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 Post subject: Oddball layout
 Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:27 am Post Number: #1 Post
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Hey everyone, so recently I ran across a type of layout that I hadn't ever seen before or heard of. So I'm curious to find out if anyone here has done it or heard of it before. But before I explain it I'd like to mention that I am NOT a fan of it and I don't advocate using it.

In simple terms the layout say for a righty is basically laid out in reverse/to the right of your pap like for a lefty but the grip is still placed to the left of your pap at whatever your pap measurements are so the balls pin and CG/PSA end up to the right of your pap/VAL.

So say me as a righty I have a pap of 5" right with no vertical measurement...and I wanted to use a dual angle layout like 70x3x30. You would start laying it out just like normal with the line through pin and CG/PSA, but instead of laying out the drill angle to the right, you lay it out to the left and measure out the 3" pin-pap then draw your Val angle out so you get your PAP. Then you lay your grip out like normal to the left of your pap using your pap measurements. So in this example the pin would be 7+ inches to the right of your grip center.

By now some of you I'm sure have figured out one of the big issues with a layout like this, being the fact that you will have your flair reversed, so it comes towards your grip, not away from it. Another issue is weather or not you are able to get the ball to be static legal.

I have seen this layout type twice, each for two different people that are friends and both balls were drilled by the same person. They are both slower speed bowlers, one of them though has very high tilt/low track, and the layout is on an Ebonite cyclone for him...and because his tilt is so high/low track he does not hit any gripping holes and the ball actually rolls fairly well for him and it does have a large and deep weight hole to the right to make it static legal. The other one is for a guy with more "standard" tilt/track height specs and is on a Hyroad...that ball does roll over his thumb badly quite often which I expected as soon as I saw the ball.

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 Post subject: Re: Oddball layout
 Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 7:28 am Post Number: #2 Post
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As far as I can tell, it's a mistake in the layout process. (reversing the direction of the drill angle)

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 Post subject: Re: Oddball layout
 Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:13 pm Post Number: #3 Post
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snick wrote:
As far as I can tell, it's a mistake in the layout process. (reversing the direction of the drill angle)

No this is no "mistake" in the layout process. It was done intentionally by the person that laid out and drilled the balls.

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 Post subject: Re: Oddball layout
 Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:55 pm Post Number: #4 Post
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For symmetricals, the CG position is largely just a static weight legality issue, so that aspect of the layout creates a problem rather than solving one.

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AR: 55º
AT: 7º


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 Post subject: Re: Oddball layout
 Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:29 pm Post Number: #5 Post
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bfweld wrote:
Hey everyone, so recently I ran across a type of layout that I hadn't ever seen before or heard of. So I'm curious to find out if anyone here has done it or heard of it before. But before I explain it I'd like to mention that I am NOT a fan of it and I don't advocate using it.

In simple terms the layout say for a righty is basically laid out in reverse/to the right of your pap like for a lefty but the grip is still placed to the left of your pap at whatever your pap measurements are so the balls pin and CG/PSA end up to the right of your pap/VAL.

So say me as a righty I have a pap of 5" right with no vertical measurement...and I wanted to use a dual angle layout like 70x3x30. You would start laying it out just like normal with the line through pin and CG/PSA, but instead of laying out the drill angle to the right, you lay it out to the left and measure out the 3" pin-pap then draw your Val angle out so you get your PAP. Then you lay your grip out like normal to the left of your pap using your pap measurements. So in this example the pin would be 7+ inches to the right of your grip center.

By now some of you I'm sure have figured out one of the big issues with a layout like this, being the fact that you will have your flair reversed, so it comes towards your grip, not away from it. Another issue is weather or not you are able to get the ball to be static legal.

I have seen this layout type twice, each for two different people that are friends and both balls were drilled by the same person. They are both slower speed bowlers, one of them though has very high tilt/low track, and the layout is on an Ebonite cyclone for him...and because his tilt is so high/low track he does not hit any gripping holes and the ball actually rolls fairly well for him and it does have a large and deep weight hole to the right to make it static legal. The other one is for a guy with more "standard" tilt/track height specs and is on a Hyroad...that ball does roll over his thumb badly quite often which I expected as soon as I saw the ball.

This is the type of situation that lead me to BowlingChat in the first place. One driller that only used one layout for every ball he drilled, another that did whatever he wanted disregarding what the customer wanted and others that think they know how to use the Dual Angle method but miss layouts by 20 or more degrees per angle. The only thing this one particular driller got right on a 5 ball arsenal for a friend of mine were the Pin to PAPs. Now I have my own Pro Sect and layout everything for myself and friends, all the "driller" needs to do is hit the lines.

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 Post subject: Re: Oddball layout
 Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:35 am Post Number: #6 Post
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snick wrote:
For symmetricals, the CG position is largely just a static weight legality issue, so that aspect of the layout creates a problem rather than solving one.

As I said in the original post, static weights is one of the issues you have to deal with when laying a ball out this way. Whether the ball is a sym or asym doesn't matter that much in terms of static weights as with both ball types the cg is still way to the side of the grip center. Something I can't answer is where the PSA would end up at with an asym. A sym it should still end up inbetween the thumb and large weight hole.

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This is the type of situation that lead me to BowlingChat in the first place. One driller that only used one layout for every ball he drilled, another that did whatever he wanted disregarding what the customer wanted and others that think they know how to use the Dual Angle method but miss layouts by 20 or more degrees per angle. The only thing this one particular driller got right on a 5 ball arsenal for a friend of mine were the Pin to PAPs. Now I have my own Pro Sect and layout everything for myself and friends, all the "driller" needs to do is hit the lines.

Coming here for me is also the reason I go to the driller I go to...he doesn't use dual angle layouts. So I just layout the ball out how I want it, he'll add any input he has, and then all he does is drill the holes and do grips/thumb shaping.

Both the balls I mentioned that are drilled this way were drilled by the same guy, he is not my driller though. I just know him and I'm friends with the two guys that have these two balls.

From what I've seen of it, it is pretty much only useable by people that have very high tilt/low track, since it does reverse the direction of ball flair. I can also say that the ebonite cyclone that the one guy has that's drilled like this, is much stronger than I would expect it to be. So I have to assume that this type of layout style, at least on this ball for him, increased the diffs by quite a bit more than normal.

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15.5mph off hand
260-270rev rate
7* tilt
70* rotation


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