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 Post subject: Re: BOWLERS ID ...NEED LAYOUTS
 Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:35 am Post Number: #21 Post
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60-3.25-55 and you will have a choice on balance hole P2 or P3

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 Post subject: Re: BOWLERS ID ...NEED LAYOUTS
 Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:28 pm Post Number: #22 Post
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Thank you Eric.... would the layout be the same for a symmetric urethane say a Pitch Black or a BOO YAH from 900 Global


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 Post subject: Re: BOWLERS ID ...NEED LAYOUTS
 Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:56 pm Post Number: #23 Post
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jobowl wrote:
Thank you Eric.... would the layout be the same for a symmetric urethane say a Pitch Black or a BOO YAH from 900 Global

Absolutely not.
You need longer Pin to PAP's for Symmetrical balls.

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 Post subject: Re: BOWLERS ID ...NEED LAYOUTS
 Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:36 am Post Number: #24 Post
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Hey Eric I have a plugged Storm Phaze 2 that I wanted to put a Sym control drilling on but the 4 1/2 inch pin to pap is pin in my ring finger....don't really like the look of it ,,,,My PSO gave me 2 other options....Either put pin to pap at 3 inches or keep the 4 1/2 pin but increase the VAL to around 70 degrees ....what would be the difference in the 3 layouts for my specs especially with my low tilt...will it be a dramatic differance


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 Post subject: Re: BOWLERS ID ...NEED LAYOUTS
 Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:33 pm Post Number: #25 Post
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What is it that you don't like the looks of?

Pin down 70* you will have to worry about it clipping the middle finger as it flares. Have you had success with any pin don layouts?

3" pin to PAP is Not Control for a low tilt bowler Though you could use a 3" if you were thinking about a Motion Hole.

Another option is the Symmetrical low flare. 5" pin to PAP, pin above the bridge.

I don't understand the reluctance people have with the pin in the ring finger layout. My anchor bowler drilled several balls since I recommended it to him. He was very reluctant to try it. Finally drilled one pin in the ring. and has drilled 2 more since. It is the first layout he thinks of now.

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 Post subject: Re: BOWLERS ID ...NEED LAYOUTS
 Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:53 pm Post Number: #26 Post
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I love pin in the ring finger for me on medium cover symmetricals.
PAP: 4 7/8 x 3/4 Up
Layout: ?? x 4 1/8 x 55

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 Post subject: Re: BOWLERS ID ...NEED LAYOUTS
 Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:01 pm Post Number: #27 Post
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I have had success with pin down balls... Asyms anyway... Moderate with pin down system... I'll try the pin in the ring finger and let you know how it rolls


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 Post subject: Re: BOWLERS ID ...NEED LAYOUTS
 Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:04 pm Post Number: #28 Post
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When you put a hole in the low RG (pin), you will raise the RG of that axis to where the low RG of one of the surrounding axis could be lower. Picture the low RG as a doughnut with the pin in the hole and therefore the hole is the low RG axis of the ball. When you raise the RG of the hole, the low RG axis will be all of the axis s on the doughnut around the hole. Essentially you have pushed the low RG away from the pin. You have raised the low RG of the ball, but that does not matter much since the only RG axis that really matters is the one of the PAP.


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 Post subject: Re: BOWLERS ID ...NEED LAYOUTS
 Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:31 am Post Number: #29 Post
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MegaMav wrote:
I love pin in the ring finger for me on medium cover symmetricals.


Ditto. Love my Jackpot, Primo, Rack Attack, etc.
Some people are reluctant to drill out the pin, until they see the ball reaction.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: BOWLERS ID ...NEED LAYOUTS
 Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:27 am Post Number: #30 Post
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After using the layout with the pin in the ring finger a few times I can say that it is a good option for me.... it has a more rounded shape with a nice arc on the backend....can probably use it on fresh on patterns with clean backend.... thanks for the suggestion

On a previous post you gave me some sport shot layouts for asymmetric balls... can you give me some layouts for symmetric balls on sport patterns... what layouts from my basic arsenal that you suggested can I use on sport patterns ...im thinking mostly just the Benchmark and Control would work


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 Post subject: Re: BOWLERS ID ...NEED LAYOUTS
 Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:14 pm Post Number: #31 Post
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jobowl wrote:
After using the layout with the pin in the ring finger a few times I can say that it is a good option for me.... it has a more rounded shape with a nice arc on the backend....can probably use it on fresh on patterns with clean backend.... thanks for the suggestion

On a previous post you gave me some sport shot layouts for asymmetric balls... can you give me some layouts for symmetric balls on sport patterns... what layouts from my basic arsenal that you suggested can I use on sport patterns ...im thinking mostly just the Benchmark and Control would work

Sorry about my late replay, I lost track of this one.

It is not a requirement to have "sport" layouts to bowl on sport patterns. The sport layouts are more forward rolling layouts that can be used on more demanding patterns when your margin for error is much smaller and you are trying to keep the pocket in front of you. They are in essence Control layouts controlling your ball motion front to back rather than side to side.

For easier reference here is my post with the layouts I came up with for you...

EricHartwell wrote:
Benchmark total 95*, Ratio 1.75:1

Asymmetrical Layouts
Totally Strong ............... 50-4-25
Midlane ........................ 40-4-35
Benchmark .................. 60-3.75-35
Long and Strong ........... 80-3.5-35
Control ........................ 60-3.25-55
low flare ...................... 80-2.25-35

Symmetrical Layouts... drilling angles to Cg
Totally Strong ............... Double Thumb Layout
Midlane ....................... 50-4-35 bal hole 1.5" below midline on the VAL
Benchmark .................. 75-4-30
Long and Strong ........... 95-3.5-40 Motion Hole
Control ........................ 65-4.25-50 bal hole 2" below midline on the VAL adjust to pin in the Ring finger
low flare ...................... 75-5-30

Asymmetrical Sport layouts
Short Sport ....... 30-4.5-55 Adjust to Pin the the Ring finger
Med Sport ......... 30-5-45 P3
Long Sport ........ 35-5.25-35 P3


Depending on what length pattern you are bowling on, any one of the Symmetrical layouts can be used.
Longer patterns Totally Strong, Midlane and Benchmark
Medium patterns Benchmark, Long and Strong, Control, low flare
Short Patterns Control and low flare

Surface adjustments are a very important partof matching up to sport conditions, as well as ball choice.
My recommendations for the Symmetrical layouts is by no means the only way to apply the different layouts to the conditions because of ball choice and what kind of shape you are looking for.

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 Post subject: Re: BOWLERS ID ...NEED LAYOUTS
 Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:27 pm Post Number: #32 Post
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Thanks for the info Eric.... just a question... my PSO has a plugged Alpha Crux that he wants to give me... he said that since I like my Rocketship with the pin in the ring finger drilling to try it on this ball..he says that it will still be a control drilling with just a tad more backend... your control drilling suggestion is 3 1/4 inch pin ....is there a big differance


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 Post subject: Re: BOWLERS ID ...NEED LAYOUTS
 Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:29 am Post Number: #33 Post
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Pin in the ring finger on an Asymmetrical will be what I recommended for a Short sport layout.
It will be a ball that will cover more boards to be played out by the gutter at the breakpoint.

The Control layout will give you easier length and a softer/slower arcing shape.

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 Post subject: Re: BOWLERS ID ...NEED LAYOUTS
 Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 9:14 pm Post Number: #34 Post
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Hey Eric just a question... My PSO has a Haywire that only has a few games on it... With my specs the layout works out to be.... 57 x 2 3/4 x 45...my question is what should I expect from this layout and where could I find myself using it.... Or should I plug it and drill it to another layout... Maybe your suggestef low flare with the 5 inch pin .... What do you suggest I do


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 Post subject: Re: BOWLERS ID ...NEED LAYOUTS
 Posted: Sat May 12, 2018 7:19 pm Post Number: #35 Post
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jobowl wrote:
Hey Eric just a question... My PSO has a Haywire that only has a few games on it... With my specs the layout works out to be.... 57 x 2 3/4 x 45...my question is what should I expect from this layout and where could I find myself using it.... Or should I plug it and drill it to another layout... Maybe your suggestef low flare with the 5 inch pin .... What do you suggest I do

You have options with this ball...
As is it will have a strong breakpoint for you with the shorter pin to PAP. Without a balance hole it will be 85-2 3/4-45 actually pushing the totals a little high for you. I'm thinking you could play with dull surface adjustments and make it usable.

Otherwise utilize a P3 balance hole and enjoy it for a year as a good Control piece. Then plug it up and go back to option one and find the sweetspot with surface.

Plug it and re-drill. Use your favorite pin to PAP for a Symmetrical ball Without a balance hole. This is if you want to keep it more than a year.
Also, with the plug a re-drill you get your exact grip not reusing someone else's to save money not plugging them completely.

I wouldn't go all the way out to 5" with the pin to PAP. I prefer that for a higher differential ball, the differential on the Haywire is a modest .043.

I just modeled the layouts and if you want to plug and redrill for lower flare or pretty much anything still legal for the existing static weight rules, you will be tracking over the old grip the whole way down the lane.

This ball had better be next to free or at least a really good deal.

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PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand


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 Post subject: Re: BOWLERS ID ...NEED LAYOUTS
 Posted: Mon May 14, 2018 10:35 am Post Number: #36 Post
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Thanks Eric... Think I'll wait and get another ball... I already have balls with some good backend... Was looking for something more like a benchmark... He was selling it for 90 bucks drilled so I wait on another ball


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