If I Was A “Pro”......

Bowling ball related topics including new products, arsenals and comparisons.

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soupy1957
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If I Was A “Pro”......

Post by soupy1957 » April 8th, 2018, 7:29 pm

If I was a “Pro,”.........I can imagine knowing, or seeking to know information about my ball and my personal control of it, in categories like:

Positive Axis Point
Speed
Rev Rate
Axis Rotation
Axis Tilt

On the other hand (and “no,” I have absolutely NO idea about ANY of those pieces of information about me OR my ball) I can’t even begin to fathom “how” that information is calculated, much less how to apply it to my game.

About the only level of sophistication I have, in the world of “bowling,” is the knowledge that I have picked up about having more than one ball for variable lane conditions, and fatigue.
“Perfection is only a delusion; a lack of personality!” - sdc

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JJakobsen
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Sport Average: 180
Positive Axis Point: 3 1/2 right, 1 1/2 up
Speed: 15.5 downlane
Rev Rate: 450
Axis Tilt: 0
Axis Rotation: 30
Heavy Oil Ball: Storm Timeless
Medium Oil Ball: Brunswick Inferno
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Re: If I Was A “Pro”......

Post by JJakobsen » April 8th, 2018, 8:27 pm

All of those factors are vital to your game and success, and they are there whether you know what they are or not. Reading up on what they are, what they do, and what range is good to be in on these specs is often worth it, itll give you more understanding of why one shot strikes and one doesnt when they seem very similar.

Speed is easy, most often on the screen
PAP is an imaginary point on the ball which is the point the ball spins around when you release the ball, before the core turns the ball (which is shown as flare). Opposite of the Positive Axis Point is the NAP, negative Axis Point. These two make an imaginary line through the ball which is handy to be able to imagine in your head to see axis rotation and tilt. The PAP is easy to see, ad it is the point of the ball that doesnt spin around in the start. If you go into Nords Full Roller Thread, I made an image of how to find your PAP. Put a tape there, and see and learn. Remember it has to be removed in competition.

Rev rate is also pretty straight forward in what it is, calculation isnt too bad, BUT I wont type that from my phone lol.

Axis rotation is the angle of your PAP compared to the ball direction. If you play straight down 2nd arrow, and the PAP is towards you, you got 90 degrees. If the ball is rolling straight down the lane, so the PAP is pointing to the lane to the left of you, you got 0° axis rotation. 30°-60° is the common range.

Axis tiit is how far up on the ball the PAP is. If it is 90°, the ball spins like a spinning top, if you got 0°, the ball rolls using the full circumference like a tire.
68.2353°N 14.5636°E is where it happens!

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JJakobsen
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Posts: 262
Joined: March 10th, 2013, 9:59 pm
Sport Average: 180
Positive Axis Point: 3 1/2 right, 1 1/2 up
Speed: 15.5 downlane
Rev Rate: 450
Axis Tilt: 0
Axis Rotation: 30
Heavy Oil Ball: Storm Timeless
Medium Oil Ball: Brunswick Inferno
Light Oil Ball: 900 Global Shadow Ops
Preferred Company: 900 Global
Location: Svolvær, Lofoten, Norway

Re: If I Was A “Pro”......

Post by JJakobsen » April 8th, 2018, 8:30 pm

And negative tilt is also possible, as a right hander it means you release the ball with your hand following through to the left. Two handers often see this, as well as me for some odd reason. But that is rare, especially for players using their thumb
68.2353°N 14.5636°E is where it happens!

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soupy1957
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Re: If I Was A “Pro”......

Post by soupy1957 » April 8th, 2018, 8:45 pm

I appreciate the time you took to explain to me the different categories and what they’re all about. I’ve read up on those categories and kind of glazed over the information I saw there, like I did with what you told me. It wasn’t because I wasn’t interested because I am, but I just don’t have an engineers mind I guess.

To me, as long as I have the right weight ball, and I have it drilled out properly for my hand span, I’m just going to keep going out there to the lane and keep working with it until I figure out how to make it work right. I know I’ve got to hit the pocket, and I understand that if you come in typically at 3° you’re going to generally get a strike, whether you’re on the Brooklyn side or not, and that’s about the extent of my diagnosis of the game.

If I were to hire a professional to take me through a serious training regime, and check out every detail about my game, I would fully expect that he would put all those numbers and pieces of information together, and just tell me, “do this,” and that would be good enough for me.

It’s kind a like, when I play around of golf, the scorecard goes in my back pocket. I’m less interested in the minutia, and more interested in the fun.
“Perfection is only a delusion; a lack of personality!” - sdc

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EricHartwell
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Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous
Medium Oil Ball: Motiv Villain, Hammer Nail, Brunswick True Motion
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer, Columbia Nitrous
Location: Michigan

Re: If I Was A “Pro”......

Post by EricHartwell » April 8th, 2018, 11:53 pm

soupy1957 wrote:If I was a “Pro,”.........I can imagine knowing, or seeking to know information about my ball and my personal control of it, in categories like:

Positive Axis Point
Speed
Rev Rate
Axis Rotation
Axis Tilt

On the other hand (and “no,” I have absolutely NO idea about ANY of those pieces of information about me OR my ball) I can’t even begin to fathom “how” that information is calculated, much less how to apply it to my game.

About the only level of sophistication I have, in the world of “bowling,” is the knowledge that I have picked up about having more than one ball for variable lane conditions, and fatigue.
Most of this information is fairly easy to figure out and you by no means need to be a Pro to figure it out.
Check out this link...
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=373" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I believe your PAP to be the single most important piece of information needed. Layouts from ball to ball can be adjusted accordingly as long as they are based off the same point. Eventually an effective arsenal can be put together. Unfortunately there is trial and error involved when you don't know all the rest of your release specs. A good ball driller can figure out the layouts as long as he knows where your PAP is. He should figure this out for you so you really don't need to know this either.

Will knowing that info make you a better bowler? Not necessarily, but it helps set up multiple ball arsenals that are tuned to your release and can make switching balls a more effective adjustment within your game. It is information for your Proshop operator to use when drilling balls for you.

As a bowler just trying to enjoy the game I would say being able to recognize ball motion, Skid, Hook and Roll will be the best thing for you to seek information on. Along with this is the use of different surfaces on your ball/balls to effectively change that motion. Again your proshop operator should be a valuable resource when it comes to tuning your equipment with surface adjustments.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand

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Re: If I Was A “Pro”......

Post by TonyPR » April 10th, 2018, 2:36 pm

http://above180.com/category/ball-drill ... es-series/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Start at the bottom of the page with part 1 and don’t go to part 2 until you understand part 1 and so on. Have pen and paper so you can take notes, all acronyms are defined here at BowlingChat (VAL, PAP, etc...) Very easy to understand, Mo’s a great teacher.

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Re: If I Was A “Pro”......

Post by Zman06 » April 10th, 2018, 2:43 pm

"I believe your PAP to be the single most important piece of information needed. Layouts from ball to ball can be adjusted accordingly as long as they are based off the same point."

With this being said. Say you drilled a ball and you love it and want to put that layout on another ball but your pap changed from when that ball was drilled. Is it better to either A. use the original dual angles with the new pap or B. find the new dual angles with the new pap and use that?

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Positive Axis Point: 4 15/16 Over 3/8 Up
Speed: 15.25 MPH - Camera
Rev Rate: 350
Axis Tilt: 14
Axis Rotation: 40
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical - The Closer
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Re: If I Was A “Pro”......

Post by MegaMav » April 10th, 2018, 2:48 pm

Zman06 wrote:"I believe your PAP to be the single most important piece of information needed. Layouts from ball to ball can be adjusted accordingly as long as they are based off the same point."

With this being said. Say you drilled a ball and you love it and want to put that layout on another ball but your pap changed from when that ball was drilled. Is it better to either A. use the original dual angles with the new pap or B. find the new dual angles with the new pap and use that?
Get your PAP on multiple balls, 1 symmetric, 2 asymmetric (1 high int diff, 1 low to mid int diff).
Average them all together. We're not putting them into orbit, close is good enough. Use surface to tune.
“When you prepare for everything, you’re ready for anything.” - Bill Walsh

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Positive Axis Point: 15 15/16 x 3/16
Speed: 13.5 (Qubica)
Axis Tilt: 13
Axis Rotation: 45
Location: Hawesville KY/Tell City IN

Re: If I Was A “Pro”......

Post by JohnP » April 10th, 2018, 3:47 pm

Zman06 wrote:"I believe your PAP to be the single most important piece of information needed. Layouts from ball to ball can be adjusted accordingly as long as they are based off the same point."

With this being said. Say you drilled a ball and you love it and want to put that layout on another ball but your pap changed from when that ball was drilled. Is it better to either A. use the original dual angles with the new pap or B. find the new dual angles with the new pap and use that?
It depends. If you still love the ball even after your PAP location changed, use the same layout with the old PAP. If not, modify the layout to the same specs with the new PAP. But remember, the ball's characteristics and the surface condition are more important than the layout. -- JohnP

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Re: If I Was A “Pro”......

Post by soupy1957 » April 16th, 2018, 11:13 am

It depends. If you still love the ball even after your PAP location changed, use the same layout with the old PAP. If not, modify the layout to the same specs with the new PAP. But remember, the ball's characteristics and the surface condition are more important than the layout. -- JohnP[/quote]

Does ball weight affect the layout choice?
“Perfection is only a delusion; a lack of personality!” - sdc

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Positive Axis Point: 15 15/16 x 3/16
Speed: 13.5 (Qubica)
Axis Tilt: 13
Axis Rotation: 45
Location: Hawesville KY/Tell City IN

Re: If I Was A “Pro”......

Post by JohnP » April 16th, 2018, 3:37 pm

Does ball weight affect the layout choice?
Not unless your rev rate or speed changes significantly. -- JohnP

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