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 Post subject: How many layout methods are there?
 Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:48 am Post Number: #1 Post
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Just trying to get "current" after a long time away from the game and now confusion erupts. Mo has the "Dual Angle Layout" that's now burned into my brain, then I bump into layouts that are based on "distance to PAP" from the pin, cg and psa/mb. Now I find the "Gradient Guide" from Lane #1 that seems to be totally opposite of the "Dual Angle" method with no mention of flare at all .... what's up with this? ..... does every ball maker have their own way of laying out balls? Is there one method that works on them all or do I have to use whatever method each manufacturer suggests?


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 Post subject: Re: How many layout methods are there?
 Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 8:03 am Post Number: #2 Post
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There are a few good things going for Dual Angle systems that the other systems don't really wind up with.

The one thing I like about the Dual Angle method is the way it tends to place the CG in a decent spot for use with the gradient line balance holes. (If you've got the right pin-cg distance for that particular layout anyways.) What other ball drilling method comes with a consistent way to alter the ball reaction after drilling?


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 Post subject: Re: How many layout methods are there?
 Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 3:40 pm Post Number: #3 Post
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What you are talking about is language. Every ball manufacture has tried to come up with a language to explain to you how to layout their ball to achieve your desired results. Most of them have since learned to speak "Mo"
Steve said it best "EVERY drilling that has EVER been placed on a ball can be described by Dual Angles. We use the Dual Angle language to precisely define the layout because it is deadly accurate but the correct layout must chosen for each bowler."


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 Post subject: Re: How many layout methods are there?
 Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 6:40 pm Post Number: #4 Post
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To me, the main advantage of Duel Angle is the VAL angle. You can do any layout pin and MB to PAP but where will you draw the VAL line. This is where duel angle really struts its stuff. Just my opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: How many layout methods are there?
 Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:19 am Post Number: #5 Post
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For me,

It helps in consistency, and when combined with the information given on the effects of the angles, and pin to pap distance enables you to get a much higher chance of a correct ball reaction. When the gradient line balance hole location is added you can tweak the ball to increase, decrease, or keep the same reaction while getting the static weight legal if needed.

Also the ease in being able to recreate it from one ball to the next.

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 Post subject: Re: How many layout methods are there?
 Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:09 pm Post Number: #6 Post
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bubblehead wrote:
Just trying to get "current" after a long time away from the game and now confusion erupts. Mo has the "Dual Angle Layout" that's now burned into my brain, then I bump into layouts that are based on "distance to PAP" from the pin, cg and psa/mb. Now I find the "Gradient Guide" from Lane #1 that seems to be totally opposite of the "Dual Angle" method with no mention of flare at all .... what's up with this? ..... does every ball maker have their own way of laying out balls? Is there one method that works on them all or do I have to use whatever method each manufacturer suggests?


In bowling, almost everybody thinks they're an expert. "Dual Angle" layouts were created as the most accurate way to describe a layout. It provides the best method of creating a layout that will perform exactly as it was intended to perform. It was never intended to be something revolutionary, just an accurate method of doing a layout that will perform as it was intended to. The success of a "Dual Angle" layout is totally dependent on the accuracy of the decisions made by the ball driller. This is a free country and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. The value of "Dual Angle" layouts stand on their own and their success. The decision of which method to follow in yours.


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 Post subject: Re: How many layout methods are there?
 Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:10 pm Post Number: #7 Post
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Thanks for the replies everyone .... the main thing I was concerned about with all this is whether or not the Dual Angle Layout does the same thing on every ball out there. Which now I'm fairly sure that answer is yes. From some of the recommended layouts I've seen from other ball manufacturers, some just didn't seem too savy on "Mo-Logic", so I wasn't sure if it was them or me that had some wires crossed. Appreciate the come-back!


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 Post subject: Re: How many layout methods are there?
 Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:39 pm Post Number: #8 Post
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bubblehead wrote:
Just trying to get "current" after a long time away from the game and now confusion erupts. Mo has the "Dual Angle Layout" that's now burned into my brain, then I bump into layouts that are based on "distance to PAP" from the pin, cg and psa/mb. Now I find the "Gradient Guide" from Lane #1 that seems to be totally opposite of the "Dual Angle" method with no mention of flare at all .... what's up with this? ..... does every ball maker have their own way of laying out balls? Is there one method that works on them all or do I have to use whatever method each manufacturer suggests?


I just finished teaching the IBPSIA Advanced class at the ITRC in Arlington, TX. In that class, I discussed that the true scientific definition of a layout to control performance of any given ball is a triangle bounded by the PSA (high RG axis), the pin (low RG axis) and the bowler's PAP, and the angle to the VAL. Accurate layout techniques are nothing more that different ways to describe that triangle and that angle. It's ALL terminology. Take your pick.


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 Post subject: Re: How many layout methods are there?
 Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 10:24 pm Post Number: #9 Post
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Mo hit the nail on the head when he said it was all in terminology ..BUT ...The dual angle lay out is the best way to put those 3 points in proper relationship each and every time....I don't use drill sheets from manufactures any more...Thanks Mo for the system....Steve S


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 Post subject: Re: How many layout methods are there?
 Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:00 am Post Number: #10 Post
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steve s wrote:
Mo hit the nail on the head when he said it was all in terminology ..BUT ...The dual angle lay out is the best way to put those 3 points in proper relationship each and every time....I don't use drill sheets from manufactures any more...Thanks Mo for the system....Steve S


I appreciate the compliment. I'm glad you understand the value.


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