guys are talking about? Can you provide a link or did i miss it in an earlier post? Thanks..
Last edited by MathIsTruth on March 18th, 2021, 3:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
- ICURNVS
- Member
- Posts: 457
- Joined: December 28th, 2010, 9:28 pm
- THS Average: 220
- Positive Axis Point: 4 1/2 -> 3/4 up
- Speed: 16.8 Monitor
- Rev Rate: 350
- Axis Tilt: 11
- Axis Rotation: 30
- Heavy Oil Ball: Zen Master
- Medium Oil Ball: Power Torq / UFO Alert / Honey Badger Revival
- Light Oil Ball: Marvel Pearl / Stellar
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- Location: Canton, Ohio
Re: Roto Grip Defiant or Brunswick Nexus Solid
Right at the start the guy is showing the core and explaining how the shape is going to give it a unique axis migration "which you probably dont understand" or something like that
[youtube][/youtube]
[youtube][/youtube]
** UPDATED STATS AS OF 6-06-19 **
Right Hand
PAP 4 1/2-> 3/4 up
ROTATION 20 - 30
TILT 11.5*
MPH 14.5-15.2 MONITOR
RPM 350-375
RIP Visionary Bowling Products.....
Right Hand
PAP 4 1/2-> 3/4 up
ROTATION 20 - 30
TILT 11.5*
MPH 14.5-15.2 MONITOR
RPM 350-375
RIP Visionary Bowling Products.....
- Mo Pinel
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Re: Roto Grip Defiant or Brunswick Nexus Solid
Before MathIsTruth gets started on this, I'd like to comment. I believe it's an excellent ball and an excellent video. I have only one minor issue. ALL bowling balls with migrate along the RG contour of the Bowler's PAP. That's governed by the laws of the universe. Therefore, in order to create a unique migration path, you must create a unique RG contour for that ball. ALL balls have RG contours that use the low and high RG axis as the centroid for the RG contours. The higher the differential ratio, the more of the RG contours that are centered around the high RG axis, and the flatter those ellipses. That's just pure science and math. I will test the migratory path of the Defiant, but I believe it still follows those laws of motion. The ridges on this 3 dimensional elliptical core emulate some of those contours. The Defiant, from all reports, has a strong midlane breakpoint with definition and a strong cover. Microspheres do add friction because they have been used before. Not knowing the composition of those microspheres, I can't comment on how unique they are to this ball.ICURNVS wrote:Right at the start the guy is showing the core and explaining how the shape is going to give it a unique axis migration "which you probably dont understand" or something like that
[youtube][/youtube]
In conclusion, the Defiant is an excellent heavy oil ball. From the initial reports I get, it's in the area of the DestroyR in shape and hook. The BJI gave the DestroyR its' first 60 hook rating ever.
Good luck to Roto Grip on the success of what appears to be from first reports a very good heavy oil ball.
Rest In Peace (1942-2021)
- ICURNVS
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- Positive Axis Point: 4 1/2 -> 3/4 up
- Speed: 16.8 Monitor
- Rev Rate: 350
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- Axis Rotation: 30
- Heavy Oil Ball: Zen Master
- Medium Oil Ball: Power Torq / UFO Alert / Honey Badger Revival
- Light Oil Ball: Marvel Pearl / Stellar
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Re: Roto Grip Defiant or Brunswick Nexus Solid
Mo the process used for the cover stock on this ball, the nano and the Nexus line is it the same process just worded different or completly different processes that yield similar results?
Do you see this becoming the "norm" for future "heavy oil" balls industry wide?
Do you see this becoming the "norm" for future "heavy oil" balls industry wide?
** UPDATED STATS AS OF 6-06-19 **
Right Hand
PAP 4 1/2-> 3/4 up
ROTATION 20 - 30
TILT 11.5*
MPH 14.5-15.2 MONITOR
RPM 350-375
RIP Visionary Bowling Products.....
Right Hand
PAP 4 1/2-> 3/4 up
ROTATION 20 - 30
TILT 11.5*
MPH 14.5-15.2 MONITOR
RPM 350-375
RIP Visionary Bowling Products.....