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 Post subject: PSA on a Symmetric Ball for No Thumb Bowlers
 Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:27 am Post Number: #1 Post
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I was watching a seminar that MO Pinel put out that is on you tube about The New Reality of Ball Motion.

https://youtu.be/rOOZdetR2Fs

In the video MO states that the placement of the CG has no affect on ball motion on a symmetrically drilled ball due to the PSA remaining at or near the thumb hole and had video to prove this point. MO also stated that what mattered was pin to PAP distance and the val angle to control ball motion. This is due to the new changes by the USBC since the CG was previously used to place balance holes and now they will be illegal. The seminar also talked about axis migration and pin to spin line and how moving the pin to spin line closer to the PAP will cause the ball to rev sooner which is virtually impossible to do on a symmetrical ball without a balance hole since the PSA will always be near the thumb regardless of where the PSA was located prior to drilling.

This got me to thinking if I could use the old way of finding the PSA of an undrilled ball by marking a spot 6 3/4 away from the pin through the CG and using this info to alter ball motion since I do not have a thumb hole drilled into the ball? The PSA can't move to the thumb hole if it isn't drilled.

How much of an affect does drilling the finger holes have on PSA location, if any at all, when thumb hole is not drilled into the ball?

In my particular case is it worth spinning the ball to determine the PSA before drilling in order to place it in a certain spot to change ball motion or just use the old way to find the PSA?

The seminar was interesting to watch and a big thanks to MO for putting it on and for what you have done for this sport!

Jason


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 Post subject: Re: PSA on a Symmetric Ball for No Thumb Bowlers
 Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:34 am Post Number: #2 Post
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Two-handers without a thumbhole: the finger holes are the only way to create a PSA, AFAIK.
If you drill the finger holes deep @ 6.75" from the pin, you can predict the axis migration path; otherwise it's a shot in the dark.
Not sure that the VAL angle is an issue like it is with traditional grips.

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 Post subject: Re: PSA on a Symmetric Ball for No Thumb Bowlers
 Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:56 pm Post Number: #3 Post
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I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I just viewed Mo's video. I was particularly interested in the Axis Migration discussion. And, I reviewed the related materials in the USBC Motion Analysis Form.

I guess my question is how to interpret the information gleaned from finding the PAP at the Release, Break-point, and Pins with an Armadillo. You measure the distance from PAP @ Release to PAP @ Break-point, measuring the distance from PAP @ Break-point to PAP @ Pins, and getting the Total Axis Migration; and, then measure the Pin to PAP @ Release, Pin to PAP @ Break-point, and Pin to PAP @ Pins distances. Mo talks about the importance of getting these six (6) measurements (USBC form is only interested in the three (3) PAP measurements). But what can you do with them?

Looking at the Pin-to-Spin line, he states that the more the ball flares in the oil, the sooner your break-point; the more the ball flares in the dry, the later and sharper your break-point.

But is there more information regarding ball motion to be gleaned from these numbers that I missed? Do the values and ratios of these numbers have any significance that I have missed? Etc?


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 Post subject: Re: PSA on a Symmetric Ball for No Thumb Bowlers
 Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:22 pm Post Number: #4 Post
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snick wrote:
Two-handers without a thumbhole: the finger holes are the only way to create a PSA, AFAIK.
If you drill the finger holes deep @ 6.75" from the pin, you can predict the axis migration path; otherwise it's a shot in the dark.
Not sure that the VAL angle is an issue like it is with traditional grips.


When you reference the val angle are you talking about too high of an angle causing the ball to flare over the gripping holes?

Could you please elaborate on how the finger holes would create the PSA in your example? Also how would the PSA differ if moving the center of grip below or above the pin while still keeping 6.75" distance. Keep in mind in my case I'm talking way below or way above pin on that same radius as with my 6 1/4" PAP I would have to move it that far to get a low flare layout with a long pin to PAP rather than short pin to PAP.

Glenn,
No worries as I would like to know as well.


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 Post subject: Re: PSA on a Symmetric Ball for No Thumb Bowlers
 Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:23 pm Post Number: #5 Post
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PSA is the high RG axis, typically located 6.75" from the low RG axis (pin)

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PAP: 5.625" x 0
REVRATE: 360
SPEED: 17mph at release
AR: 55º
AT: 7º


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