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 Post subject: Hammer Black Widow Spare-What type of layout could be useful
 Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:07 am Post Number: #1 Post
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Hi everybody,

since our league season is running for a month, we were faced to extremely dry conditions more often.

As i learned, "surface" ist still the elephant in the room, i just ordered a 15 Hammer Black Widow Spare Ball to be prepared for the next start.

I neither have any experience with "performance polyester" nor with something like a big core in a plastic ball.

Sometimes my classic pro bowl spare ball is useful at this kind of conditions, but i hope to get more corner pins with the help of the core. Atm the ball path is like getting the most fricton from the heads, added some more from the midlane and a slight continuous motion of that path at the backend.

What kind of Layout could be useful ?

House Shots / burned Heads / marginal oil on the outer boads to consider... but almost no carry down at the backends ( cause iam a lefty with less traffic on my side )


My specs:
375 rpm at 18,5 off hand, 7°AT, 40-60 AR
100° ( 95°+10° for very low tilt, - 5° for less traffic left side )
Ratio: 2,25:1 - 0,5 ( less traffic ) = 1,75:1

Benchmark: 65x35
Control: 65x55
long&strong: 85x35
Midlane: 45x35
totally strong: 60x20


other ideas ?

What would be the best choice ?

Thanks for any advice !


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 Post subject: Re: Hammer Black Widow Spare-What type of layout could be us
 Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:28 am Post Number: #2 Post
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PlainUgly wrote:
What kind of Layout could be useful ?

House Shots / burned Heads / marginal oil on the outer boads to consider... but almost no carry down at the backends ( cause iam a lefty with less traffic on my side )


My specs:
375 rpm at 18,5 off hand, 7°AT, 40-60 AR
100° ( 95°+10° for very low tilt, - 5° for less traffic left side )
Ratio: 2,25:1 - 0,5 ( less traffic ) = 1,75:1

Benchmark: 65x35
Control: 65x55
long&strong: 85x35
Midlane: 45x35
totally strong: 60x20

I have the Taboo Spare with a Double Thumb layout on it.
My speed to rev relationship makes me more rev dominant than you and I'm right handed.
I can get rev dominant enough to flare the ball all the way around and thump the balance hole on the backend. Here is a video I made on a fresh 38' THS on higher friction lane surface. I am also using lower rotation than my normal 60* in the video. fwiw



I would recommend a Stronger layout, Benchmark or stronger. Something like 55-4-30 P2.5-P3

Did you request a Pin to Cg distance?

My recommendation is close to the base layout for the Double Thumb layout without knowing your PAP. If the Pin to Cg is 4"+ you could go with the Double Thumb balance hole.

I have seen many bowlers using pin down layouts on the Taboo Spare with 5" pin to PAP's and the ball just doesn't get into a roll and it bounces off the pocket leaving 10 pins.
As you have already mentioned above, surface is always an option to help read the lane and get a plastic ball into a roll. I have since knocked off the polish with a used 2000 grit pad and I get a more consistent read of the lanes now.

_________________
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand


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 Post subject: Re: Hammer Black Widow Spare-What type of layout could be us
 Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:05 pm Post Number: #3 Post
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I faced the same issues last year with one league. I punched a BW Spare 75x5.5x42(no hole). It forward rolls earlier than I like. But, it carries extremely well when their is enough friction. I did take the surface down 2000 to get it to hit better. If I could drill it over, I'd have a weak pin position to retain tilt.

_________________
Former Proshop Operator, North Bowl
Spokane, Washington

My stats:
Rev rate: 320
Axis tilt: 17*
Axis rotation: variable(a game is 45*)
Speed: 16-17 at the decks
PAP: 5 3/4 right, 5/8 up


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 Post subject: Re: Hammer Black Widow Spare-What type of layout could be us
 Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:47 pm Post Number: #4 Post
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Hi Guys,

sorry for answering late, i just had the first look on to the ball today.

Pin to CG is 3,5", my coordinates are 5 1/2 over.

15er ball specs: 2,48 RG, 0.058 diff, 0,013 int. diff

@ Eric, i like the idea of the stronger layout, cause its only non reactive polyester.
I would like to take pin to PAP distance to 5" , so i dont have to drill directly into MB mark, what do u think ?

@ fufu, this angle sum of nearly 120* is fairly long and would be a control layout for me. Surface really is important and a polyester ball has a weak cover.
Usually i would think this isnt enough at all, even at dry conditions....but i dont know at all what will Happen...... what if a weak layout helps me retain some energy for a better angle to the pocket? Pincarry is much better with a right angle and iam a bit scared of too much deflection on the pindeck.

Does one agree that this are to many variables to make exact conclusions ?

At least its a ball, planned for dry conditions and i have a spare ball without core, that i will use if its getting extremly dry.

So thanks you guys, i will think this over and punch some holes and i will report how its going on.


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 Post subject: Re: Hammer Black Widow Spare-What type of layout could be us
 Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:20 am Post Number: #5 Post
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PlainUgly wrote:
@ Eric, i like the idea of the stronger layout, cause its only non reactive polyester.
I would like to take pin to PAP distance to 5" , so i dont have to drill directly into MB mark, what do u think ?

Why would you not want to drill into the Mass Bias mark? It is the P4 balance hole location.

With 63-4-30 base layout for the Double Thumb Layout the Mas Bias marker will not be drilled out.
If I were to adjust the DT layout I would shorten the pin to PAP because of your low tilt and maybe make the VAL angle a little larger to get the Cg lower. Something like 63-3.5-35 DT hole

A 5" pin to PAP will reduce your entry angle with its forward rolling characteristics. It will also put the Cg above your midline, only allowing you a small balance hole in a stronger position by drilling the fingers deeper.

_________________
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand


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 Post subject: Re: Hammer Black Widow Spare-What type of layout could be us
 Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:16 am Post Number: #6 Post
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With only 7* of axis tilt, I'd be worried about putting the pin 4"' or farther from the PAP. My tilt is higher than yours and as I said, it forward rolls a touch earlier than I like. I bowl a 2nd shift league and tonight they were FLYING!

I tried a few lines inside and found the reaction to be spotty at best. Gave my BW Spare a go outside right up 7. I had one open and shot 663. Everyone else on my pair was fighting the wet/dry and lack of carry.

_________________
Former Proshop Operator, North Bowl
Spokane, Washington

My stats:
Rev rate: 320
Axis tilt: 17*
Axis rotation: variable(a game is 45*)
Speed: 16-17 at the decks
PAP: 5 3/4 right, 5/8 up


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 Post subject: Re: Hammer Black Widow Spare-What type of layout could be us
 Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:16 pm Post Number: #7 Post
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Back again with my results of testing my Hammer BW Spare Ball.

Layout: 60 x 3,5 x 35

Ball doesnt made any noticeable move to the pocket on THS at centers in my area until i took off the Polish as fufu mentioned above. A fresh 2000 Mirka Abralon done with a Deros changed its behavior significant.

At the area of board 5-10, the ball reads the lane early, giving an smooth arc with continuous back end motion. Very controllable with some area of forgiveness.

Unfortunately, when overpacing, all forgiveness is gone, it didnt made it to the pocket. Also, there is no room for playing more than 1-2 boards out, the ball didnt recover properly.

At one center, there is a very dry outer part from boards 3-10. All my reactive balls overreact dramatically when hitting this area, the spare ball was my idea to outfox this dry part of the lane...

But i was wrong. Obviously, this part has never seen oil for a long time. Even my H BW Spare did overreact in the midlane, so no advantage there for me.

For me, the following results count atm:
- good ball for light oil conditions with 2000 grid surface, at 18,5 mph off hand / 400 rpm for playing a
straight line with medium backend motion. Pin Carry was really nice. I keep this ball for plan B, like
"straighter is greater".
- almost no oil makes the ( part of ) lane be unplayable, even with plastic.

I will try some more, f.e. on broken patterns. Lets see how breakdown and carrydown influence success of this ball.


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