Re evaluating my arsenal.
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Re evaluating my arsenal.
I've decided to re evaluate my equipment. The main purpose is to gear up for tournament season, which begins for me in April. I recently made a change to my grip (thanks, Mo) which makes this a pretty good time to decide which balls to redrill with the new grip and which balls to part ways with.
I would like to get some ideas and commentary from the folks here. There have been some interesting topics about layouts and how they relate to each bowler's style. I've been reading about some new concepts that I would like to relate to my bowling. Hopefully other posters will gain something from this thread.
Thanks in advance
Here are my basic stats. My axis rotation varies but check the youtube link below.
PAP 4 3/4 inch over 0
Track Diameter 11 1/4
Axis Tilt ~15
Speed ~17.5 mph (Quibica)
Rev Rate ~325
Here is my equipment list. And yes, I'm geeky enough that I keep a spreadsheet of my gear.
EDIT: See updated chart below
I would like to get some ideas and commentary from the folks here. There have been some interesting topics about layouts and how they relate to each bowler's style. I've been reading about some new concepts that I would like to relate to my bowling. Hopefully other posters will gain something from this thread.
Thanks in advance
Here are my basic stats. My axis rotation varies but check the youtube link below.
PAP 4 3/4 inch over 0
Track Diameter 11 1/4
Axis Tilt ~15
Speed ~17.5 mph (Quibica)
Rev Rate ~325
Here is my equipment list. And yes, I'm geeky enough that I keep a spreadsheet of my gear.
EDIT: See updated chart below
Last edited by Slap on February 18th, 2010, 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- MegaMav
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- Location: Malta, NY
Re: Re evaluating my arsenal.
4 Balls I'd pick for a tournament lineup.
I'm a righty, and like to square up to the pocket, on fresh, particle solid is great for that.
Black Diamond.
You need reactive solid sanded/matte somewhere, take that Solid LevRG down to 1500 grit, or go with the LevRG.
Step down to the Avalanche Slide late in sets.
Pick Desperado or Orge Urethane as your utility spare ball.
Between the Black Diamond and the Solid LevRG or LevRG, should be able to cover about 80% of tournament conditions if your game is versitile.
You really dont have a mudder in there, but typically tournaments dont start out on an extreme, just my experience.
For me, particle is a must, just because you want something thats going to give you friction on the lane, bowling against different people will alway break the lane down different ways, but again, im a righty, I get more traffic.
-Eric
I'm a righty, and like to square up to the pocket, on fresh, particle solid is great for that.
Black Diamond.
You need reactive solid sanded/matte somewhere, take that Solid LevRG down to 1500 grit, or go with the LevRG.
Step down to the Avalanche Slide late in sets.
Pick Desperado or Orge Urethane as your utility spare ball.
Between the Black Diamond and the Solid LevRG or LevRG, should be able to cover about 80% of tournament conditions if your game is versitile.
You really dont have a mudder in there, but typically tournaments dont start out on an extreme, just my experience.
For me, particle is a must, just because you want something thats going to give you friction on the lane, bowling against different people will alway break the lane down different ways, but again, im a righty, I get more traffic.
-Eric
Re: Re evaluating my arsenal.
The first ball I want to address is my benchmark. It's been my Solid LevRG. I have success with the ball when there is a lot of friction but it doesn't like mid lane oil with my layout and surface. Perhaps that's a good thing for a benchmark ball.
Looking at my angle sums, trying to apply what I've been reading, it appears the layout on the Solid is out of line with my other equipment.
Looking at my angle sums, trying to apply what I've been reading, it appears the layout on the Solid is out of line with my other equipment.
Re: Re evaluating my arsenal.
My game is versatile enough to play from 15 to the twig. Once I move inside the third arrow I tend to struggle making consistent shots. To compound the issue, if I'm moving that deep so are the righties.MegaMav wrote:4 Balls I'd pick for a tournament lineup.
I'm a righty, and like to square up to the pocket, on fresh, particle solid is great for that.
Black Diamond.
You need reactive solid sanded/matte somewhere, take that Solid LevRG down to 1500 grit, or go with the LevRG.
Step down to the Avalanche Slide late in sets.
Pick Desperado or Orge Urethane as your utility spare ball.
Between the Black Diamond and the Solid LevRG or LevRG, should be able to cover about 80% of tournament conditions if your game is versitile.
You really dont have a mudder in there, but typically tournaments dont start out on an extreme, just my experience.
For me, particle is a must, just because you want something thats going to give you friction on the lane, bowling against different people will alway break the lane down different ways, but again, im a righty, I get more traffic.
-Eric
- Mo Pinel
- Rest In Peace
- Posts: 10054
- Joined: January 26th, 2010, 6:10 pm
- Preferred Company: MoRich, & now RADICAL BT
- Location: Richmond, VA
Re: Re evaluating my arsenal.
Slap,Slap wrote: My game is versatile enough to play from 15 to the twig. Once I move inside the third arrow I tend to struggle making consistent shots. To compound the issue, if I'm moving that deep so are the righties.
I'll comment tomorrow. OK? There's no correlation between you and MegaMav. He's a righty and you are a "PORT-SIDER" like me.
Rest In Peace (1942-2021)
Re: Re evaluating my arsenal.
No hurry. Plus based on your reply in Fufu's thread it looks like I need to ask Ray to teach me to use the deTerminator to spin my symmetrical cored stuff.
- Mo Pinel
- Rest In Peace
- Posts: 10054
- Joined: January 26th, 2010, 6:10 pm
- Preferred Company: MoRich, & now RADICAL BT
- Location: Richmond, VA
Re: Re evaluating my arsenal.
Ray should know how. The DeTerminator is the only way to accurately analyze your drilled symmetrical balls by finding the location of the real PSA.Slap wrote:No hurry. Plus based on your reply in Fufu's thread it looks like I need to ask Ray to teach me to use the deTerminator to spin my symmetrical cored stuff.
Rest In Peace (1942-2021)
Re: Re evaluating my arsenal.
I updated my chart to include my newest addition, MANIA and some surface changes.
My Tues league is switching patterns to Highway to Hell this week. I decided to add some surface to my LevRG (500 siaair) and Requiem (500/2000 siaair.) I will leave my Response and Mania @ 1000. I usually take 6 balls for the first week of a pattern so my Black Diamond will around out the group.
My Tues league is switching patterns to Highway to Hell this week. I decided to add some surface to my LevRG (500 siaair) and Requiem (500/2000 siaair.) I will leave my Response and Mania @ 1000. I usually take 6 balls for the first week of a pattern so my Black Diamond will around out the group.
- Mo Pinel
- Rest In Peace
- Posts: 10054
- Joined: January 26th, 2010, 6:10 pm
- Preferred Company: MoRich, & now RADICAL BT
- Location: Richmond, VA
Re: Re evaluating my arsenal.
I enjoy your interest in "boutique" companies. I am proud that you have a wide variey of MoRich balls in your arsenal. I am interested in your perception of the relationship between your LevRG Response and your mania considering they both should have the grip adjustment that we made to keep the weight in front of your hand longer. Do any of the other balls have that grip?Slap wrote:I updated my chart to include my newest addition, MANIA and some surface changes.
My Tues league is switching patterns to Highway to Hell this week. I decided to add some surface to my LevRG (500 siaair) and Requiem (500/2000 siaair.) I will leave my Response and Mania @ 1000. I usually take 6 balls for the first week of a pattern so my Black Diamond will around out the group.
Rest In Peace (1942-2021)
Re: Re evaluating my arsenal.
Well, I AM a full blood New Englander, we tend to have an odd preference for smaller businesses vs big box chains, and such. I've dabbled with some equipment from the "Big 3" but this season I've gravitated back to the boutique brands.
The real correlation between the brands I'm using right now is they all have active representatives on the bowling boards I read. I know if I have a question about a product, I can send a PM or email and get a response "straight from the horses mouth", usually within a few days. That really appeals to me. Heck, the conversation here was the deciding factor for me to drill a Mania instead of a 3.5...
I have new grip in the Response, Mania, Desperado and Sure Strike.
On to my MANIA. I used it Monday right of the box, literally. I made a trip to Buddies Monday afternoon to drill the Mania and convert several balls to the Vise IT system. I made it to league just in time to throw two practice balls with the Mania. Both struck so Mania was a GO! Below is my pinfall for the night. Please allow me to recap and think aloud.
This was a rare occasion because there were three lefties on our pair. A low rev female playing straighter down 12 and no thumber spraying and praying with a lane shined VG. This is the Beaten Path pattern. The Mania was very easy to get to the pocket and allowed me to start inside the no thumber. I don't think I could have played this angle with the Response or BD at their current surfaces.
Game one went pretty well, I missed outside a few shots but I stayed clean. Game 2 started well but I began to lose carry on one lane. Two boneheaded mistakes in the 3rd and 4th. I made a couple 1&1 moves inside in the 8th and 10th frames but no major improvement. I struck in the 11th but it wasn't a convincing strike. I switched to the Response to begin Game 3. I made a great shot, got the ball to the spot I wanted and it didn't turn. The Mania is that much stronger! Response went back into the bag, I didn't want to give away the pocket. Frames 2,4 and 5 were good balls. Frame 3 was off target and frame 6 was a yank. Switched to the BD in Frame 7 playing the same line. 1&1 inside and that was all she wrote.
I threw the Mania for 2.5 games and Response for one frame so I can't really compare and contrast them yet. My "odd couple" pairing of the Response and BD has been working really well on this pattern for the past 6 weeks. Monday is position round, and then we switch patterns so I'm going to use the same game plan for one more week.
Stay tuned...
The real correlation between the brands I'm using right now is they all have active representatives on the bowling boards I read. I know if I have a question about a product, I can send a PM or email and get a response "straight from the horses mouth", usually within a few days. That really appeals to me. Heck, the conversation here was the deciding factor for me to drill a Mania instead of a 3.5...
I have new grip in the Response, Mania, Desperado and Sure Strike.
On to my MANIA. I used it Monday right of the box, literally. I made a trip to Buddies Monday afternoon to drill the Mania and convert several balls to the Vise IT system. I made it to league just in time to throw two practice balls with the Mania. Both struck so Mania was a GO! Below is my pinfall for the night. Please allow me to recap and think aloud.
This was a rare occasion because there were three lefties on our pair. A low rev female playing straighter down 12 and no thumber spraying and praying with a lane shined VG. This is the Beaten Path pattern. The Mania was very easy to get to the pocket and allowed me to start inside the no thumber. I don't think I could have played this angle with the Response or BD at their current surfaces.
Game one went pretty well, I missed outside a few shots but I stayed clean. Game 2 started well but I began to lose carry on one lane. Two boneheaded mistakes in the 3rd and 4th. I made a couple 1&1 moves inside in the 8th and 10th frames but no major improvement. I struck in the 11th but it wasn't a convincing strike. I switched to the Response to begin Game 3. I made a great shot, got the ball to the spot I wanted and it didn't turn. The Mania is that much stronger! Response went back into the bag, I didn't want to give away the pocket. Frames 2,4 and 5 were good balls. Frame 3 was off target and frame 6 was a yank. Switched to the BD in Frame 7 playing the same line. 1&1 inside and that was all she wrote.
I threw the Mania for 2.5 games and Response for one frame so I can't really compare and contrast them yet. My "odd couple" pairing of the Response and BD has been working really well on this pattern for the past 6 weeks. Monday is position round, and then we switch patterns so I'm going to use the same game plan for one more week.
Stay tuned...
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- Mo Pinel
- Rest In Peace
- Posts: 10054
- Joined: January 26th, 2010, 6:10 pm
- Preferred Company: MoRich, & now RADICAL BT
- Location: Richmond, VA
Re: Re evaluating my arsenal.
My initial obsevation is that it looks like carry down became an issue while the heads broke down.Slap wrote:Well, I AM a full blood New Englander, we tend to have an odd preference for smaller businesses vs big box chains, and such. I've dabbled with some equipment from the "Big 3" but this season I've gravitated back to the boutique brands.
The real correlation between the brands I'm using right now is they all have active representatives on the bowling boards I read. I know if I have a question about a product, I can send a PM or email and get a response "straight from the horses mouth", usually within a few days. That really appeals to me. Heck, the conversation here was the deciding factor for me to drill a Mania instead of a 3.5...
I have new grip in the Response, Mania, Desperado and Sure Strike.
On to my MANIA. I used it Monday right of the box, literally. I made a trip to Buddies Monday afternoon to drill the Mania and convert several balls to the Vise IT system. I made it to league just in time to throw two practice balls with the Mania. Both struck so Mania was a GO! Below is my pinfall for the night. Please allow me to recap and think aloud.
This was a rare occasion because there were three lefties on our pair. A low rev female playing straighter down 12 and no thumber spraying and praying with a lane shined VG. This is the Beaten Path pattern. The Mania was very easy to get to the pocket and allowed me to start inside the no thumber. I don't think I could have played this angle with the Response or BD at their current surfaces.
Game one went pretty well, I missed outside a few shots but I stayed clean. Game 2 started well but I began to lose carry on one lane. Two boneheaded mistakes in the 3rd and 4th. I made a couple 1&1 moves inside in the 8th and 10th frames but no major improvement. I struck in the 11th but it wasn't a convincing strike. I switched to the Response to begin Game 3. I made a great shot, got the ball to the spot I wanted and it didn't turn. The Mania is that much stronger! Response went back into the bag, I didn't want to give away the pocket. Frames 2,4 and 5 were good balls. Frame 3 was off target and frame 6 was a yank. Switched to the BD in Frame 7 playing the same line. 1&1 inside and that was all she wrote.
I threw the Mania for 2.5 games and Response for one frame so I can't really compare and contrast them yet. My "odd couple" pairing of the Response and BD has been working really well on this pattern for the past 6 weeks. Monday is position round, and then we switch patterns so I'm going to use the same game plan for one more week.
Stay tuned...
Also, it looks like you should increase the surface on the Response one notch. My recollection is that your Response does not have a balance hole. Maybe it's time for a balance hole?
How big is the hole in the mania?
Last edited by Mo Pinel on February 19th, 2010, 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rest In Peace (1942-2021)
-
- Member
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- Heavy Oil Ball: Mania 40* x 4.25" x 30* P3.5 1000 Sia
- Medium Oil Ball: Evil Siege 45 x 4 x 35* 2000
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Re: Re evaluating my arsenal.
question on your game tracker.
I can assume which hits were high and light based on the leaves, but for tracking purposes, instead of flush/pocketing balls that just glance it, is there an option for "high" "light" "very high" "very light"?
It may help with reading your adjustments alittle better when analysing post-game.
I can assume which hits were high and light based on the leaves, but for tracking purposes, instead of flush/pocketing balls that just glance it, is there an option for "high" "light" "very high" "very light"?
It may help with reading your adjustments alittle better when analysing post-game.
- cgeorg
- Member
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- Positive Axis Point: 5 1/2 x 1/2
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Re: Re evaluating my arsenal.
DISCLAIMER: It's my site.
Matt, that tracker is BowlSK. It does have options for tracking high and light pocket hits, as well as stance, target, breakpoint, and actual target and breakpoint hit. I encourage you to take a look and provide feedback, either here or through the link on the site.
Matt, that tracker is BowlSK. It does have options for tracking high and light pocket hits, as well as stance, target, breakpoint, and actual target and breakpoint hit. I encourage you to take a look and provide feedback, either here or through the link on the site.
Re: Re evaluating my arsenal.
As cgeorg stated, there are TONS of additional tools available on the Bowlsk site. Admittedly I only use a few of them.MattCosta7 wrote:question on your game tracker.
I can assume which hits were high and light based on the leaves, but for tracking purposes, instead of flush/pocketing balls that just glance it, is there an option for "high" "light" "very high" "very light"?
It may help with reading your adjustments alittle better when analysing post-game.
Hey it's good to see you over there!cgeorg wrote:DISCLAIMER: It's my site.
Matt, that tracker is BowlSK. It does have options for tracking high and light pocket hits, as well as stance, target, breakpoint, and actual target and breakpoint hit. I encourage you to take a look and provide feedback, either here or through the link on the site.
Re: Re evaluating my arsenal.
Mo you're correct, there is no hole in the Response. The hole in the Mania is 3" deep and 7/8" across.Mo Pinel wrote:
My initial observation is that it looks like carry down became an issue while the heads broke down.
Also, it looks like you should increase the surface on the Response one notch. My recollection is that your Response does not have a balance hole. Maybe it's time for a balance hole?
How big is the hole in the mania?
Let's discuss this. The Response is @1000 micropad now, I do have a 800 pad which would be my next step. I'm reluctant to make any changes based on last Monday because of the additional traffic on the left side. This was the first week the Response hasn't turned the corner for me. To play devils advocate I was 3-4 boards further inside with my feet.
On the flip side, more surface might be a good thing because of the upcoming pattern changes. On Monday we're going from Beaten Path to Route 66. We already used Route 66 on Tuesday night this season and it played fairly slick. On Tuesday we rotate to Highway to Hell which played like a Valdez Oil Slick last season. (and kicked my butt)
My thoughts for Tuesday
1. LevRG @ 500 micro pad
2. Requiem @ 500/2000 micropad
3. Mania @ box finish
4. Response @ 1000 micropad
5. Black Diamond @ slight polish
- Mo Pinel
- Rest In Peace
- Posts: 10054
- Joined: January 26th, 2010, 6:10 pm
- Preferred Company: MoRich, & now RADICAL BT
- Location: Richmond, VA
Re: Re evaluating my arsenal.
Slap wrote: Mo you're correct, there is no hole in the Response. The hole in the Mania is 3" deep and 7/8" across.
Let's discuss this. The Response is @1000 micropad now, I do have a 800 pad which would be my next step. I'm reluctant to make any changes based on last Monday because of the additional traffic on the left side. This was the first week the Response hasn't turned the corner for me. To play devils advocate I was 3-4 boards further inside with my feet.
On the flip side, more surface might be a good thing because of the upcoming pattern changes. On Monday we're going from Beaten Path to Route 66. We already used Route 66 on Tuesday night this season and it played fairly slick. On Tuesday we rotate to Highway to Hell which played like a Valdez Oil Slick last season. (and kicked my butt)
My thoughts for Tuesday
1. LevRG @ 500 micro pad
2. Requiem @ 500/2000 micropad
3. Mania @ box finish
4. Response @ 1000 micropad
5. Black Diamond @ slight polish
Let's try that based on the unique circumstances of the last time you bowled.
Rest In Peace (1942-2021)
Re: Re evaluating my arsenal.
Ok...I'll post an update tomorrow after league.Mo Pinel wrote:
Let's try that based on the unique circumstances of the last time you bowled.[/color]
Mo, at your convenience I would like your opinion on a benchmark piece. You've nailed Response and Mania for my game. My Solid is 55 x 5 x 60 with a small, deep P4 hole.Slap wrote:The first ball I want to address is my benchmark. It's been my Solid LevRG. I have success with the ball when there is a lot of friction but it doesn't like mid lane oil with my layout and surface. Perhaps that's a good thing for a benchmark ball.
Looking at my angle sums, trying to apply what I've been reading, it appears the layout on the Solid is out of line with my other equipment.
Thanks
Re: Re evaluating my arsenal.
Okay update from Monday. I made a last minute decision to resurface my Mania to 2000 micropad. I did this after I checked out lane assignment and noticed we were on the extreme low end of the house. Typically more a lot more friction down there.
Started practice with the Mania@2000 and my Response @1000. On the fresh pattern (Beaten Path) the Response read the lane later in the mid lane. To my eyes the back end shape was similar. I decided to start with the Mania and I had a very good ball reaction.
Towards the end of game one I started having some physical game issues. I needed to move in to create more angle through the front of the lane. The Mania was really moving down lane! For the past two months I've been working on footwork and my bowling has improved. Monday night I could feel a regression to my bad footwork.
I switched to the Response and that gave me a little more forgiveness on slight inside misses. Overall I managed a a decent might but I missed an opportunity for a big one! Next week we're onto the Route 66 pattern.
Later I will post half of an update (crazy story) from Tuesday night, first week of Highway to Hell.
Thanks for reading and your comments!
Started practice with the Mania@2000 and my Response @1000. On the fresh pattern (Beaten Path) the Response read the lane later in the mid lane. To my eyes the back end shape was similar. I decided to start with the Mania and I had a very good ball reaction.
Towards the end of game one I started having some physical game issues. I needed to move in to create more angle through the front of the lane. The Mania was really moving down lane! For the past two months I've been working on footwork and my bowling has improved. Monday night I could feel a regression to my bad footwork.
I switched to the Response and that gave me a little more forgiveness on slight inside misses. Overall I managed a a decent might but I missed an opportunity for a big one! Next week we're onto the Route 66 pattern.
Later I will post half of an update (crazy story) from Tuesday night, first week of Highway to Hell.
Thanks for reading and your comments!
Re: Re evaluating my arsenal.
My newest toy arrived this week. Evil Siege drilled 50 x 3 /14 x 20 with a small P3 hole. Thanks to Chris @ Buddies. I used it sparingly on Tuesday night. We're on Highway to Hell pattern and there was too much volume for the ES in box finish, particularly compared to my Mania @800 micropad (by hand) and Response @1000 micropad.
Re: Re evaluating my arsenal.
EDIT: I removed the youtube link. I wasn't happy with the quality of the video. I'm rendering it again. Check back tomorrow.
I uploaded a video from my practice session on Sunday. I'm bowling on the pattern that we started on Monday for the last third of our league. The rumor was it was a medium difficulty pattern with a higher volume of oil so I took a variety of balls to practice.
My initial opinion is that it's a fair pattern, tons of conditioner inside with friction around 5-6. The track area has been taken out of play. I found a comfortable areas outside and inside.
Order of appearance
0:00 Sure Strike @2000 micropad
0:49 Solid LevRG @ 2000
1:15 LevRG Response @ 1000
1:45 Black Diamond @ 2000
2:10 Mania @ 1000
I uploaded a video from my practice session on Sunday. I'm bowling on the pattern that we started on Monday for the last third of our league. The rumor was it was a medium difficulty pattern with a higher volume of oil so I took a variety of balls to practice.
My initial opinion is that it's a fair pattern, tons of conditioner inside with friction around 5-6. The track area has been taken out of play. I found a comfortable areas outside and inside.
Order of appearance
0:00 Sure Strike @2000 micropad
0:49 Solid LevRG @ 2000
1:15 LevRG Response @ 1000
1:45 Black Diamond @ 2000
2:10 Mania @ 1000