what influences a ball to stand up quicker?

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militant02
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what influences a ball to stand up quicker?

Post by militant02 »

if all things being equal with a bowler's release (lower tilt, slightly rev dominate, 60* of rotation) what influences a ball to stand up quicker when friction is encountered, a lower drill angle or a lower angle to the val? the reason that i ask is some asymmetrical balls tend to exit the end of the pattern and seem to immediately enter the hook phase and have a pronounced hook set reaction. would using a longer (5 1/2 inches) pin placement on a stronger asym make the reaction even more hook set? would it be better to use a shorter pin placement (4 1/2 inches) to help the ball retain tilt to slow down its second transition?

also, in general what type of reaction are most pros looking for when they drill a ball with the pin three or more inches higher than their fingers? i know that it depends on that particular bowler's grip, pap and release but if its someone like ej tackett for example how would that effect his ball reaction on a typical house shot and what type of line would that reaction be more advantageous to play? thanks!
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EricHartwell
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Re: what influences a ball to stand up quicker?

Post by EricHartwell »

militant02 wrote: March 16th, 2021, 2:39 am if all things being equal with a bowler's release (lower tilt, slightly rev dominate, 60* of rotation) what influences a ball to stand up quicker when friction is encountered High Rg drillings, Longer Pin to PAP, the ball "stands up".
Low Rg drillings, shorter pin to PAP, the core "lays down" when it gets into its roll
, a lower drill angle or a lower angle to the val? Both work together and dull surface prep on a Strong Reactive cover amplifies this even more. the reason that i ask is some asymmetrical balls tend to exit the end of the pattern and seem to immediately enter the hook phase and have a pronounced hook set reaction. would using a longer (5 1/2 inches) pin placement on a stronger asym make the reaction even more hook set? Yes
would it be better to use a shorter pin placement (4 1/2 inches) to help the ball retain tilt to slow down its second transition? 4 1/2" Pin to PAP is where Asyms really start reacting strongly to friction.
I like Pin To PAP distances 2.5" to 3" for a smoother reaction and get what I call continuation, a longer hook zone.


also, in general Sorry too general what type of reaction are most pros looking for when they drill a ball with the pin three or more inches higher than their fingers? i know that it depends on that particular bowler's grip, pap and release but if its someone like ej tackett for example how would that effect his ball reaction on a typical house shot and what type of line would that reaction be more advantageous to play? thanks! Somebody like EJ Tackett has the skills to probably use just about any ball in his arsenal and absolutely kill a house shot.

Where you are seeing the Pin Way above the fingers is the No Thumb Bowlers. The Center of grip is right between the fingers, the center of removed Mass. The pin location from the center of grip is pretty much normal, it just looks different because the grip is different.
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militant02
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Re: what influences a ball to stand up quicker?

Post by militant02 »

thank you for the answers eric but i should have been a little more specific with some of them. when i was referring to a ball standing up quicker i should have said that i meant asymmetrical balls because of how they rev up quicker than symmetrical balls at the breakpoint. so that i understand with asym's only, the further the pin placements from the pap the quicker a ball will stand up and the more it will hook set? are there any situations that you would personally want more of a hook set look? i have a decent idea of how to buy different balls so that they compliment each other but i also want to learn which layouts might compliment each other as well.

when you say that you like 2.5 to three inch pin placements is that on asym's? does that give an asym a similar motion to a symmetrical ball but just a little faster revving for better hitting power? would it be a good guess that looking at your specs that you normally like to keep your breakpoint more in front of you and more closed angles or is that completely off base?

lastly, the reason that i asked about the fairly high pin placement is on a telecast that i watched i remember someone saying that with the particular pattern that the pros were on (most of whom were the tackett/ bj moore/ marhall kent types) that they wanted their ball to go through the hook phase quickly to avoid the pretty strong backends that were present. i was wondering why they didn't use a 5.5 inch pin placement on an asym to accomplish the same thing.

thanks for your input!
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EricHartwell
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Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
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Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
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Re: what influences a ball to stand up quicker?

Post by EricHartwell »

militant02 wrote: March 17th, 2021, 4:56 am thank you for the answers eric but i should have been a little more specific with some of them. when i was referring to a ball standing up quicker i should have said that i meant asymmetrical balls because of how they rev up quicker than symmetrical balls at the breakpoint. so that i understand with asym's only, the further the pin placements from the pap the quicker a ball will stand up and the more it will hook set? Hook Set could also be described as skid snap depending on perception. I like 70-5-35 asym for a deeper inside, play it on the dry outside line and it hook sets. are there any situations that you would personally want more of a hook set look? I personally don't like the hook set reaction look I get when I am getting to the friction too early and the ball just rolls way too soon. i have a decent idea of how to buy different balls so that they compliment each other but i also want to learn which layouts might compliment each other as well.

when you say that you like 2.5 to three inch pin placements is that on asym's? Yes Asyms does that give an asym a similar motion to a symmetrical ball but just a little faster revving for better hitting power? No, a 3" pin to PAP on Symmetrical is very strong and sensitive to rotation especially for a low tilt bowler. For lots of left to right motion. would it be a good guess that looking at your specs that you normally like to keep your breakpoint more in front of you and more closed angles or is that completely off base? Interesting observation, I do prefer to keep things straighter if I can.

lastly, the reason that i asked about the fairly high pin placement is on a telecast that i watched i remember someone saying that with the particular pattern that the pros were on (most of whom were the tackett/ bj moore/ marhall kent types) that they wanted their ball to go through the hook phase quickly to avoid the pretty strong backends that were present. i was wondering why they didn't use a 5.5 inch pin placement on an asym to accomplish the same thing. These guys all have enough revs they really don't need a core helping them to get a ball to roll.
I think they also want the low flare of the Symmetrical vs a higher flaring Asym, helping to conserve rather than destroy the oil pattern.


thanks for your input!
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Eric Hartwell

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PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
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