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 Post subject: Re: The 2018 Urethane Ball Thread
 Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:58 am Post Number: #41 Post
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One thing I would suggest is to try different surface adjustments. I find that out of box hooks way too early and doesn’t give me any room to adjust as the night goes on. Currently all my urethane balls are at 2000 abralon, 4000 (abralon or NEAT), or 5000 polish.

Also ordered another Crow this week :D


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 Post subject: Re: The 2018 Urethane Ball Thread
 Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:14 pm Post Number: #42 Post
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BigDog wrote:
One thing I would suggest is to try different surface adjustments. I find that out of box hooks way too early and doesn’t give me any room to adjust as the night goes on. Currently all my urethane balls are at 2000 abralon, 4000 (abralon or NEAT), or 5000 polish.
Also ordered another Crow this week :D

I am also experimenting with surface.
I tried to use my Midnight Scorcher at stock 320 grit on the Parkway house shot and had to immediately move in so far that it wasn't worth it.
Went to my Crow at stock 500 and same thing, too strong and early.
But, big but, it has a lot to do with the flare potential of the ball when choosing grit.
My Grizz urethane that does not flare at all, only one single stripe of oil, I can use at 320 grit and stand right and play up 9 or 8 and it will gentle its way in with great control.
With my Purple Hammer, it also barely flares, but at 2000 grit it is a tad weak in the oil.
So I am going to try the Purple at 500 grit and see if I can ease it in like the Grizz.
Zero flare urethane balls give great control and work best at lower grits depending of course on the oil volume.
High flare urethane balls can get away with higher grits so they don't hook out too early or get too jumpy in the back.

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 Post subject: Re: The 2018 Urethane Ball Thread
 Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:52 pm Post Number: #43 Post
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A lot of it depends on the bowler and lane condition. I keep my original Angle at 4000 abralon and my Orange Angle at 5000 polish. These are both no flaring pancake balls and I use them on low volume tourmament conditions and sometimes in the third game of league if the lanes are burnt. This way I can get them downlane a bit more before they hook. As I said, I am a high rev bowler so they are useful for me in these situations. I just want people to be aware that they should experiment to see what they can do with urethane in different situations to see what works best for them and not think that they have to be only a specialized option. As always your mileage may vary.


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 Post subject: Re: The 2018 Urethane Ball Thread
 Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:55 am Post Number: #44 Post
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BigDog wrote:
A lot of it depends on the bowler and lane condition. I keep my original Angle at 4000 abralon and my Orange Angle at 5000 polish. These are both no flaring pancake balls and I use them on low volume tournament conditions and sometimes in the third game of league if the lanes are burnt. This way I can get them downlane a bit more before they hook. As I said, I am a high rev bowler so they are useful for me in these situations. I just want people to be aware that they should experiment to see what they can do with urethane in different situations to see what works best for them and not think that they have to be only a specialized option. As always your mileage may vary.

Yes, each bowler has unique delivery specs and will need to choose a combination that works best for them.
You and I are on opposite sides of the delivery spec world.
You are high rev bowler and probably have over 15 mph ball speed.
I have very low revs (150 rpm) and low ball speed (12-13 mph off my hand)
I also have a 90 degree axis rotation with zero tilt and of course I am a Full Roller.
So even though we both can use and really enjoy urethane, we each must find the urethane ball that compliments our unique styles.

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 Post subject: Re: The 2018 Urethane Ball Thread
 Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:09 am Post Number: #45 Post
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So tonight in league I tried a new ball that I got myself for my birthday.
I picked up a cheater ball from Ebay.
A Radical Yeti Uncaged.
I have never had a pearl before and wondered if such a ball would compliment my style.
Let us just say I pretty much hated this ball reaction.
It went super long and then did one of four things:
1. It jumped left and went high on misses left.
2. It jumped left and hit perfectly on a flawless shot.
3. It labored and jumped left late doing pretty much nothing on slight misses right.
4. It labored and just rolled straight, never turning left at all and leaving washouts on bigger misses right.

This ball was so difficult to control, an exercise in frustration.

But I had my Midnight Scorcher at 1500 grit which I tried and it was too strong and was leaving flat 10's.
I then pulled out my Purple Hammer at 500 grit and the Purple was way too strong!
I could not roll on, or right of second arrow, or it would cross over.
If I moved in with it then it could not turn the corner.
Useless.

So I had no ball reaction tonight that was any good even though I was pretty accurate.
First game with the Uncaged with the Purple for spares was a 202 clean game consisting of a lot of junk strikes, but then things deteriorated fast and I closed with a 146 and a 136.
Sad, very sad.
It is so frustrating to have no good ball reaction and of course to buy a new ball and have it be a total fail.

When I got home I brought the finish on the Purple back to 2000 grit.
I am going back to the lanes tonight to try the Purple at the higher grit to see if it can hold a line.
I will also bring my Judge at 1000 grit just for a try.
I will also bring the Grizz at 320 grit.
Hopefully I can learn something about the proper reaction for these lanes and find a ball that will obey my commands.

Update:

I went back to the lanes, but after two leagues, the volume was pretty beat down and I had to move in with all balls to be able to get the ball up the lane.
Right foot on 17 rolling right up 11 1/2 out to 10 or 9 1/2 was perfect for the Grizz which was super smooth and never overreacted.
The Judge surprisingly allowed me to play the same line and it hit very hard, but it was a tad strong and tended to snap a tad too much in the back and I got some crossover splits.
Then I tried the Purple Hammer at 2000 grit.
Still far, far too strong.
I had to move much further left and still the ball was having difficultly getting up the lane without crossing over.
So on the more broken down lanes, not the fresh I had in league, the Grizz produced the most controlled reaction.
It did not strike as much on pocket hits, but it also did less bad things on misses.

These urethane balls are so the opposite of the Yeti Uncaged.
With each of these balls, its reaction through the whole lane was consistent and very predictable.
I knew exactly what they would do, throw by throw.
With the Uncaged it was throw it and pray.

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Rev rate: 150
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Composite Average: 175
High Game: 259 bowled with Billy Hardwick rubber ball. The back 9.
High Series: 667 bowled with the Radical Jackpot.


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 Post subject: Re: The 2018 Urethane Ball Thread
 Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:16 pm Post Number: #46 Post
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I nearly did it again last night... I didn't use my Hot Cell on fresh since the 800 night, just to try some other things. But after struggling a bit in my two 5 man leagues, I decided that the Hot Cell will be the first out of the bag. If it doesn't roll well in practice, then I will go to something else.

First game should have been 300. My back let me down in the 5th frame. I set up on the approach and felt sharp pain across the bottom, but I went anyway. Pulled the shot way too much for an 8 count. Finished with 278.

2nd game I just missed the transition early. First ball jumped. Made a 2 and 1 move on the right and carried a light hit. Same shot back on the left was flush. Tried the same line again on the right and 10 pin. Ended up moving 1 board right on that lane and struck until the 10th. That's when I made a mental mistake. I felt like my line was just a hair too tight for my liking. So I debated on switching back to original target. That cost me. Ended up having my eyes wander and I pulled it again but with no speed. Spared that up and went back to the "tight" target and struck. 248.

So now I'm sitting with a chance at another 800. I double and then 9 spare. Now I need to strike until the last ball. Start doing so. However, I can now feel the lanes starting to open a bit. Not to mention, my teammate/PSO decided to join me with his Hot Cell. I said before my 8th frame shot that I could probably last it out just by keeping my speed up. Big mistake. Pulled the shot a bit, but it was obvious I needed to move. Split. Next lane, I throw a good shot and still comes in high. Make the move in the 10th and double. Third ball, my team was making jokes so I threw a bad shot. 231 for 757 series.

So now after using it on fresh in two 5 man leagues, I have a 804 and 757. Low game of 231. Average of 260. My average in these two leagues before shooting those series was 211 and 203.

Anyone who thinks urethane doesn't carry is full of crap. Maybe the old stuff with pancake blocks. My Black Hammer has some carry issues, but it is my spare ball. The Hot Cell carries as well as any resin ball. The Purple Hammer carries well. I have a Combat Tank on the way. I loved the Rebel, so this should match up well. Shadow Ops will be purchased soon as well.

Some people suggest drilling resin to mimic urethane. That's all fine and good, but resin is still resin. I've used control layouts in the past. I've used low flare layouts. If the shot is right, they will behave like urethane. Hell, my Daredevil Trick - which is currently my most controllable resin ball with a 5x3x4 layout - does give me a good urethane look. It's cleaner with a controlled move off the spot. However, when the heads start to go, it starts to behave like other resin balls. And it does need that hold area inside to allow me to throw it like urethane. I get that in my monday night mixed league (threw 701 this week with it), but not 5 man.

Long post, but I am tired of seeing this bashing of urethane going on around the web (and elsewhere). Urethane may not work for everyone. It does not require having mega revs though. It does not require a sport pattern. It is not "better" to mimic urethane with a resin ball. And it is not a crutch - not in the least. Use the tools necessary to get the job done. The tools are not the same for everyone. Stop preaching like they are. We are all different. Throw what works for you and stop acting like your way is the right way.


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 Post subject: Re: The 2018 Urethane Ball Thread
 Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:28 pm Post Number: #47 Post
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jazlar wrote:
Long post, but I am tired of seeing this bashing of urethane going on around the web (and elsewhere). Urethane may not work for everyone. It does not require having mega revs though. It does not require a sport pattern. It is not "better" to mimic urethane with a resin ball. And it is not a crutch - not in the least. Use the tools necessary to get the job done. The tools are not the same for everyone. Stop preaching like they are. We are all different. Throw what works for you and stop acting like your way is the right way.


I'll tell you what.
You use your urethane and I'll continue to deliver good ball motion to customers without it.
Urethane is not meant for modern oil volumes, it pancakes the front to back slope of oil patterns.
Urethane is an indictment of bad ball motion coming out of pro shops. It isnt necessary. Its that simple.

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 Post subject: Re: The 2018 Urethane Ball Thread
 Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:13 pm Post Number: #48 Post
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MegaMav wrote:
I'll tell you what.
You use your urethane and I'll continue to deliver good ball motion to customers without it.
Urethane is not meant for modern oil volumes, it pancakes the front to back slope of oil patterns.
Urethane is an indictment of bad ball motion coming out of pro shops. It isnt necessary. Its that simple.


How the hell could I shoot 800 and 750 on a house shot if that were the case (and we have oil here)? Why are people having success on sport shots with urethane?

I'm not saying it is necessary. I'm not saying you can't get good reaction out of resin. But to say that urethane does not work is an argument based out of bias and/or pure ignorance.

MODERN urethane balls are not urethane balls out of the 80s and early 90s. There is a local guy who has carried a 210 or so average for years throwing mostly urethane - old and new. He even hits up on it like the old days. It works for him.

I've bowled really well with resin too. But lately, if I want to control the lanes - especially during 5 man league, urethane has been the answer. More directly, the Hot Cell has been the answer. Even during my 800 series, one guy mentioned how he didn't like how it was rolling early. But guess what? It hit like a truck. It also flares quite a bit, so you can stop worrying about carry down.

The fact is, manufacturers would not be producing these balls if they were not needed. Do you not realize what is involved at the factory to produce pure urethane balls these days? Not worth the effort without demand.

You know what truly isn't needed? All those heavy oil balls on a house shot. Yet certain manufacturers keep on pumping them out. More hook, hook, hook. Talk about bad ball motion...


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 Post subject: Re: The 2018 Urethane Ball Thread
 Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:26 am Post Number: #49 Post
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I would like to copy a post here I made in another thread that is pertinent to the above discussion of urethane and resin balls.
This is my personal experience after 5 years of struggle.

See below:

I was talking to the son of a pro shop operator who said to me: "House Shots are easy. All you have to do is create area."
For some reason this statement really pissed me off.
I struggle with House Shots.
I don't throw two handed and don't have the revs to create area and I can't use reactive resin cheater balls as they do nothing for my game.
I can't throw right of second arrow or the ball will roll out instantly if it is urethane and never come back if it is resin.
If I move too far inside the ball can't carry the corners.
I have to use only urethane and use very careful and straight lines in an exact area of the lane that I must hit perfectly every time or be punished.
House Shots have forced me to play a very limited part of the lane and be perfectly on day in and day out or disaster.
To me House Shots are harder than the Sport Shots I have bowled on.
After years of trying different balls and different paths to the pocket, this is the only line that works somewhat reliably as long as I only use urethane.
With a Sport Shot, if I miss, the result is totally predictable.
On House Shots, when I miss, there is no guarantee what the heck will happen to me.
For years I have been scratching my head on House Shots and have been on a roller coaster ride.
I hate House Shots and wish they were gone.
Recently I have been bowling on some Sport Shots with a pretty flat pattern of no more than 1.8-1 and it has been a breath of fresh air.
It is so much more fun and so much more consistent in how it reacts.
If I make a good shot I get a strike almost every time and if I miss I know exactly what will happen.

I have attached a photo of how I am forced to play house shots with urethane:


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 Post subject: Re: The 2018 Urethane Ball Thread
 Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:45 am Post Number: #50 Post
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Nord (or anyone) is the Storm Pitch Black a two piece or does it have filler?

I looked but dont see anything that says,.

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 Post subject: Re: The 2018 Urethane Ball Thread
 Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:39 am Post Number: #51 Post
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bowl1820 wrote:
Nord (or anyone) is the Storm Pitch Black a two piece or does it have filler?
I looked but don't see anything that says,.

The Pitch Black uses a three piece core.
Core, filler and urethane coverstock.
Only Hammer on the Black and Purple uses the old style two piece.
Also Visionary's The Judge uses a two piece.
The Brunswick True Motion Urethane uses the new "Dynamicore" core, which even though it is a three piece, is designed to create the higher Coefficient of Restitution that a two piece core provides.

But remember that a higher Coefficient of Restitution is not always desirable.
A ball with a higher Coefficient of Restitution causes the pins to fly more aggressively and can limit the mixing.
A softer ball, with a lower Coefficient of Restitution, will make the pins stay lower and mix more.
A perfect example was a test session I did this week with my Judge and Grizz bowling balls.
I was able to play both on the same line.
The Grizz of course is a 1989 urethane ball with a pancake block and filler.
When the Grizz hit, it was not leaving corner pins and the pins were mixing and laying down.
When I switched to the Judge the pins were being blasted and shooting hard, but, it was leaving ringing 10's and 7 pins on some slightly less perfect shots that the Grizz carried due to the slower pin action.

Just something to think about.

Attachment:
Pitch Black Three Piece Core.jpg


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High Game: 259 bowled with Billy Hardwick rubber ball. The back 9.
High Series: 667 bowled with the Radical Jackpot.


Last edited by Nord on Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The 2018 Urethane Ball Thread
 Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:14 pm Post Number: #52 Post
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Nord wrote:
The Pitch Black uses a three piece core.
Core, filler and urethane coverstock.


Thanks Nord, I thought I saw a picture of the Pitch Black core that looked two piece. But when i went back to look again I couldn't find it, I just saw the pics like you posted and nothing in the descriptions said so I was confused.

I figured out now what I saw was a small picture of the 900 Globall Boo-Yah core and I mixed the two up.

But now looking at a bigger pic of the Boo-yah it's not a two piece either, Just black filler and in the small pic it just looked like a two piece.

I'm looking to replace my old Fab Burgundy Hammer, its heavier than what I use now and it has my old grip from years back. I love how it hits!

So I'm down to the Pitch Black vs True Motion and now the Black Hammer. I'm leaning toward the True Motion it looks to have a bit higher Diff. and I like what you said about the COR.

The Pitch Black looks good and I see them use it watching PBA ;) ;) ;)


Attachment:
900-global-boo-yah.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: The 2018 Urethane Ball Thread
 Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:58 pm Post Number: #53 Post
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bowl1820 wrote:

Thanks Nord, I thought I saw a picture of the Pitch Black core that looked two piece. But when i went back to look again I couldn't find it, I just saw the pics like you posted and nothing in the descriptions said so I was confused.

I figured out now what I saw was a small picture of the 900 Globall Boo-Yah core and I mixed the two up.

But now looking at a bigger pic of the Boo-yah it's not a two piece either, Just black filler and in the small pic it just looked like a two piece.

I'm looking to replace my old Fab Burgundy Hammer, its heavier than what I use now and it has my old grip from years back. I love how it hits!

So I'm down to the Pitch Black vs True Motion and now the Black Hammer. I'm leaning toward the True Motion it looks to have a bit higher Diff. and I like what you said about the COR.

The Pitch Black looks good and I see them use it watching PBA ;) ;) ;)
Attachment:
900-global-boo-yah.jpg

Don't forget the Purple Hammer.
It has a much stronger coverstock than the Black Hammer and has the same RG and Diff specs as the Black and a two piece construction.
Remember, the True Motion uses the original 1980's Rhino Coverstock.
So that coverstock will provide an old school motion like my Grizz bowling ball which uses the same exact cover stock, but, the core will give it a little more backend motion compared to the Grizz which just rolls, rolls, rolls.
Remember, with urethane it is not necessarily about flare and Diff.
You want the ball to roll real early, hook/set then go pretty straight with a slight arc in to the pocket.
Something you can do all day if you are an accurate and consistent bowler.

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 Post subject: Re: The 2018 Urethane Ball Thread
 Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:04 am Post Number: #54 Post
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if you could pick any core to see in a urethane ball what would it be?
i would like to see the radical cash core in a urethane ball, seems like it might roll to early though

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 Post subject: Re: The 2018 Urethane Ball Thread
 Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:26 am Post Number: #55 Post
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Rack Attack core on urethane no filler... give me three of them, I’ll pre order them yesterday...


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 Post subject: Re: The 2018 Urethane Ball Thread
 Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:01 am Post Number: #56 Post
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TonyPR wrote:
Rack Attack core on urethane no filler... give me three of them, I’ll pre order them yesterday...

Yes, this has my vote as well!
But, don't overlook the advantages of a coreless non-flaring urethane ball drilled to eliminate all dynamics.
My Grizz is a perfect example of this.
Simple conventional drilling with CG in palm.
The ball reaction is pure coverstock and bowler, that's all.
You do the work.
There are no lucky hits, or junk strikes.
You must be a bowler to score with it.
It is a ball that will keep you out of trouble and reward your good shots.
If you make bad shots then they are bad, but at least the Grizz, due to its lack of dynamics, will not exaggerate the bad shot the way a resin ball will.
The core I want in a urethane ball is a core that will mimic the Grizz smooth control motion, but provide a little more hitting power at the pins.
To me that would be the ultimate urethane motion.
Below is a photo of what my Grizz's flare pattern looks like.
Yep, no pattern, just a single stripe!


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 Post subject: Re: The 2018 Urethane Ball Thread
 Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:21 pm Post Number: #57 Post
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Okay, New Urethane coming out from Pyramid Bowling: Pathogen Plague

Don't have any spec's yet, But here's a picture.

USBC Approved February 27, 2018
Attachment:
PathogenPlague.JPG


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 Post subject: Re: The 2018 Urethane Ball Thread
 Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:22 pm Post Number: #58 Post
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bowl1820 wrote:
Okay, New Urethane coming out from Pyramid Bowling: Pathogen Plague

Don't have any spec's yet, But here's a picture.

USBC Approved February 27, 2018
Attachment:
PathogenPlague.JPG

Whoa, that looks dull and strong.
Nice.
Any core pics yet?

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 Post subject: Re: The 2018 Urethane Ball Thread
 Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:48 pm Post Number: #59 Post
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Nord wrote:
Whoa, that looks dull and strong.
Nice.
Any core pics yet?

Nope not yet, They just changed their facebook page and put a teaser up. Nothing on the site either.

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 Post subject: Re: The 2018 Urethane Ball Thread
 Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:19 am Post Number: #60 Post
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bowl1820 wrote:
Nope not yet, They just changed their facebook page and put a teaser up. Nothing on the site either.

Ok, well let us know when you have more details please.

_________________
Full Roller
Axis Rotation: 90
Axis Tilt: 0
PAP: 6 3/16 x 2 5/8
Rev rate: 150
Ball speed: 10.5 mph at the Pin Deck
Composite Average: 175
High Game: 259 bowled with Billy Hardwick rubber ball. The back 9.
High Series: 667 bowled with the Radical Jackpot.


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