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 Post subject: 0 degree tilt!
 Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:18 pm Post Number: #1 Post
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I decided to measure my tilt because I found a much more consistent release technique recently.

to my surprise I kept measuring 13 1/2" across the initial track ring. I don't throw a straight ball so the only thing I can conclude is my axis of rotation must combine with this to cause my hook. although the ball layouts I have are mostly aggressive so my hook is no more than 7-8 boards.

the technique I use imparts more revs on the ball. I was speed dominate throwing 18+ on the downlane reading. now I'm at the 16.5-17mph range with this technique. I can still throw 18-19 on the monitor and will keep that technique in my back pocket in case the lanes call for it.

my question centers around layouts. does anyone out here have 0 tilt? I'm guessing (only guessing) my AoR to be in the 30°+ range.

looking for ball recommendations and ball layout combinations to be most beneficial for me. I'm assuming house or modified house shots for the most part.

I mostly have to play down and in with my speed dominate technique and less so with my new release.

I'm going to keep measuring this tilt on different balls to verify I am right about it.

I need an accurate AoR measurement next.

I want to know by ball drillers out here if there is a way to orient the core of a ball to most benefit a release knowing your AoR and tilt measurements.

in other words if my most common mistake is to pull the ball, can I have a layout setup to minimize the error and maximize a miss right of my shot?

I'm thinking every bowler can benefit by orienting the core properly to benefit a bowlers release.

comments?


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 Post subject: Re: 0 degree tilt!
 Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:34 pm Post Number: #2 Post
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 Post subject: Re: 0 degree tilt!
 Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:53 pm Post Number: #3 Post
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I took one but quality wasnt good enough. are you referring yo marking the pap and taking video to measure AoR? I'll have to do that next week. tournaments all weekend.


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 Post subject: Re: 0 degree tilt!
 Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:18 pm Post Number: #4 Post
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I used to have 0* tilt and fixed it by releasing more onto the lane, I was delivering my ball a bit up.


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 Post subject: Re: 0 degree tilt!
 Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:08 pm Post Number: #5 Post
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Are you a no-thumber? Quite a few have of them near to zero tilt but still get a lot of hook because of their revs and rotation. -- JohnP


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 Post subject: Re: 0 degree tilt!
 Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:18 pm Post Number: #6 Post
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no. thumb & fingers. I thought I measured wrong since the first time I marked the ball freehand. Then at the end of practice session yesterday I use the prosec the price at around the ball. Same measurement 13.5 in


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 Post subject: Re: 0 degree tilt!
 Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:22 pm Post Number: #7 Post
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rrb6699 wrote:
to my surprise I kept measuring 13 1/2" across the initial track ring.

Do the initial track hit the thumb and/or finger holes?
If I understand this stuff right it should if you really have 0 degree tilt. Only exception to that is if you are full roller which means that initial track would be between thumb and finger holes.

rrb6699 wrote:
I don't throw a straight ball so the only thing I can conclude is my axis of rotation must combine with this to cause my hook. although the ball layouts I have are mostly aggressive so my hook is no more than 7-8 boards.

Axis rotation have bigger effect to hook than axis tilt. Axis tilt mostly affects to length of slide.

Real problem with not having enough axis tilt is if ball rolls over holes.


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 Post subject: Re: 0 degree tilt!
 Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:46 pm Post Number: #8 Post
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LittleTiger wrote:
Do the initial track hit the thumb and/or finger holes?
If I understand this stuff right it should if you really have 0 degree tilt. Only exception to that is if you are full roller which means that initial track would be between thumb and finger holes.

That is not necessarily correct. A full roller by definition is rolling the ball on the full circumference of the ball, 0* of tilt. Not all full rollers hit gripping holes or roll between the fingers and the thumb. If a bowler has a PAP of say 5" over and has 0* of tilt the initial track will be 1 3/4" from the grip centerline and not hit any holes. See attachment.


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 Post subject: Re: 0 degree tilt!
 Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:02 pm Post Number: #9 Post
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EricHartwell wrote:
That is not necessarily correct. A full roller by definition is rolling the ball on the full circumference of the ball, 0* of tilt. Not all full rollers hit gripping holes or roll between the fingers and the thumb. If a bowler has a PAP of say 5" over and has 0* of tilt the initial track will be 1 3/4" from the grip centerline and not hit any holes. See attachment.

Good point. On that case 0* of tilt should not cause problems?

Other thing which is interesting in that case is that should these bowlers use full roller layouts what are on wiki or something else?


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 Post subject: Re: 0 degree tilt!
 Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:03 pm Post Number: #10 Post
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It all depends on the bowlers PAP

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 Post subject: Re: 0 degree tilt!
 Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:55 pm Post Number: #11 Post
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rrb6699 wrote:
I want to know by ball drillers out here if there is a way to orient the core of a ball to most benefit a release knowing your AoR and tilt measurements.

It is called the Dual Angle Method. It takes into consideration Tilt, Rotation, Revs and Speed.

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 Post subject: Re: 0 degree tilt!
 Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:34 pm Post Number: #12 Post
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ok understand dual angle. I wasn't clear on my point. What I meant to say is there a way to orient the core to take advantage of Bowlers most common mistake like if a bowlers most likely error is missing left (or missing right).

can the core be oriented to minimize error?


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 Post subject: Re: 0 degree tilt!
 Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:50 pm Post Number: #13 Post
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rrb6699 wrote:
ok understand dual angle. I wasn't clear on my point. What I meant to say is there a way to orient the core to take advantage of Bowlers most common mistake like if a bowlers most likely error is missing left (or missing right).

can the core be oriented to minimize error?


Say there was, what happens if the player stops making the mistake?

If a player is say missing 2 boards left most of the time, the simple fix is to just aim 2 boards farther right.

Balls and Layouts don't fix bad releases.

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Last edited by bowl1820 on Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 0 degree tilt!
 Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:57 pm Post Number: #14 Post
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As far as I know, the Benchmark layout will give you the most room for error.

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 Post subject: Re: 0 degree tilt!
 Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:13 am Post Number: #15 Post
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ok. ill have to focus on getting a good benchmark layout then. on the prior post. if the bowler doesn't make a mistake, assuming he/she is consistent, the core will be oriented ok for that.


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 Post subject: Re: 0 degree tilt!
 Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:44 am Post Number: #16 Post
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rrb6699 wrote:
ok. ill have to focus on getting a good benchmark layout then. on the prior post. if the bowler doesn't make a mistake, assuming he/she is consistent, the core will be oriented ok for that.

Yes, as long it is derived from the Benchmark and is matching up with the lane condition. Example of not being matched up is a Totally Strong layout trying to play the track in a burned up condition.
Choosing the right layout/ball combination and line to the pocket is a big part of having room for error.

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12* tilt
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 Post subject: Re: 0 degree tilt!
 Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:20 am Post Number: #17 Post
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of course. im talking about a very playable shot and lined up correctly.

we all look like geniuses when we line up exactly right. I'm taking that a step further and having some compensation built into the ball. I have a tendency to pull shots. footwork mostly but launch angle changes because of it I go left. I cant always post when I get my feet too slow. I pull it.

its something I have to work on. I MUST start my slide first to get my weight over my slide foot.

but I noticed with a few balls on the right conditions if I pull it the difference in roll holds the shot even on a good release. that got me to thinking about ways the core could be oriented - the "front" of the core perhaps. or ways of tilting it to 1 side or another to maybe to have the ball tend to roll off to the right at release (for me) since I pull it.

I had a spare ball once that tended to do this. shoot off to the right when I released it. I may still have it somewhere.

this all may be possible with finger drop span (sorta like sarge easter but fingertip still).

I guess my point is what can I do to make my natural release tend to launch right more?


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 Post subject: Re: 0 degree tilt!
 Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:27 am Post Number: #18 Post
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The bowler makes area by being on the correct part of the lane in terms of forgiveness as well as the best ball (hook shape) to exploit the forgiveness.

I dont think it necessarily a benchmark ball.

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 Post subject: Re: 0 degree tilt!
 Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:55 am Post Number: #19 Post
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MegaMav wrote:
The bowler makes area by being on the correct part of the lane in terms of forgiveness as well as the best ball (hook shape) to exploit the forgiveness.

I dont think it necessarily a benchmark ball.

I agree. Thanks for stating it more clearly.
I realized I was too specific when I mentioned the Benchmark. So my last comment to rrb6699 stated it this way...
EricHartwell wrote:
Yes, as long it is derived from the Benchmark and is matching up with the lane condition. Example of not being matched up is a Totally Strong layout trying to play the track in a burned up condition.
Choosing the right layout/ball combination and line to the pocket is a big part of having room for error.

rrb6699
It is still a good idea to get a benchmark ball and base future additions to your arsenal off of it.

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PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
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12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand


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 Post subject: Re: 0 degree tilt!
 Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:01 am Post Number: #20 Post
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maybe I need to find all my specs again to be sure of them. then, drill my next set of balls for different shapes.

what shapes should I go for and how many balls will it take? I have a lot of aggressive stuff with smooth shapes right now. I need some hockey stick shapes of different angles or sharpness of the shape (skid/flip strong to weaker)

perhaps the sharpest shape with the quickest reaction to friction could be something like 110 x 3 1/4 x 40 maybe 35. I'd have to also see how the pin looks on a layout like this.

if I start at the extreme end of the spectrum, I can work down.


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