The 2018 Urethane Ball Thread

Bowling ball related topics including new products, arsenals and comparisons.

Moderator: Moderators

Locked
TonyPR
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 1331
Joined: December 14th, 2014, 3:08 am
Preferred Company: Radical
Location: San Juan, PR

The 2018 Urethane Ball Thread

Post by TonyPR » January 1st, 2018, 4:30 am

Rock on guys and gals! Happy new year!

User avatar
Nord
Member
Member
Posts: 771
Joined: September 8th, 2012, 9:12 am
THS Average: 180
Speed: 12-14 mph at Foul Line
Rev Rate: 120
Axis Tilt: 0
Axis Rotation: 90
Heavy Oil Ball: Visionary Midnight Scorcher Particle Urethane
Medium Oil Ball: DV8 Poison
Light Oil Ball: Brunswick True Motion

Re: The 2018 Urethane Ball Thread

Post by Nord » January 1st, 2018, 10:08 am

Just want to bring over the main points we learned last year in the 2017 Urethane Ball Thread so we have a basis to move forward from.
Happy New Year to you all!
TonyPR
Some interesting points of view have been stated and here are my current points of view:
-Urethane reads early and helps in controlling backend reaction yet with symmetric balls you have to keep your angles straighter, not so much with asymmetric balls such as the Hot Cell or Widow yet recovery is never as good as with reactives.
-Urethane works great for high speed, high rev players
-Urethane works good on flatter sport patterns when the outside is in play, especially in high volume short sport patterns.
-Urethane is not the best choice for most on a house shot where if you can roll reactive from the oil to the dry you will most likely have more margin of error.
-Nord loves urethane and for his unique style it seems to work for him
-Urethane is a must for a high rev two hander's arsenal
-There are other options to create the early smooth urethane reaction with reactive balls but knowledge of what ball, surface and layout to use is necessary.
-Urethane can make transition difficult for those not using urethane and sometimes even for those who are using urethane.
-Many times the adjustment for transition with urethane is further outside and faster, other times it's a little inside with your eyes
-People may complain urethane will ruin a pattern but can't legally make someone stop using it so the best strategy is to learn how to deal with the difficult conditions created.
-Team players should have caution not to ruin the pattern for fellow team mates.
-Hammer makes the best urethane balls (my opinion)
Full Roller
Axis Rotation: 90
Axis Tilt: 0
PAP: 6 3/16 x 2 5/8
Rev rate: 135
Ball speed: 12 mph at launch
Composite Average: 180
High Game: 259 bowled with Billy Hardwick rubber ball. The back 9.
High Series: 683 clean using the DV8 Poison Solid.

User avatar
Nord
Member
Member
Posts: 771
Joined: September 8th, 2012, 9:12 am
THS Average: 180
Speed: 12-14 mph at Foul Line
Rev Rate: 120
Axis Tilt: 0
Axis Rotation: 90
Heavy Oil Ball: Visionary Midnight Scorcher Particle Urethane
Medium Oil Ball: DV8 Poison
Light Oil Ball: Brunswick True Motion

Re: The 2018 Urethane Ball Thread

Post by Nord » January 1st, 2018, 10:22 pm

Hello All,

Below is a photo of my 2018 Urethane Arsenal.
I start a new season in doubles league on Jan 8 and will only be using these balls to see how I average.
From left to right:
Strong: Visionary Midnight Scorcher Particle Urethane at stock 320 grit.
Medium: Hammer Black Widow Urethane at stock 360/500 grit.
Weak: Hammer Purple Pearl Urethane at stock 500/1000/2000 grit.
Nord Urethane Arsenal.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Full Roller
Axis Rotation: 90
Axis Tilt: 0
PAP: 6 3/16 x 2 5/8
Rev rate: 135
Ball speed: 12 mph at launch
Composite Average: 180
High Game: 259 bowled with Billy Hardwick rubber ball. The back 9.
High Series: 683 clean using the DV8 Poison Solid.

User avatar
Nord
Member
Member
Posts: 771
Joined: September 8th, 2012, 9:12 am
THS Average: 180
Speed: 12-14 mph at Foul Line
Rev Rate: 120
Axis Tilt: 0
Axis Rotation: 90
Heavy Oil Ball: Visionary Midnight Scorcher Particle Urethane
Medium Oil Ball: DV8 Poison
Light Oil Ball: Brunswick True Motion

Re: The 2018 Urethane Ball Thread

Post by Nord » January 2nd, 2018, 2:00 am

I just wanted to include in this new thread the totally amazing tournament that ended the 2017 year of bowling.
It was a tournament where all but one player used urethane.
Let me just say it was one of the most exciting, nail biting and competitive tournaments I have seen in recent years.
It all came down to shot making ability and lane cunning.
I attribute the excitement and drama of this tournament entirely to urethane and its ability to force players to reach deep into their hearts and brains and find the very, very fine line to victory.
I got so much satisfaction watching this tournament and hope this says something to the PBA about the type of bowling that many of us want to see in the future.

[youtube][/youtube]
Full Roller
Axis Rotation: 90
Axis Tilt: 0
PAP: 6 3/16 x 2 5/8
Rev rate: 135
Ball speed: 12 mph at launch
Composite Average: 180
High Game: 259 bowled with Billy Hardwick rubber ball. The back 9.
High Series: 683 clean using the DV8 Poison Solid.

User avatar
Nord
Member
Member
Posts: 771
Joined: September 8th, 2012, 9:12 am
THS Average: 180
Speed: 12-14 mph at Foul Line
Rev Rate: 120
Axis Tilt: 0
Axis Rotation: 90
Heavy Oil Ball: Visionary Midnight Scorcher Particle Urethane
Medium Oil Ball: DV8 Poison
Light Oil Ball: Brunswick True Motion

Re: The 2018 Urethane Ball Thread

Post by Nord » January 2nd, 2018, 2:37 am

I deleted my previous Purple Hammer vid and re-uploaded a cleaner, sharper version which you can see here:

[youtube][/youtube]
Full Roller
Axis Rotation: 90
Axis Tilt: 0
PAP: 6 3/16 x 2 5/8
Rev rate: 135
Ball speed: 12 mph at launch
Composite Average: 180
High Game: 259 bowled with Billy Hardwick rubber ball. The back 9.
High Series: 683 clean using the DV8 Poison Solid.

TonyPR
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 1331
Joined: December 14th, 2014, 3:08 am
Preferred Company: Radical
Location: San Juan, PR

Re: The 2018 Urethane Ball Thread

Post by TonyPR » January 3rd, 2018, 12:13 am

I read somewhere here that the Widow Urethane sub 14# has a Diesel core. You can ask Hammer customer service, they answer emails very quickly.

RobMautner
Certified Coach
Certified Coach
Posts: 659
Joined: February 15th, 2016, 5:23 pm
Preferred Company: No Preference

Re: The 2018 Urethane Ball Thread

Post by RobMautner » January 3rd, 2018, 4:14 am

I think that Sunday's Tournament telecast speaks volumes about modern bowling balls. In this case, the fact that both bowlers on the right side were using urethane, and two out of three bowlers on the left side were using urethane while one was using reactive had a major impact on the outcome of the tournament.

Kyle and Belmo were both able to manage the transition, though Kyle got pretty lost in the second match. Ciminelli struggled during his first game, but was able to carve in a shot for his second match against Belmonte. The really telling shot in that game came in the tenth frame when, after striking twice, Ciminelli pulled the ball by less than half an inch, hit the urethane carry down on the left side left from the first game, and got only a seven count when he needed nine to win.

During the last game, Svenson battled the friction from Ciminelli's reactive ball to his left, and carry down from the first game to his right. The combination of balls used on the left side of the lane was a major determining factor (pardon the pun) in IMHO.

56bird
Member
Member
Posts: 479
Joined: April 18th, 2013, 11:55 am

Re: The 2018 Urethane Ball Thread

Post by 56bird » January 3rd, 2018, 11:37 am

EricHartwell wrote: Your drilling options will be limited with the Black Widow Urethane.
One you are said to be a full roller and two the core in the 12# Widow is Symmetrical and very weak.
Your best bet will be the aggressive full roller layout.

http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... ymmetrical" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I must have missed the 12# ball reference.

User avatar
bowl1820
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 1443
Joined: July 9th, 2012, 10:09 pm
Location: Central Florida

Re: The 2018 Urethane Ball Thread

Post by bowl1820 » January 3rd, 2018, 2:29 pm

World Series of Bowling IX Chronicles Part 15 - World Championship TV Finals Recap

The final episode of WSOB Chronicles explores before, during and after the 2017 PBA World Championship telecast, highlighting Jesper Svensson, Jason Belmonte, Ryan Ciminelli, Kyle Troup and Matt Sanders.

[youtube][/youtube]

Interesting was the conversation between Matt Sanders and his Rep. Rob Gotchall about using Urethane.

Matt saying it was reading early and Rob saying that was good because if it didn't, it would read in a different place everytime. He's got to play the front part of the lane more than the back part. Start with the strong urethane ball then ball down to the weaker one.
"REMEMBER, it isn't how much the ball hooks, it's where."

User avatar
bowl1820
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 1443
Joined: July 9th, 2012, 10:09 pm
Location: Central Florida

Re: The 2018 Urethane Ball Thread

Post by bowl1820 » January 3rd, 2018, 3:12 pm

RobMautner wrote:The really telling shot in that game came in the tenth frame when, after striking twice, Ciminelli pulled the ball by less than half an inch, hit the urethane carry down on the left side left from the first game, and got only a seven count when he needed nine to win.
In the tenth frame yes he needed two strikes and a 9 count to win, but he got two strikes and a 8 count for the tie.

The seven count was in the roll off.

On that 8 count yes he pulled it and hit the nose. I don't think it carrydown had anything to do with that.

As for the 7 count The three balls before that, he's was putting some hand into them. But that 7 count ball watch his hand, he took some off that ball (Probably because he hit the nose on that 8 count) and IMO that's why it hung out there. (Now he may have leaked it out a half inch and hit a streak of carry also I can't say)


Update:
Okay so the Specto said a half inch (.4) and the speed and rev were fine.
cimbelrecap.png
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by bowl1820 on January 3rd, 2018, 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"REMEMBER, it isn't how much the ball hooks, it's where."

User avatar
flibblesh
Member
Member
Posts: 69
Joined: November 4th, 2014, 9:05 am
Preferred Company: Radical

Re: The 2018 Urethane Ball Thread

Post by flibblesh » January 3rd, 2018, 3:17 pm

bowl1820 wrote:
In the tenth frame yes he needed two strikes and a 9 count to win, but he got two strikes and a 8 count for the tie.

The seven count was in the roll off.

On that 8 count yes he pulled it and hit the nose. I don't think it carrydown had anything to do with that.

As for the 7 count The three balls before that, he's was putting some hand into them. But that 7 count ball watch his hand, he took some off that ball (Probably because he hit the nose on that 8 count) and IMO that's why it hung out there. (Now he may have leaked it out a half inch and hit a streak of carry also I can't say)
It was quoted in the video after the playoff - his revs/speed were fine, the only difference was 0.4 of a board.
Steven Bourgaize

Rev Rate: Roughly 300
Ball Weight: 15lb
PAP: Smear
Span: Teeny

User avatar
bowl1820
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 1443
Joined: July 9th, 2012, 10:09 pm
Location: Central Florida

Re: The 2018 Urethane Ball Thread

Post by bowl1820 » January 3rd, 2018, 3:40 pm

flibblesh wrote:
It was quoted in the video after the playoff - his revs/speed were fine, the only difference was 0.4 of a board.
Maybe so, I can't see a .4 of a inch of a board on a tv. I'm going by just what I can see and watching him the form of his release was different on that shot.

But hey if that's what they say then fine I wrong.
"REMEMBER, it isn't how much the ball hooks, it's where."

TonyPR
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 1331
Joined: December 14th, 2014, 3:08 am
Preferred Company: Radical
Location: San Juan, PR

Re: The 2018 Urethane Ball Thread

Post by TonyPR » January 3rd, 2018, 4:40 pm

They are now using Specto for the TV shows, I will see if I can find the facebook post that shows the data. Funny I said it a while back around February after a trip to Kegel that the PBA would start using it and nobody reacted. Specto will show spectators more how good these guys really are.

User avatar
bowl1820
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 1443
Joined: July 9th, 2012, 10:09 pm
Location: Central Florida

Re: The 2018 Urethane Ball Thread

Post by bowl1820 » January 3rd, 2018, 4:47 pm

TonyPR wrote:They are now using Specto for the TV shows, I will see if I can find the facebook post that shows the data. Funny I said it a while back around February after a trip to Kegel that the PBA would start using it and nobody reacted. Specto will show spectators more how good these guys really are.
The Specto system looks great, I got the app on my Ipad. To bad it's useless for now, You just about can count on one hand the number of places in the country that have it in stalled. lets see 21, they added some.
cimbelrecap.png
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
"REMEMBER, it isn't how much the ball hooks, it's where."

RobMautner
Certified Coach
Certified Coach
Posts: 659
Joined: February 15th, 2016, 5:23 pm
Preferred Company: No Preference

Re: The 2018 Urethane Ball Thread

Post by RobMautner » January 3rd, 2018, 7:23 pm

bowl1820 wrote:
Maybe so, I can't see a .4 of a inch of a board on a tv. I'm going by just what I can see and watching him the form of his release was different on that shot.

But hey if that's what they say then fine I wrong.
I was going by what Ryan said in the interview after the game. When he threw the shot, he said something like, "Yea, that's aces"! In the interview he said that he thought he threw the shot perfectly, and afterward they looked at the shot tracker and found that he had missed right by 4/10 of an inch.

User avatar
Nord
Member
Member
Posts: 771
Joined: September 8th, 2012, 9:12 am
THS Average: 180
Speed: 12-14 mph at Foul Line
Rev Rate: 120
Axis Tilt: 0
Axis Rotation: 90
Heavy Oil Ball: Visionary Midnight Scorcher Particle Urethane
Medium Oil Ball: DV8 Poison
Light Oil Ball: Brunswick True Motion

Re: The 2018 Urethane Ball Thread

Post by Nord » January 4th, 2018, 5:33 am

I was highly impressed by Belmo and his lane smithing.
He was using a ball that gave him no margin for error.
He understood that carrydown would be an issue.
He knew he needed to find that tiny line that would keep the ball on line, but also provide sufficient friction to strike.
During his first match you could see him working this out.
After going light, then high, then light, then light again, you could hear him say, "Ok, we're right in the middle of those."
Amazing how he sees it and figures it out on his own. Smart and talented!
He then eventually made the classic urethane move which is to move his line right and throw harder allowing the carrydown line he made to the left to prevent his ball from going high on misses left.
Overall an amazing performance by one of the best ever.
He has my respect.
Full Roller
Axis Rotation: 90
Axis Tilt: 0
PAP: 6 3/16 x 2 5/8
Rev rate: 135
Ball speed: 12 mph at launch
Composite Average: 180
High Game: 259 bowled with Billy Hardwick rubber ball. The back 9.
High Series: 683 clean using the DV8 Poison Solid.

User avatar
mrbean
Member
Member
Posts: 206
Joined: September 24th, 2015, 9:09 pm
THS Average: 150
Speed: 12-14 mph camera
Heavy Oil Ball: kingpin, awesome finish, grind, crank, super carbide bomb,
Medium Oil Ball: soniq, grind/r, primal rage remix
Light Oil Ball: anything that works
Preferred Company: lane #1
Location: cincinnati, OH

Re: The 2018 Urethane Ball Thread

Post by mrbean » January 5th, 2018, 12:40 am

are any of the older urethane balls still useful today for anything more than spare balls? here are some that i saw.
black hammer.
scarlet quantum.
AMF yellow angle.
ebonite gyro 1.
manhattan rubber urethane.
ebonite avenger.
brunswick phantom.
columbia 300 u2 classic.
If I had 6 hours to chop down a tree I would spend the first 4 sharpening the axe.

-Honest Abe

User avatar
MegaMav
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4528
Joined: April 27th, 2007, 5:00 am
THS Average: 230
Sport Average: 200
Positive Axis Point: 5.25 Over 5/8 Up
Speed: 15.25 MPH - Camera
Rev Rate: 350
Axis Tilt: 20
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical - The Closer
Medium Oil Ball: Brunswck - Forest Quantum
Light Oil Ball: DV8 - Poison Pearl
Preferred Company: Radical Bowling Technologies
Location: Malta, NY

Re: The 2018 Urethane Ball Thread

Post by MegaMav » January 5th, 2018, 2:06 am

AMF Sumo.
I love mine, but never use it other than practice.
“When you prepare for everything, you’re ready for anything.” - Bill Walsh

User avatar
EricHartwell
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 3637
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous
Medium Oil Ball: Motiv Villain, Hammer Nail, Brunswick True Motion
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer, Columbia Nitrous
Location: Michigan

Re: The 2018 Urethane Ball Thread

Post by EricHartwell » January 5th, 2018, 3:58 am

mrbean wrote:are any of the older urethane balls still useful today for anything more than spare balls? here are some that i saw.
black hammer.
scarlet quantum.
AMF yellow angle.
ebonite gyro 1.
manhattan rubber urethane.
ebonite avenger.
brunswick phantom.
columbia 300 u2 classic.
I lost my Black Phantom to a bowling alley fire, If I still had it And If I was rolling 15# it would surely be in use as a strike ball today. It had way too muck back end movement to use for spares.
If Brunswick brings it back in their Vintage line I will surely get one.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand

User avatar
BigDog
Member
Member
Posts: 30
Joined: April 27th, 2014, 3:08 am

Re: The 2018 Urethane Ball Thread

Post by BigDog » January 5th, 2018, 5:44 am

I actually won a tournament the weekend before Christmas using my original black angle. I often use it in the third game in league as well. I bring it with me every time I bowl.

I was able to pick up another 16 lb. NIB one a couple of weeks ago on eBay for $65 + $25 shipping. I lost out on a blue hammer and a black hammer from the same seller.

Locked