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 Post subject: Weight hole location
 Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:53 pm Post Number: #1 Post
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Alright,

I have a storm x-factor deuce and when I bought it, it had a 4 1/4 x 4 1/2 drilling on it. The pin was next to ring and a pinch up. It had a weight basically on my pap 1 inch x 2 1/4 inches deep. This made the ball rev up in the mid lane but with not a lot of hook. So, I plugged the hole and put a hole 13/16 x 1 3/4 deep 3 inches straight over from the thumb. Well, that made it rev up in the back and snap a little more. So, I plugged that one and put a 11/16 x 2 1/2 deep hole 4 inches straight over from grip center. This made it rev up really nice in the midlane again but I was ringing some ten pins with it due to the role in the midlane. I haven't really played with the cover much yet on this ball.

Here is a picture of the ball. http://s597.photobucket.com/albums/tt54 ... ion077.jpg

The weight hole in the picture was just plugged and moved an inch over and a 1 1/2 inches down thinking it would help with the backend some. This made the ball not rev up very easy so the current weight hole was a mistake. I have an x-factor vertigo which is drilled 4 1/2 x 4 1/2 pin down under ring with a small weight hole 3/8 x 3 1/2 inches deep about 5 over and 1 inch down. The vertigo roles nice in the midlane but has a strong backend move even when I get really deep with it. The current surface on the vertigo is 2k abralon against track and 4k with track.

So, my main question here is how could I make the deuce react similar to the vertigo but on a little less oil like when my vertigo starts hooking early or loses carry? Where should I put the weight hole?

My pap is 5 1/2 x 1/2 inch up. Also, what surface could i possibly use to help in the reaction shape I am looking for?

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Stats:
Right handed
Pap is 4 3/4 x 3/8 up currently
Speed around 16.5 off hand
Tilt in the 14-16* range
Rev rate: around 325 - 350 or so
Axis rotation in the 25-70* range
I bowl on Brunswick synthetics. Ths...


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 Post subject: Re: Weight hole location
 Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 12:58 pm Post Number: #2 Post
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I think before we go in depth about weight hole location and what it does to a bowling ball, are you familar with the Gradiant Line Hole Technique?


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 Post subject: Re: Weight hole location
 Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 8:42 am Post Number: #3 Post
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^^^^ I have read over some about the gradient line balance hole for the p1, p2, p3 and p4 locations. I do know that any weight holes 7/8 inch and bigger up to the max size allowed drilled from 2 1/2" to 3 1/2" deep make the biggest difference on reaction. But, what do these weight holes do if they are inside the val more and then past the val some?

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Stats:
Right handed
Pap is 4 3/4 x 3/8 up currently
Speed around 16.5 off hand
Tilt in the 14-16* range
Rev rate: around 325 - 350 or so
Axis rotation in the 25-70* range
I bowl on Brunswick synthetics. Ths...


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 Post subject: Re: Weight hole location
 Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:08 am Post Number: #4 Post
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river800 wrote:
^^^^ I have read over some about the gradient line balance hole for the p1, p2, p3 and p4 locations. I do know that any weight holes 7/8 inch and bigger up to the max size allowed drilled from 2 1/2" to 3 1/2" deep make the biggest difference on reaction. But, what do these weight holes do if they are inside the val more and then past the val some?

This will answer your question if I understand it correctly.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=82&hilit=flip+axis


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 Post subject: Re: Weight hole location
 Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:54 am Post Number: #5 Post
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Alright. I do understand some of what is being said in that thread. So, basically my best bet would be to put a hole on my val at 5 1/2 straight over just below my pap or right on my pap?? Lets say a 5/8 hole drilled 3 inches deep? After doing further research I am now starting to understand more about weight holes and locations.

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Stats:
Right handed
Pap is 4 3/4 x 3/8 up currently
Speed around 16.5 off hand
Tilt in the 14-16* range
Rev rate: around 325 - 350 or so
Axis rotation in the 25-70* range
I bowl on Brunswick synthetics. Ths...


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 Post subject: Re: Weight hole location
 Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:56 am Post Number: #6 Post
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river800 wrote:
Alright. I do understand some of what is being said in that thread. So, basically my best bet would be to put a hole on my val at 5 1/2 straight over just below my pap or right on my pap?? Lets say a 5/8 hole drilled 3 inches deep? After doing further research I am now starting to understand more about weight holes and locations.

We all assume you have studied the gradient line balance system?
If not go to Morich Home page and read it. I think it is on the wiki also.


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 Post subject: Re: Weight hole location
 Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:07 am Post Number: #7 Post
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I just reread the information about the balance hole locations based off from the line from the pin to the psa, I understand that now. I have around a 50-55 degree angle from the line to the pap, to the val for my x-factor deuce (I think)..lol. When I had the balance hole 7/8 x 2 inches deep 2 1/2 or so inches straight over from the thumb I did notice that it did rev up a little more a little later down the lane and had a good amount of pop on the backend. But, it was almost more like a hook set reaction.

I noticed that the balance holes being used are no smaller than 1". What if we use like a 3/8 - 7/8" diameter hole for the 4 different balance hole locations? I know that it would have less of an impact, but how much if you put the hole on the pap or in the psa?

_________________
Stats:
Right handed
Pap is 4 3/4 x 3/8 up currently
Speed around 16.5 off hand
Tilt in the 14-16* range
Rev rate: around 325 - 350 or so
Axis rotation in the 25-70* range
I bowl on Brunswick synthetics. Ths...


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 Post subject: Re: Weight hole location
 Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 5:12 pm Post Number: #8 Post
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Quote:
I just reread the information about the balance hole locations based off from the line from the pin to the psa, I understand that now.


The line is from the PAP to the psa. -- JohnP


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 Post subject: Re: Weight hole location
 Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:27 pm Post Number: #9 Post
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^^ Yes, John that is what I meant...oops!

_________________
Stats:
Right handed
Pap is 4 3/4 x 3/8 up currently
Speed around 16.5 off hand
Tilt in the 14-16* range
Rev rate: around 325 - 350 or so
Axis rotation in the 25-70* range
I bowl on Brunswick synthetics. Ths...


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 Post subject: Re: Weight hole location
 Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:07 am Post Number: #10 Post
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Alright Mo, waiting for your suggestion. I understand the gradient line balance hole thing, but need some specific weight hole advice for my x-factor deuce.

I had the weight hole 4 inches straight over and it revved up nice but kind of quit on the backend as I was leaving ringing ten pins. Is there a better spot to put the weight hole to make it rev up the same but kick just a bit more on the back end?

_________________
Stats:
Right handed
Pap is 4 3/4 x 3/8 up currently
Speed around 16.5 off hand
Tilt in the 14-16* range
Rev rate: around 325 - 350 or so
Axis rotation in the 25-70* range
I bowl on Brunswick synthetics. Ths...


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 Post subject: Re: Weight hole location
 Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:32 pm Post Number: #11 Post
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Sounds like you need either a P4 hole or a Double Thumb hole.

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 Post subject: Re: Weight hole location
 Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:38 pm Post Number: #12 Post
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If I do a double thumb or a p4 weight hole will it do what it did before rev up later down the lane and snap like what the ball did with the other weight hole 2 1/2 inches over from thumb? The ball has 3 plugs in the side already don't want to add any more than necessary.

_________________
Stats:
Right handed
Pap is 4 3/4 x 3/8 up currently
Speed around 16.5 off hand
Tilt in the 14-16* range
Rev rate: around 325 - 350 or so
Axis rotation in the 25-70* range
I bowl on Brunswick synthetics. Ths...


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 Post subject: Re: Weight hole location
 Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:29 pm Post Number: #13 Post
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river800 wrote:
Alright. I do understand some of what is being said in that thread. So, basically my best bet would be to put a hole on my val at 5 1/2 straight over just below my pap or right on my pap?? Lets say a 5/8 hole drilled 3 inches deep? After doing further research I am now starting to understand more about weight holes and locations.


Do some reading lol


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 Post subject: Re: Weight hole location
 Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 12:48 am Post Number: #14 Post
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odddood wrote:
Do some reading lol


Please do not belittle members, offer help when someone needs it.
Point them in the right direction, thats what makes this community different from the rest.

river800 wrote:
If I do a double thumb or a p4 weight hole will it do what it did before rev up later down the lane and snap like what the ball did with the other weight hole 2 1/2 inches over from thumb? The ball has 3 plugs in the side already don't want to add any more than necessary.


A double thumb is the most aggressive drilling you can put on a bowling ball.
It has the greatest effect on asymmetry, increasing the intermediate differential, and differential ratios, decreasing the spin time.

Please familiarize yourself with Gradient Line Extra Hole documentation on the wiki and feel free to ask any questions.

Here is the documentation: http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... ntLine.pdf
Here is a document that will display the statistical and dynamic effects of different weight holes using Gradient Hole technique: http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... _Nsane.pdf

Best of luck, let us know if you need any clarification.

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 Post subject: Re: Weight hole location
 Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:06 am Post Number: #15 Post
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MegaMav wrote:
odddood wrote:
Do some reading lol


Please do not belittle members, offer help when someone needs it.
Point them in the right direction, thats what makes this community different from the rest.

river800 wrote:
If I do a double thumb or a p4 weight hole will it do what it did before rev up later down the lane and snap like what the ball did with the other weight hole 2 1/2 inches over from thumb? The ball has 3 plugs in the side already don't want to add any more than necessary.


A double thumb is the most aggressive drilling you can put on a bowling ball.
It has the greatest effect on asymmetry, increasing the intermediate differential, and differential ratios, decreasing the spin time.

Please familiarize yourself with Gradient Line Extra Hole documentation on the wiki and feel free to ask any questions.

Here is the documentation: http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... ntLine.pdf
Here is a document that will display the statistical and dynamic effects of different weight holes using Gradient Hole technique: http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... _Nsane.pdf

Best of luck, let us know if you need any clarification.



Thanks for the info mega, I have read all about the gradiant line balance hole drilling technique, but my main question is how big of a weight hole and where do I need to add it to make the deuce react close my to x-factor vertigo but just on a little less oil or when my vertigo starts hooking and checking up early. Stats on vertigo in first post.

I loved how it revved up with the 11/16 2 inch deep weight hole 3 7/8 straight over from grip center, but I was ringing ten pins though. However, I hadn't played around with the cover yet to see if a different surface would make it bite just a bit more at the pins to carry the ten.

My other question is, since the weight hole 3 7/8 straight over revved up nice, would it still rev up similar if I were to put the same size 11/16 hole 5 1/2 straight over but kick just a pinch more on the backend?

Here is the photo of the deuce: http://s597.photobucket.com/albums/tt54 ... ion077.jpg

Also, the span is not correct either yet, so I know that has some effect when I release the ball.

_________________
Stats:
Right handed
Pap is 4 3/4 x 3/8 up currently
Speed around 16.5 off hand
Tilt in the 14-16* range
Rev rate: around 325 - 350 or so
Axis rotation in the 25-70* range
I bowl on Brunswick synthetics. Ths...


Last edited by river800 on Sat Dec 04, 2010 4:43 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Weight hole location
 Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:07 am Post Number: #16 Post
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odddood wrote:
river800 wrote:
Alright. I do understand some of what is being said in that thread. So, basically my best bet would be to put a hole on my val at 5 1/2 straight over just below my pap or right on my pap?? Lets say a 5/8 hole drilled 3 inches deep? After doing further research I am now starting to understand more about weight holes and locations.


Do some reading lol



Just like what Mega had said, giving some info instead of just READ would be a whole lot better :D as I have read but need a little more specific advice.

_________________
Stats:
Right handed
Pap is 4 3/4 x 3/8 up currently
Speed around 16.5 off hand
Tilt in the 14-16* range
Rev rate: around 325 - 350 or so
Axis rotation in the 25-70* range
I bowl on Brunswick synthetics. Ths...


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 Post subject: Re: Weight hole location
 Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:53 am Post Number: #17 Post
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Disclaimer: I'm not an expert here, the expert is on vacation.

Here is what my thoughts are.
We're missing one very important key here, and thats surface roughness of the coverstocks.
Without that we'll never know which ball is more aggressive and adjust the extra hole accordingly.

It sounds to me like you've got a P1ish hole on the ball now.
P1 Holes actually reduce dynamic properties.
Sounds like you went from P1ish to P2ish to P1ish again.

If im looking at that picture correctly, you may be able to pull off a P3 or a P4 hole.
You'll probably have to drill the fingers deeper to get some thumb weight to work with to pull it off.

If you're getting the motion you want, with the appropriate surface, but the ball isnt getting into a roll on the backend to carry the corners, I'd suggest following the gradient line guide and putting a P3 or a P4 hole on the RAD. How big the hole is depends on the amount of thumb and side weight you have to work with. Start with a small drill bit around 3" deep, throw the ball, and make it bigger if you desire a faster response to friction.

This P3 or P4 hole will decrease the spin time and shorten the hook zone to get the ball into a roll.

Make sure the hole is deep and hits the core to see the most change in ball reaction.
Hopefully some of the other members on here will chime in with their thoughts.

-Eric

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 Post subject: Re: Weight hole location
 Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:25 am Post Number: #18 Post
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Eric's break down is right on point. Since you want the ball to rev up stronger, P3, P4 and DT hole locations are what you're after.

The Double Thumb weight location is the best option IF, and ONLY IF, the P4 hole is not a possibility. This position puts the center of the hole 1 1/2" to the right of the thumb hole (right hander).

Looking at the position of the PSA on that ball, the Double Thumb location is probably the best option for you, as the PSA is below the thumb, making it VERY likely that you'll flare over a weight hole in that location.

As far as the "read" response, that's not an uncommon response on these boards. Not because we're trying to fob you off, but rather so you actually have the base information to carry a meaningful conversation here. Some of the conversation is not for the faint of heart... or bowling newbie. :) Mo likes for people to put in a little work of their own to save him repeating himself.

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 Post subject: Re: Weight hole location
 Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:11 am Post Number: #19 Post
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Here is an updated picture of the ball. The white dot is my pap and the yellow dot is where the current weight hole is 5 1/4 over 1 1/2 down from pap 11/16 x 2 inches deep.
Picture. http://s597.photobucket.com/albums/tt54 ... n077-1.jpg

What's funny is that the current weight hole is actually in the p2 spot but just 3/8 of an inch to the right. And from reading any weight hole in the p2 spot doesn't really do anything except for taking out some side weight.

_________________
Stats:
Right handed
Pap is 4 3/4 x 3/8 up currently
Speed around 16.5 off hand
Tilt in the 14-16* range
Rev rate: around 325 - 350 or so
Axis rotation in the 25-70* range
I bowl on Brunswick synthetics. Ths...


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 Post subject: Re: Weight hole location
 Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 6:34 am Post Number: #20 Post
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We've made our recommendations, now its up to you to decide if moving the extra hole is worth the effort to improve your reaction.

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