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 Post subject: Need ball for broken down, second shift, late block, fried
 Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 11:59 pm Post Number: #1 Post
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Right now, I am bowling at an older house - wood with Guardian to out past the arrows. After getting my grip modified and a drilling recommendation from Mo for a ball I already had, I drilled a Mojave 60 x 3 1/4 x 30 with a P3. My stats are below.

Kudos to Mo - The ball is awesome, and I am having success with it if the pattern is reasonably fresh or there is some oil. But as the oil transitions - and it goes away quickly on that surface during a league - I start having issues with splits. On 3 separate league outings, I have great first and second games and terrible third games.

I think what I am looking to do is make the Mojave my benchmark ball for this house. So from there, I am looking for a ball to step 'down to' from it.

What do people use as a ball for the later frames when the benchmark ball is coming up on the pocket? I don't really have the hand to chase the oil inside and make big moves left late into the night. I am more comfortable playing around the track, or I can move outside and play up 5.

If I were to get something like a Brunswick Slingshot, a Lane #1 Chainsaw (the original one), a Hammer Red and Purple Backlash, something like that - what kind of specs am I after and what drilling would I opt for, intending to use it for later frames after starting with the Mojave?

Thanks

Stats:
Tilt: 13 - 15
Rotation: 65 - 70
Speed: 15.3 - 16 off hand
Revs: 180 - 200

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 Post subject: Re: Need ball for broken down, second shift, late block, fried
 Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 12:22 am Post Number: #2 Post
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SLINGSHOT

or, if it suits your fancy

Natural Pearl

I used to bowl on wood w/guardian. I bowled a few 10 gamers and they got UGLY around game 7. If you couldn't play 5 arrow or left of that it was no good. I usually had my best look with a Lame 1 XXXL playing 20 to 13.

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My stats:
Rev rate: 360
Axis tilt: 17*
Axis rotation: 55
Speed: 14.5-15 at the decks
PAP: 5 3/4 right, 5/8 up


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 Post subject: Re: Need ball for broken down, second shift, late block, fried
 Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:10 pm Post Number: #3 Post
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you need to play what the lane man gives you. You say you dont have the hand to play inside? Just drill up an aggressive ball for the third game and play inside with it. You shouldnt have to worry about a lack of hand.


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 Post subject: Re: Need ball for broken down, second shift, late block, fried
 Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:38 am Post Number: #4 Post
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Thanks for that advice, Jim. I'm willing to try anything at this point.

Its not as much about playing what the lane man gives us as it is about dealing with that crappy surface.

Those having the most success this year on that surface throw straight balls, landing on about 12-13 and rolling straight to the pocket at 17 with no hook. Unfortunately, I didn't learn to bowl that way, and I don't know if I could even play plastic that way. The majority of those trying to hook the ball in this house are having fits this year, especially toward the end of the night. Most people's averages are down at least 15 pins this year from prior years. Personally, I am more than 20 pins down from a summer league this year - in the same house, on the same lanes, with the same equipment. So they are doing something different.

I am almost definitely bowling somewhere else next winter. But for this year, I am committed to finishing this league out.

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 Post subject: Re: Need ball for broken down, second shift, late block, fried
 Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:07 am Post Number: #5 Post
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I'll know more about the Slingshot in a week or so. I'm drilling one for a very heavy handed player, with a ton of speed too.

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My stats:
Rev rate: 360
Axis tilt: 17*
Axis rotation: 55
Speed: 14.5-15 at the decks
PAP: 5 3/4 right, 5/8 up


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 Post subject: Re: Need ball for broken down, second shift, late block, fried
 Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:34 pm Post Number: #6 Post
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I bowl on similar lane conditions in my league. I would recommend another mojave with a more contolled drilling something like 80 2 1/4 45. Maybe even a slingshot. Don't drill a lane #1 chainsaw a bowler in my league has one and it is controlled in the backend, but to early in the fronts and mids. He asked me for recommendations last week because he is disappointed with this ball.


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 Post subject: Re: Need ball for broken down, second shift, late block, fried
 Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:48 am Post Number: #7 Post
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I like the idea of another Mojave. I was also thinking since the one I have has a P3 balance hole, which increases dynamics by something like 20% according to Mo, maybe I just use the same layout again on another Mojave and drill the second one with no P3 hole. If a balance hole is required, I think the P2 is neutral.

If Mo or Kelly or one of the other geniuses sees this and has time, I am wondering about how to translate the layout Mo gave me to future balls.

My stats (from this site)are:
Tilt: 13 - 15
Rotation: 65 - 70
Speed: 15.3 - 16 off hand
Revs: 180 - 200
PAP is 4 1/2 across, 3/4 up.
Intended surface is old wood with Guardian.
Oil pattern ranges from the light side of medium to totally broken down.

The layout given to me for the Mojave was 60 x 3 1/4 x 30, with a P3 balance hole.

So the question is, if I am intending to make the Mojave my "benchmark ball" for this condition, where do I go next as far as a ball to go up to from there or a ball to go down to from there, and how does that layout translate? Pretend for the sake of argument that I have no other bowling balls except the Mojave and a plastic spare ball.

Is something like Perpetual Motion too much ball to go up to? What do you think of the Brunswick Damage, which is advertised as being for lighter conditions?

Thanks for all the advice

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 Post subject: Re: Need ball for broken down, second shift, late block, fried
 Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:39 am Post Number: #8 Post
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billw212 wrote:
I like the idea of another Mojave. I was also thinking since the one I have has a P3 balance hole, which increases dynamics by something like 20% according to Mo, maybe I just use the same layout again on another Mojave and drill the second one with no P3 hole. If a balance hole is required, I think the P2 is neutral.

If Mo or Kelly or one of the other geniuses sees this and has time, I am wondering about how to translate the layout Mo gave me to future balls.

My stats (from this site)are:
Tilt: 13 - 15
Rotation: 65 - 70
Speed: 15.3 - 16 off hand
Revs: 180 - 200
PAP is 4 1/2 across, 3/4 up.
Intended surface is old wood with Guardian.
Oil pattern ranges from the light side of medium to totally broken down.

The layout given to me for the Mojave was 60 x 3 1/4 x 30, with a P3 balance hole.

So the question is, if I am intending to make the Mojave my "benchmark ball" for this condition, where do I go next as far as a ball to go up to from there or a ball to go down to from there, and how does that layout translate? Pretend for the sake of argument that I have no other bowling balls except the Mojave and a plastic spare ball.

Is something like Perpetual Motion too much ball to go up to? What do you think of the Brunswick Damage, which is advertised as being for lighter conditions?

Thanks for all the advice


I very much like the idea of adding another Mojave to the arsenal. Although, I'm sure a Slingshot, or a Natural will easily fill that space as well.

Something tells me the Perpetual Motion could be a little too much ball to go under a Mojave, but Mo could tell you for sure whether that's the case or not. The Damage I'm sure will fitter better just above the Mojave as well.

If you go with a Natural, or Slingshot, use the same layout as you currently have on the Mojave. You should be able to use surface to create the separation you need.

If you go with another Mojave, I think 60 / 2.5 / 40 (1.5:1, 100 total, weaker pin) should give you a slightly smoother read off the spot. The weaker pin should help smooth out the reaction a little more as well. This SHOULD allow you to stay where you're at without too much of a change. You might to take the surface down a little (around 4000) just to add a little more separation, if need be.

Wait on Mo. He has a much better instinct for this stuff than I do.

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 Post subject: Re: Need ball for broken down, second shift, late block, fried
 Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 2:33 pm Post Number: #9 Post
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Thanks Kelly!

I am thinking of totally rebuilding the arsenal, using the Mojave as the benchmark ball or starting point to build around. Didn't want to mess with the Mojave's surface (yet) because I have been having lots of success with it in the first 2 games and its one of the few I have that is working well as of now.

The difficulty is in finding another Mojave at the moment. It is a discontinued ball now and no one has it. I was actually bidding on a second Mojave on ebay last night, got outbid in the last minute. If I am able to come up with a second one, I am open to different drilling, but might it also make sense to try the same drilling, but with either a P2 or even a P1 instead of a P3 balance hole? You guys have given me great info so far, so I will keep going with what you tell me.

I am after controlled and arc-y type reactions as opposed to "hockey stick" shaped stuff.

I was actually thinking of Perpetual Motion as a ball to go above the Mojave. I don't know much about Perpetual Motion, other than what I read on the Morich site. It says it is the first symmetric core ball from Morich. The shape of that core reminds me of the Brunswick Monster series. I think some of the Quantums also had a core like that. I had one or two of the Monster series, and they were nice, even-rolling pieces. Why I am asking about that one.

Thanks again!

Bill

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 Post subject: Re: Need ball for broken down, second shift, late block, fried
 Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:13 pm Post Number: #10 Post
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I believe the layout I gave your for a second Mojave will give you same length as you have with the current Mojave, but a much smoother read at the spot due to the longer VAL angle and weaker pin.

The Perpetual Motion will fit above the Mojave very nicely.

Good luck with the Mojave. I think if you go with a Slingshot with the same layout as your Mojave, then tweak the surface, you will get a good progression. Unfortunately, I don't know that much about the ball, so it's hard to say for certain, which is why I would prefer you waited for Mo's input.

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 Post subject: Re: Need ball for broken down, second shift, late block, fried
 Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:58 am Post Number: #11 Post
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Bowlingball.com has 16lb Mojave's for $69

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 Post subject: Re: Need ball for broken down, second shift, late block, fried
 Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:18 am Post Number: #12 Post
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I would consider adding a Response, Put a control drill on it and take it to 1000 grit. The control drilling will give you the look you are after.
Right now there are several " buy now" offers on Ebay for $59.95. Very reputable seller.


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 Post subject: Re: Need ball for broken down, second shift, late block, fried
 Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:08 pm Post Number: #13 Post
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elgavachon wrote:
I would consider adding a Response, Put a control drill on it and take it to 1000 grit. The control drilling will give you the look you are after.
Right now there are several " buy now" offers on Ebay for $59.95. Very reputable seller.



yea better than the above.

I bowl on same shot as you do too 2nd shift I drill a sahara 90 x 2 1/4 x 40 and drill the fingers 3.5 deep and ease the backend and it work pretty good for me.


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 Post subject: Re: Need ball for broken down, second shift, late block, fri
 Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 4:27 pm Post Number: #14 Post
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Found out something this week that I think makes a difference. The Guardian surface in the first 15 feet is at least 6 years old, maybe older. I read on the Jayhawk site where it says that Guardian's life expectancy is 5 to 6 years, and centers that choose not to replace it after that start having problems with lower scores because it does not hold oil properly. May well be the case here - scores and averages are down across the board, and as I said, the people having the most success are throwing straight balls. The logical explanation is that we are all having problems getting the ball through the first 15 feet.

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 Post subject: Re: Need ball for broken down, second shift, late block, fri
 Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 4:37 pm Post Number: #15 Post
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Yeah, that's not gonna help you out much, is it. I would definitely not go with a Response (assuming elgavachon meant a LevRG Response) because that is a strong, rolly ball.

I would say a Mojave is your best bet.

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 Post subject: Re: Need ball for broken down, second shift, late block, fri
 Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 5:18 pm Post Number: #16 Post
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kellytehuna wrote:
Yeah, that's not gonna help you out much, is it. I would definitely not go with a Response (assuming elgavachon meant a LevRG Response) because that is a strong, rolly ball.

I would say a Mojave is your best bet.

There is really a big difference between how the response reacts between an up the back bowler and someone who is rev dominant. I my kids all have one. I used it for a dry lane ball when I was up the back. Qualified in Vegas on a dry shot with it. Barely a step up over the mojave.Check the posts on it here on this forum. Mo always recommends changing it to 1000.


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 Post subject: Re: Need ball for broken down, second shift, late block, fri
 Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 5:32 pm Post Number: #17 Post
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elgavachon wrote:
kellytehuna wrote:
Yeah, that's not gonna help you out much, is it. I would definitely not go with a Response (assuming elgavachon meant a LevRG Response) because that is a strong, rolly ball.

I would say a Mojave is your best bet.

There is really a big difference between how the response reacts between an up the back bowler and someone who is rev dominant. I my kids all have one. I used it for a dry lane ball when I was up the back. Qualified in Vegas on a dry shot with it. Barely a step up over the mojave.Check the posts on it here on this forum. Mo always recommends changing it to 1000.

Kelly is right about the ball. It is very smooth. I was thinking move in with it after the Mojave starts moving too much. Catch a little more head oil but it shouldn't pop too hard when it reaches the dry(even on wood). I think you will be able to chase the oil on the third game with that ball. If you are moving out, then Kelly is right about it being too much ball.


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 Post subject: Re: Need ball for broken down, second shift, late block, fri
 Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 5:37 pm Post Number: #18 Post
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Ah! I get you now. I was thinking about balling DOWN to that! Um... NO!!! LOL! It would definitely work to move in with assuming that is a feasible shot on that condition. Chase the oil!

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 Post subject: Re: Need ball for broken down, second shift, late block, fri
 Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:13 pm Post Number: #19 Post
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So this may be where I am also back to thinking about products like Control It. Does that make sense?

I have been carrying the Mojave, which is new, along with a Total Annihilation that used to belong to a friend - that one has seen better days. Its been plugged and redrilled several times. It is currently drilled similar to the Mojave, but the pin is farther from PAP. The Pin is just above the bridge, the CG is tilted slightly to the right. I also have a urethane ball, an old Burgundy Hammer that has seen better days. And a plastic spare ball, a Target Zone that is also new. These are all drilled for me, and all are drilled with the same span and pitches.

I might try having my pro shop hit the Total Annihilation with a few coats of Control It on his spinner. I've heard it can reduce ball reaction by about half?

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