Ok ok ok, I'm finally ready to admit I have a problem...

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BrokenArrow
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Ok ok ok, I'm finally ready to admit I have a problem...

Post by BrokenArrow » February 21st, 2020, 5:25 pm

Hi, my name is Vincent and I'm a 'hook' addict.

All I buy is hook monster balls. I fell absolutely in love with standing at the furthest left dot and throwing the ball out to the 1st arrow and having it come back. I love the look and the sound of the ball just skating sideways into the pocket. The problem is the average has suffered greatly because I can't seem to stop myself from throwing like this.

When I was younger I threw a black hammer urethane ball and pipped it up second arrow and average around 220. Now I hook side to side and average about 180. I just fell in love with it and can't change. I can't even bring myself to look at a 'low hook' type of ball. But I know I need to.

So now I need some suggestions. I wanna play second arrow again. Heres the issue. I am pretty rev dominate. My average shot is in the 4s for rev rate and I can hit 5s on occasion. I need something that will hold and still store energy enough to carry.

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Re: Ok ok ok, I'm finally ready to admit I have a problem...

Post by boomer » February 21st, 2020, 5:51 pm

can you work on staying behind and not cranking the ball so much? I don't know of a ball that will go that straight and NOT make a sharp left turn with your rev-rate and dominance. . . sure, polishing will get it to go farther, but when it hits friction it's still going to jump left. . .

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Re: Ok ok ok, I'm finally ready to admit I have a problem...

Post by BrokenArrow » February 21st, 2020, 6:06 pm

I can tone it down slightly but being a no thumb bowler it’s hard to tone it down a lot. Usually when I wanna go straighter I throw it harder. I’m normally around 16. I can hit around 18 if need be but I think throwing 18 for 3 consecutive games is gonna make my shoulder hate me. I was thinking of something like a pitch purple but even that might be too much ball.

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Re: Ok ok ok, I'm finally ready to admit I have a problem...

Post by BrokenArrow » February 21st, 2020, 7:19 pm

Or maybe something like a storm "mix"

or possible a hybrid hustle seems to look pretty nice for what i want to do

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Re: Ok ok ok, I'm finally ready to admit I have a problem...

Post by 44boyd » February 22nd, 2020, 2:05 am

I’d start with a pitch black, you want a weaker urethane to start with. You can go stronger from there. You need to find your stats so Eric can provide layouts for you. Just doing general layouts like you have been is not maximizing the ball for your game.
Stacy

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Re: Ok ok ok, I'm finally ready to admit I have a problem...

Post by bowlingforsoup » February 22nd, 2020, 4:15 pm

I am very rev dominate slower speed.I usually always play standing 30 or deeper.I bought the Motiv Covert Tank and can stand 17 to 20 range and play 10 out.The ball rolls like urethane but has a little better backend.I actully bought the Motiv Tank Blitz to which is a little stronger .Both compliment each other great.I was stuck playing lanes just like you.Not anymore. The new Polymor cover Tanks are something special.

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kajmk
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Re: Ok ok ok, I'm finally ready to admit I have a problem...

Post by kajmk » February 22nd, 2020, 5:23 pm

If you are consistently able to get results that you accept, all is well.
An adage I heard a long time ago went something like this, "The answers to your bowling problems do not come in a box".
I remember a young Walter Ray, playing deep inside and hooking the ball, ditto Norm Duke. Norm won his first PBA title when he was 18 in 1983, his next was in 1991.



Paraphrasing an anecdote -
After an athlete had executed an amazing execution, a veteran athlete said, that was very nice, but can you do it again(?).

There are many pitchers who have velocity and variety but lack good enough control to keep them in the game.


Just for grins -

Jim Maloney was a fireballer for the Cincinnati Reds. He had a very good career.
Jim occasionally lost the plate.
I still remember this one
His second no-hitter (and first official no-hitter under current rules), was two months later on August 19 and also required ten innings, but he won that one 1–0 over the Chicago Cubs. In the first game of a Thursday doubleheader, Maloney outdueled Larry Jackson, with the Reds winning on a Leo Cárdenas home run, with one out, in the top of the tenth, which struck the left field foul pole. This was the first no-hitter in modern major league history in which the pitcher who threw it went more than nine innings. Maloney struck out twelve, but had ten walks and hit a batter; he threw 187 pitches in the game.[10][11] With the win, he got another raise of a thousand dollars.[12]

It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so

There should be a rule of war saying you have to see someone up close and get to know 'em before it's ok to shoot 'em

Empathize

John

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Re: Ok ok ok, I'm finally ready to admit I have a problem...

Post by BrokenArrow » February 22nd, 2020, 5:24 pm

44boyd wrote:
February 22nd, 2020, 2:05 am
I’d start with a pitch black, you want a weaker urethane to start with. You can go stronger from there. You need to find your stats so Eric can provide layouts for you. Just doing general layouts like you have been is not maximizing the ball for your game.
Yeah you’re right. When I go on Monday I’ll get a full stat sheet.

Should I consider going down to 14? I mean I can handle 15 but obviously I could get more speed on a lighter ball which would allow me to play straighter.

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Re: Ok ok ok, I'm finally ready to admit I have a problem...

Post by BrokenArrow » February 22nd, 2020, 5:30 pm

kajmk wrote:
February 22nd, 2020, 5:23 pm
If you are consistently able to get results that you accept, all is well.
That’s the problem. I’m not. The big gutter to gutter hook is very hard to control and their is so many variables. Speed, projection angle, revs, stance.

Obviously those things effect any bowler. But going straight and piping it up second arrow there is a lot less to think about and the slight misses don’t hit as hard.

With the big hook if I get even a half mph light I’m in the face. If I don’t fully project to first arrow I’m in the face. If I get fast I’m no where near the pocket. If I don’t really crank it at the bottom I basically shoot a ten pin. There just so much to think about to make the big hook be consistent.

I feel like less moving parts and less opportunity for variation would make me a better bowler.

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Re: Ok ok ok, I'm finally ready to admit I have a problem...

Post by 44boyd » February 22nd, 2020, 5:35 pm

depends on how you feel, it’s a strongman style and will wear you down as you age. You’ve mentioned shoulder issues, could be technique or fatigue.
Stacy

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Re: Ok ok ok, I'm finally ready to admit I have a problem...

Post by BrokenArrow » February 22nd, 2020, 5:46 pm

It's most likely fatigue. On my days off from work I bowl an average of 10 games. I'm friends with the owner of my local bowling alley and he lets me bowl for very close to free. So I spend most of my free time there and I can easily bowl 10-15 games in a day and not even realize it until I get home and my arm feels like it's ready to fall off.

Ofcourse with the lower weight I worry about carry.

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Re: Ok ok ok, I'm finally ready to admit I have a problem...

Post by kajmk » February 22nd, 2020, 5:46 pm

BrokenArrow wrote:
February 22nd, 2020, 5:30 pm
That’s the problem. I’m not. The big gutter to gutter hook is very hard to control and their is so many variables. Speed, projection angle, revs, stance.

Obviously those things effect any bowler. But going straight and piping it up second arrow there is a lot less to think about and the slight misses don’t hit as hard.

With the big hook if I get even a half mph light I’m in the face. If I don’t fully project to first arrow I’m in the face. If I get fast I’m no where near the pocket. If I don’t really crank it at the bottom I basically shoot a ten pin. There just so much to think about to make the big hook be consistent.

I feel like less moving parts and less opportunity for variation would make me a better bowler.
Beyond a doubt!
I was perhaps too obtuse in trying to nudge that point across.

In my attempts to pitch, I quickly realized that my fastball was not going to cut it.
I decided to use it like a change up. It either put the batter in a state of shock or resulted in them rolling in the batters box laughing, or me getting an early shower.

You've heard the expression "he could throw a ball through a carwash and it would come out dry". I could throw a ball and the ump could brush off the plate and get set before the ball got there.

Sort of like

It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so

There should be a rule of war saying you have to see someone up close and get to know 'em before it's ok to shoot 'em

Empathize

John

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Re: Ok ok ok, I'm finally ready to admit I have a problem...

Post by BrokenArrow » February 22nd, 2020, 6:07 pm

I'm pretty sure my next ball is either a fever pitch or a pitch black, really stuck between the two.

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Re: Ok ok ok, I'm finally ready to admit I have a problem...

Post by 44boyd » February 22nd, 2020, 6:27 pm

You hardly see the fever pitch being used, I’d go pitch black or hammer black
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Re: Ok ok ok, I'm finally ready to admit I have a problem...

Post by BrokenArrow » February 22nd, 2020, 7:11 pm

I can't seem to find the old hammer black that I used to throw as a kid and the new hammer urethane seems to be designed for stronger hook. Probably end up going with a pitch black.

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Re: Ok ok ok, I'm finally ready to admit I have a problem...

Post by EricHartwell » February 22nd, 2020, 7:22 pm

BrokenArrow wrote:
February 22nd, 2020, 7:11 pm
I can't seem to find the old hammer black that I used to throw as a kid and the new hammer urethane seems to be designed for stronger hook. Probably end up going with a pitch black.
If you can get your hands on one of Hammer's Black Urethane I would. It is essentially a replica of the original.
Sure factory dull is stronger but back in the day you threw the Black Hammer with its lane shine. Get the Purple for heavier oil.
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Re: Ok ok ok, I'm finally ready to admit I have a problem...

Post by BrokenArrow » February 22nd, 2020, 7:40 pm

EricHartwell wrote:
February 22nd, 2020, 7:22 pm
If you can get your hands on one of Hammer's Black Urethane I would. It is essentially a replica of the original.
Sure factory dull is stronger but back in the day you threw the Black Hammer with its lane shine. Get the Purple for heavier oil.
They seem to be sold out every where I look. Ebay seems to be about the only spot to get one. If you wanna pay north of 200 that is

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Re: Ok ok ok, I'm finally ready to admit I have a problem...

Post by kajmk » February 22nd, 2020, 10:55 pm

BrokenArrow wrote:
February 22nd, 2020, 5:46 pm
It's most likely fatigue. On my days off from work I bowl an average of 10 games. I'm friends with the owner of my local bowling alley and he lets me bowl for very close to free. So I spend most of my free time there and I can easily bowl 10-15 games in a day and not even realize it until I get home and my arm feels like it's ready to fall off.

Ofcourse with the lower weight I worry about carry.
Barring preexisting conditions, a bad grip (need that baby bird grip), a ball that is WAY too heavy, a long layoff from bowling (like doing the first gardening chores of spring), I don't think 10-15 games should result in a sore arm.
I'd advise you to seek out a good PSO for analysis and an instructor to optimize your physical game.
A good instructor will determine CAUSE which will result in better effect.
Symptoms are easy to see, they are like the top of an iceberg, Cause, however lies below the water.
Centrifugal force, magnifies the effective weight of a ball during the swing 4x (Kouros)
There are proper places to employ force but during most of the swing, your hand is going along for the ride. Watch the ETBF video found on the wiki, Juha goes into efficient use of the body.

For all intent and purposes, I stopped bowling at 56 following surgery and chemotherapy, but mostly due to an extreme paradigm shift at work that threatened the jobs of many. Up until I stopped I could roll more games than I could afford to pay for. When I could rent lanes, I'd do a 4 hour session. Note well that I'm not a good athlete and was never more than a mediocre bowler.
Granted we are all different.
Bowling, should not hurt.

Just concerned for your health!
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so

There should be a rule of war saying you have to see someone up close and get to know 'em before it's ok to shoot 'em

Empathize

John

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Re: Ok ok ok, I'm finally ready to admit I have a problem...

Post by EricHartwell » February 23rd, 2020, 3:39 am

Not $200, $126.95 Better than list price back in the day. I paid $135 for my Original Back Hammer.

https://www.ebay.com/i/121786709530?chn ... -LEALw_wcB
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Re: Ok ok ok, I'm finally ready to admit I have a problem...

Post by BrokenArrow » February 23rd, 2020, 4:45 pm

kajmk wrote:
February 22nd, 2020, 10:55 pm
Barring preexisting conditions, a bad grip (need that baby bird grip), a ball that is WAY too heavy, a long layoff from bowling (like doing the first gardening chores of spring), I don't think 10-15 games should result in a sore arm.
I'd advise you to seek out a good PSO for analysis and an instructor to optimize your physical game.
A good instructor will determine CAUSE which will result in better effect.
Symptoms are easy to see, they are like the top of an iceberg, Cause, however lies below the water.
Centrifugal force, magnifies the effective weight of a ball during the swing 4x (Kouros)
There are proper places to employ force but during most of the swing, your hand is going along for the ride. Watch the ETBF video found on the wiki, Juha goes into efficient use of the body.

For all intent and purposes, I stopped bowling at 56 following surgery and chemotherapy, but mostly due to an extreme paradigm shift at work that threatened the jobs of many. Up until I stopped I could roll more games than I could afford to pay for. When I could rent lanes, I'd do a 4 hour session. Note well that I'm not a good athlete and was never more than a mediocre bowler.
Granted we are all different.
Bowling, should not hurt.

Just concerned for your health!
I'm guessing its probably the full yank and the bottom of the swing. I really do everything in my power to get the most revs I possible can on the ball and all that twisting and turning probably isn't the best on the body. I've never been coached or anything professionally and I'm sure my form is most likely lacking. My other issue is I throw my games very fast. Everyone always tells me to slow down. I'm usually up and waiting for the pin re-setter with every shot. I most likely need to slow down and have a less violent, more controlled rev rate.

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