Jr Gold Arsenal for U15 Lefty Two Handed No Thumb Girl

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TonyPR
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Jr Gold Arsenal for U15 Lefty Two Handed No Thumb Girl

Post by TonyPR » March 22nd, 2019, 10:30 pm

Long title but I know this one’s gonna be interesting indeed. My daughter just won the Pepsi here in PR and got herself a spot to play the 2019 Jr Gold in Detroit... needless to say, as a coach I am in full Jr Gold mode again. She didn’t go last year as she decided to change to two hands October 2017 as the hurricane got her time to reflect on her game and because she didn’t want to deal with her thumb anymore she decided it was a good idea to just take it out. This was like a new beginning and she was fine with the score drop so we went to work. Fast forward to today we have a 16.5 mph OTH, 375 rpms lefty who won the Pepsi with an average of 171 in six games on WTBA London and got the high game of 223 on the tournament. I know we need to work hard as Jr Gold is the most brutal tournament there is and to make match play last year the avg was 185.

Her specs:
PAP 6 x 3.25 down lefty
0* tilt
375 rpms / 16.5 mph OTH
Axis Rotation can play up the back al the way up to 45*

Patterns, as creative as they get, just check out last years:
https://www.bowl.com/Junior_Gold/Junior ... 8_Results/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Plus they don’t reveal them, plus you can only adjust surface on your hotel, plus you only get 5 balls.

Needless to say the arsenal needs to be very versatile and for flat challenging sport patterns.

Bowling centers she will play in Detroit:
-Thunderbowl Lanes
-Century Bowl
-Sterling Lanes
-Superbowl Lanes
Any info on these bowling centers will be greatly appreciated.

Want recommendations on 4 balls as she needs her plastic for spares.
Rolls 12 lbs

She currently has a Widow Urethane 65 x 4 3/4 x 35 that rolls great for her

Please advise

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EricHartwell
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Re: Jr Gold Arsenal for U15 Lefty Two Handed No Thumb Girl

Post by EricHartwell » March 23rd, 2019, 12:20 am

It has been many years since I have bowled in Detroit. When we bowled State tournament there my game was much different than it is today. I had some success there and don't remember anything that would say there was anything out of the ordinary. There are some lanes here in Michigan that have stuck in my memory, bad memories, none of them in Detroit.

When I model layouts for her I see the initial track rolling over the middle finger.
Is her PAP taken from the 65-4 3/4-35 Black Widow Urethane?

Sweetspot 115* Totals, 3:1 Ratio
Benchmark ............. 80-2.75-30

I don't normally recommend bowling balls but I have researched the lighter weight equipment for my own game.

Motiv Villain (solid) ................... 70-4-25, factory 3000 grit, Totally Strong

Motiv Villain Scorn (pearl) .......... 90-2.5-45, factory 5000 grit, Control

Drill the fingers shallow so as not to pull the PSA towards them.
These have some good core numbers for 12#
Rg. 2.64
Differential .036
Int Diff. .013

Columbia 300 Nitrous ..........xx-5-30 drill the fingers deep, 4000 grit, low flare
Available in many different color schemes, Thus is my go to weak reactive.
2.63 Rg
.030 Differential
Eric Hartwell

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PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand

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kajmk
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Re: Jr Gold Arsenal for U15 Lefty Two Handed No Thumb Girl

Post by kajmk » March 23rd, 2019, 9:40 pm

Tony, congratulations to your daughter, no doubt she has had top notch coaching.
Buena Suerte !
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so

There should be a rule of war saying you have to see someone up close and get to know 'em before it's ok to shoot 'em

Empathize

John

TonyPR
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Re: Jr Gold Arsenal for U15 Lefty Two Handed No Thumb Girl

Post by TonyPR » March 25th, 2019, 12:44 pm

Thank you Eric and kajmk, I am super happy, not only for my daughter but also for an excuse for a family trip. We had a great time at Cleveland on 2017 and I am glad we’re going again.

I am trying to do some research on the 4 bowling centers, here’s what I have so far:

Thunderbowl Lanes: lanes 1-20 are called the arena and are high friction synthetics, lanes 41-94 are Brunswick Pro, Lanes 21-39 are called the Cosmic Arcade and I have no idea what the surface is although I suspect Brunswick Pro.

Superbowl lanes: ???
Sterling lanes: ???
Century Bowl: ???

If anyone in the Michigan area knows what surfaces these centers have please let me know.

Thanks for the layouts Eric, PAP was taken from a modern Blue Hammer 110 x 4.5 x 35 it’s a control ball. So far this and the Widow Urethane are great balls to play straighter, the Widow’s good for higher volume and the Blue is her house shot killer.

Other balls in her arsenal:
Turbo R (Purple/Red/Silver) 45 x 6 5/8 x 25 (this one was laid out using a 4” span center of span PAP and has a 15/16 x 4 hole where the thumb would be) 2000 grit, super early rolling, currently not usable. This layout was an accident as somewhere along the way her PAP changed drastically after drilling this ball. I suspect it’s so early rolling because due to the super long pin to pap the cover takes over the reaction, it’s a GB2 cover. You get a lot of bang for your buck with this ball. Thinking about plugging and redrilling or just keeping it the way it is in case we find a 50ml 58’ pattern :lol:

Destiny Pearl 500/1000/polish 65 x 8 1/8 x 30 again another layout accident due to a drastic change in PAP. Skid flip would be an understatement but because this ball goes long, if she can open up her angles it destroys the rack. Not much margin for error though. It’s got a super strong cover (Phenom Pearl cover) and I believe the reaction will benefit a lot by using the core in a more “traditional” way. Definitely plugging and redrilling this one.

Will study those balls you recommended. Got a Pitch Black on the way just because urethane reacts well for her and have heard great things about it.

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EricHartwell
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Medium Oil Ball: Motiv Villain, Hammer Nail, Brunswick True Motion
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer, Columbia Nitrous
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Re: Jr Gold Arsenal for U15 Lefty Two Handed No Thumb Girl

Post by EricHartwell » March 25th, 2019, 9:22 pm

TonyPR wrote:Got a Pitch Black on the way just because urethane reacts well for her and have heard great things about it.
Her existing Urethanes flare more than the Pitch Black will.
She will need to learn how to use her carrydown to her advantage using the Pitch Black. It will make for great defensive bowling if there are bowlers playing inside her line.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand

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EricHartwell
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Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous
Medium Oil Ball: Motiv Villain, Hammer Nail, Brunswick True Motion
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer, Columbia Nitrous
Location: Michigan

Re: Jr Gold Arsenal for U15 Lefty Two Handed No Thumb Girl

Post by EricHartwell » March 25th, 2019, 9:23 pm

TonyPR wrote:Got a Pitch Black on the way just because urethane reacts well for her and have heard great things about it.
Her existing Urethanes flare more than the Pitch Black will.
She will need to learn how to use the carrydown to her advantage using the Pitch Black.
It will make for great defensive bowling if there are bowlers playing inside her line.

Have you thought about calling the lanes and asking them or maybe the proshop would be a better source of info than the front counter of the house.
Last edited by EricHartwell on March 25th, 2019, 10:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Eric Hartwell

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PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand

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Re: Jr Gold Arsenal for U15 Lefty Two Handed No Thumb Girl

Post by TonyPR » March 25th, 2019, 10:16 pm

Yea, I think I’ll do that (call the pro shops) may be overthinking but I enjoy this.

The Widow Urethane will definitely be in the bag as well as her plastic. One of the reasons I ordered the Pitch Black is to have a ball similar to the Blue Hammer that will take surface changes better, the Blue lane shines too quickly so I don’t even bother lowering the grit. The Blue rolls very good for her on lower volume/ higher friction lanes but is not very useful when there’s some volume. I only want to take two bags as to keep things simple. Will probably drill the Pitch Black the same as the Blue Hammer.

Going to plug the Destiny Pearl. What layout would you use on it? Was thinking symm control.

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EricHartwell
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Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
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Rev Rate: 330
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Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous
Medium Oil Ball: Motiv Villain, Hammer Nail, Brunswick True Motion
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer, Columbia Nitrous
Location: Michigan

Re: Jr Gold Arsenal for U15 Lefty Two Handed No Thumb Girl

Post by EricHartwell » March 25th, 2019, 11:12 pm

Destiny Pearl 12#, 2.60 Rg, .053 differential (WOW)
With the Game Breaker coverstock, that's a lot of ball at 12 pounds.
I was quite surprised when I looked it up.

130-4-55
Tonys daughter 130-4-55.JPG
With the flare potential of this ball I predict the first flare ring will not be on the middle finger.
This could be an option for Long Oil. A Strong enough layout and core combination the the core will definitely engage in the hook/roll phase giving her a very strong backend reaction.

105-4.75-40
Tonys daughter 105-4.75-40.JPG
This would be more usable on a wider variety of patterns.
Still enough flare to get the core to engage as it is hitting the pocket.
Start with just the ring finger drilled deeper with the option of drilling the middle deeper to increase the reaction.
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PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand

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Re: Jr Gold Arsenal for U15 Lefty Two Handed No Thumb Girl

Post by TonyPR » March 25th, 2019, 11:53 pm

I think I’m gonna go with option 2, versatility is key and that cover takes surface changes well so I can always lower the grit.

There’s a few balls in 12-13 lbs with good numbers on the EBI family. The Widow Urethane uses the gas mask core, don’t know why the other Widows don’t. The Destiny line also offers a solid, both balls have the Cyclone core with the GB2 Phenom Pearl or Solid cover which are stronger covers than the regular GB2. The Turbo R has a weaker core but still in the .030s diff and has the regular GB2 Cover. Ebonite really offers a lot of bang for your buck in their low end stuff

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EricHartwell
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Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer, Columbia Nitrous
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Re: Jr Gold Arsenal for U15 Lefty Two Handed No Thumb Girl

Post by EricHartwell » March 26th, 2019, 1:46 am

I was getting information out of them on their ball designs until I asked the question...
Are you sharing core designs between the brands?
The return emails stopped.

The core numbers for Rg and differential were identical so my assumption was the same core. The example was the 2.53 Rg, .055 diff offered at 13#. It was a modified design taken from the original Diesel series. The new Diesel series uses a new core design for the lighter weights. I personally am disappointed in the new .030 diff core they are using now, it needs balance holes. The .055 diff core was used in the new Blue Hammer and the Older Vibes, the Track Mako, Paradox, Tundra and the Columbia Eruption, Saber, Savage, Lit and Chaos. There may be more but these are the ones I know about today.
Hammer stopped using that core and now the other brands seem to be using it.
If I was to look into other cores I'm guessing I will find others that line up between brands.

With all that said it is nice to see that the cores are getting better in the lighter weights for many of the brands even though Hammer has gone the other way not counting the Widow Urethane.
Eric Hartwell

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PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand

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Re: Jr Gold Arsenal for U15 Lefty Two Handed No Thumb Girl

Post by TonyPR » March 26th, 2019, 2:08 am

I like that Hammer and Storm are actually posting pictures of their cores in all weights. The new Storm Crux Prime looks like it has the same core in the lighter weights.

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Medium Oil Ball: Motiv Villain, Hammer Nail, Brunswick True Motion
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer, Columbia Nitrous
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Re: Jr Gold Arsenal for U15 Lefty Two Handed No Thumb Girl

Post by EricHartwell » March 26th, 2019, 2:13 am

It is nice to know what core shape you are working with.
To bad Storms lighter weight numbers don't match up to the heavier weights.
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16 mph off hand

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Re: Jr Gold Arsenal for U15 Lefty Two Handed No Thumb Girl

Post by TonyPR » March 26th, 2019, 2:15 am

Oops, checked the numbers, the Crux Prime seems to have the same generic asymmetrical core numbers as the Physix although the pictures in the Crux Prime core all look the same.

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Re: Jr Gold Arsenal for U15 Lefty Two Handed No Thumb Girl

Post by ICURNVS » July 23rd, 2019, 3:33 pm

How did your Daughter do at Jr Gold?

It was a rough week for my boy, I do believe he vastly underestimated how hard the patterns were gonna be.

The upside is that he is now more determined than ever to get better.
** UPDATED STATS AS OF 6-06-19 **
Right Hand
PAP 4 1/2-> 3/4 up
ROTATION 20 - 30
TILT 11.5*
MPH 14.5-15.2 MONITOR
RPM 350-375
RIP Visionary Bowling Products.....

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Re: Jr Gold Arsenal for U15 Lefty Two Handed No Thumb Girl

Post by kajmk » July 23rd, 2019, 6:37 pm

ICURNVS wrote:How did your Daughter do at Jr Gold?

It was a rough week for my boy, I do believe he vastly underestimated how hard the patterns were gonna be.

The upside is that he is now more determined than ever to get better.
Speaks well for his character.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so

There should be a rule of war saying you have to see someone up close and get to know 'em before it's ok to shoot 'em

Empathize

John

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Posts: 415
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THS Average: 220
Positive Axis Point: 4 1/2 -> 3/4 up
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Rev Rate: 375
Axis Tilt: 11
Axis Rotation: 30
Heavy Oil Ball: Crux Prime / Intense
Medium Oil Ball: MVP / Wild Streak
Light Oil Ball: Hyroad X / INK
Location: Canton, Ohio

Re: Jr Gold Arsenal for U15 Lefty Two Handed No Thumb Girl

Post by ICURNVS » July 24th, 2019, 2:05 pm

kajmk wrote:Speaks well for his character.
Thank you.

and yes.. he takes his bowling very serious. His mistake was underestimating how hard this was going to be.
** UPDATED STATS AS OF 6-06-19 **
Right Hand
PAP 4 1/2-> 3/4 up
ROTATION 20 - 30
TILT 11.5*
MPH 14.5-15.2 MONITOR
RPM 350-375
RIP Visionary Bowling Products.....

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Re: Jr Gold Arsenal for U15 Lefty Two Handed No Thumb Girl

Post by TonyPR » July 25th, 2019, 11:16 pm

ICURNVS wrote:How did your Daughter do at Jr Gold?

It was a rough week for my boy, I do believe he vastly underestimated how hard the patterns were gonna be.

The upside is that he is now more determined than ever to get better.
She did really, really bad. Fortunately she took it as a learning experience and an assessment of where she’s at and how hard she has to work to do better next year, she’s really looking forward to next year in Vegas and has already started training.

As a competitor this tournament can either break you or make you stronger. As a coach I was able to do some pretty neat field research on what works and what doesn’t.

Overall we had a great time in Detroit

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Re: Jr Gold Arsenal for U15 Lefty Two Handed No Thumb Girl

Post by kajmk » July 29th, 2019, 4:04 am

Tony, kudos to your daughter on her attitude and resolve.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so

There should be a rule of war saying you have to see someone up close and get to know 'em before it's ok to shoot 'em

Empathize

John

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