Low Tilt question

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jobowl
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Posts: 76
Joined: February 8th, 2015, 11:28 pm
THS Average: 222
Sport Average: 204
Positive Axis Point: 5 over 1 1/16 up
Speed: 17 mph at the line
Rev Rate: 270
Axis Tilt: 7
Axis Rotation: 80
Preferred Company: storm/roto....motiv

Low Tilt question

Post by jobowl » January 28th, 2020, 5:20 pm

As a low tilt bowler ..
I'm always looking for layouts to help retain tilt and burn my axis rotation...my tilt is around 6 degrees and my axis rotation is around 75 degrees

Mo says shorter pins between 2 3/4 and 4 1/4are great for low tilt bowlers
JR Raymond has gone on record saying that longer pins like 4 1/2 to 5 1/2 work better

What are your thoughts
ball speed 17.5
rev rate 270
axis tilt 7 degrees
axis rotation 80 degrees
pap 5 over 1 1/16 up

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deanchamp
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Re: Low Tilt question

Post by deanchamp » January 29th, 2020, 6:32 am

Depends if the ball has a symmetrical core or asymmetrical core.
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jobowl
Member
Member
Posts: 76
Joined: February 8th, 2015, 11:28 pm
THS Average: 222
Sport Average: 204
Positive Axis Point: 5 over 1 1/16 up
Speed: 17 mph at the line
Rev Rate: 270
Axis Tilt: 7
Axis Rotation: 80
Preferred Company: storm/roto....motiv

Re: Low Tilt question

Post by jobowl » January 29th, 2020, 10:56 am

Can you explain the difference in both
ball speed 17.5
rev rate 270
axis tilt 7 degrees
axis rotation 80 degrees
pap 5 over 1 1/16 up

jobowl
Member
Member
Posts: 76
Joined: February 8th, 2015, 11:28 pm
THS Average: 222
Sport Average: 204
Positive Axis Point: 5 over 1 1/16 up
Speed: 17 mph at the line
Rev Rate: 270
Axis Tilt: 7
Axis Rotation: 80
Preferred Company: storm/roto....motiv

Re: Low Tilt question

Post by jobowl » January 29th, 2020, 11:42 am

My stats are as follows
Ball speed 17.5
RPMS 270
Axis Rotation 80 degrees
Axis Tilt 7 degrees
PAP 5 over 1 1/16 up
ball speed 17.5
rev rate 270
axis tilt 7 degrees
axis rotation 80 degrees
pap 5 over 1 1/16 up

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EricHartwell
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Posts: 3682
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous
Medium Oil Ball: Motiv Villain, Hammer Nail, Brunswick True Motion
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer, Columbia Nitrous
Location: Michigan

Re: Low Tilt question

Post by EricHartwell » January 31st, 2020, 12:16 am

jobowl wrote:
January 29th, 2020, 10:56 am
Can you explain the difference in both
Start with the definitions of the words Symmetrical and Asymmetrical

https://www.google.com/search?q=Symmetr ... e&ie=UTF-8

https://www.google.com/search?q=Asymmet ... e&ie=UTF-8

Here is a good article....
http://news.stormbowling.com/2017/04/06 ... ric-cores/
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand

jobowl
Member
Member
Posts: 76
Joined: February 8th, 2015, 11:28 pm
THS Average: 222
Sport Average: 204
Positive Axis Point: 5 over 1 1/16 up
Speed: 17 mph at the line
Rev Rate: 270
Axis Tilt: 7
Axis Rotation: 80
Preferred Company: storm/roto....motiv

Re: Low Tilt question

Post by jobowl » January 31st, 2020, 2:13 am

I understand the difference between asymmetric and symmetrical balls...what I don't know is what my tilt will mean in terms of how to lay it out....whether a certain layout on a symmetrical ball produces a more continuous or a forward rolling motion and what that layout means on an asymmetrical ball
ball speed 17.5
rev rate 270
axis tilt 7 degrees
axis rotation 80 degrees
pap 5 over 1 1/16 up

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EricHartwell
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Posts: 3682
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous
Medium Oil Ball: Motiv Villain, Hammer Nail, Brunswick True Motion
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer, Columbia Nitrous
Location: Michigan

Re: Low Tilt question

Post by EricHartwell » January 31st, 2020, 11:36 pm

Long pin to PAP on Symmetricals and Shorter pin to PAP on Asymmetricals for more continuous hook motion.

Short pin to PAP on Symmetrical and Longer pin to PAP on Asymmetricals will produce more forward motion.

Symmetrical and Asymmetrical are opposites.

Your low tilt means you want Higher ratios. Larger drilling angles and smaller VAL angles.

Your higher speed and rotation needs a duller surface to help get the ball to actually roll.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand

jobowl
Member
Member
Posts: 76
Joined: February 8th, 2015, 11:28 pm
THS Average: 222
Sport Average: 204
Positive Axis Point: 5 over 1 1/16 up
Speed: 17 mph at the line
Rev Rate: 270
Axis Tilt: 7
Axis Rotation: 80
Preferred Company: storm/roto....motiv

Re: Low Tilt question

Post by jobowl » January 31st, 2020, 11:50 pm

When you say shorter pins on Asymmetric balls...how short do you mean like 2 3/4 to 4 inches ? How long on Symmetric balls like 4 to 5 1/2 inches
ball speed 17.5
rev rate 270
axis tilt 7 degrees
axis rotation 80 degrees
pap 5 over 1 1/16 up

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EricHartwell
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Posts: 3682
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous
Medium Oil Ball: Motiv Villain, Hammer Nail, Brunswick True Motion
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer, Columbia Nitrous
Location: Michigan

Re: Low Tilt question

Post by EricHartwell » February 1st, 2020, 1:55 am

You can go as low as 1-1/2" on the Asymmetricals. The shorter the pin the later it will achieve roll.
4- to 5 1/2 is a good guideline for Symmetricals. A good range for you.

It doesn't mean you can't be outside of the range. Especially on a ball for specific conditions. Example is what is referred to as Sport layouts.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand

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